# This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". 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Have you noticed?? MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X X[ Welcome to the first issue of the hitech-sim mailing list! I'll write X up my own little blurb later, but wanted to get the list rolling! -Jeff] X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: Tornado: Bug? X XHi! X XI wonder why no one else has posted this before: XI never get a debrief-screen after a Quickstart mission, Xeven if I happen to make it back to my base safely. X XThe (german) manual indicates several times that Xthere should be a debriefing. I sent an e-mail message Xto DI about this but got no answer, yet. X XAlso, while the simulator (the simulated simulator) Xwill indicate friendly fire (FF) incidents, the Xdebriefuing after training missions does not X(a bit unrealistic, I think!) X XUnfortunately, you cannot drive into that open hangar Xon your base (ground object collision). I wanted to Xtry what happens if you eject in there :-) ) X XOtherwise, a fascinating sim IMHO! XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: Tank sim wars... X X X I'm a fan of Microprose's "M1 Tank Platoon"; have been ever since Xit kicked my face in furing my first battle out of training (ambushed by Xmissile-carrying BRDM's, lost all four tanks, was only dimly aware of Xwhat hit me....) X X Does anybody know if Spec Holo's "Tank" is better/worse? X XThings I liked in Tank Platoon: X -the computer can beat me (maybe I'm a dumb Lt?) X -graphics are liveable X -things seem to act in a mostly realistic fashion (I'm no expert) X -friendly forces support you, as arty, air support, and allied X ground troops (which you command, more or less) X XAwaiting your comments, reviews, flames, etc.... 8) X XJames Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Robear XSubject: Patriot Rides Again X X XI just talked to 360, and they have finished the Patriot patch. Some Xweirdness was mentioned, wherein they will send postcards to every Xregistered user, who will have to return the cards to get their updates. XI guess this covers for duplication time. X XThese cards should show up sometime within the next week or 10 days. X X David Pipes X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Tornado. Have you noticed?? X XHi all, XIn regars to Tornado, it is still to me a very good sim, but has anyone else Xnoticed... X1. The other flights don't seem to be harassed by SAM's. It seems I am the Xonlyt visible to them (them SAM's0 The other flights just fly along never Xhaving to dodge any SAM's and screw up thier waypoint timing as I do. X2. There are a heck lot more SAMs then I can handle with just two ALARMS. X3. There are 10 things lighting up the TWI, 2 of which are SAMS. The Alarm XI launch will usually hit something else (8 out of 10) because I don't know Xwhat it is locked onto. Does anyone know how to (quickly) comfirm what Xradar the Alarm is tracking? X4. The ADV is a flying PIG! If it comes to a turning battle I lose even Xwhen configured for max manuever ability. The enemy plane just sits in my Xsix and that is it. I will be doing very little CAP flyin in this sim. X5 The air radar is lousy! I can't tell just what the heck I have locked onto, Xthought I confess I haven't explored every view angle possible. Trying to Xdog fight with two hands and designate the target with the third for a missile Xlauch is at best awkward. X6. Has any figured out a use for the drones? Why do the A10's just seem to Xcircle the same area while flying missions? Will this change in Campaign Xor combat? Or is this just a throw back to useless eye candy ala F15III. X7. Why do my wingmen run over me on departure? I'll be flying along cleaning Xup the aircraft when .....MISSION OVER, collision. WHy don't the wingmen have Xthe brains to pull off? LOrd knows I have to when I start climbing up their X6. X X8. What brain child thought fighting h2h in Tornados would be really all that Xfun when people trun too quickly to allow me to get a lock on with the mouse Xdesignator? X9. Why do allied CAP and SEAD not seem to do too much? X XWell there are the majority of my gripes (there are others). The sim is a Xlot of fun and as soon as I can decipher the mission planner the real Xchallenges of the sim will raise it's ugly head. Does anyone have proven Xtechniques to fix the above? Anyone have similar opions? Note I do everything Xpossible to fly stealthy on engress, it just justn't seem to really help/:-( X XStay Low! XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 1 ]] END-of-issue001 echo x - issue002 sed 's/^X//' >issue002 << 'END-of-issue002' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I2 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 2 X Tue Jul 13 21:37:22 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X rick@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Richard X TANK and M1 TAMK Platoon tenbrins%ccmail@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil X Re:Tornado MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X AIR ACES RAZORSEDGE@delphi.com X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: rick@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Richard Small) XSubject: X X X I, too, have noticed some of the previously mentioned "not cool" Xquirks in Tornado. I have been avoiding multiple plane missions until I get Xmore practice because I'll be on my departure, already under Track mode and with Xthe speed set, and all of a sudden I'll get run over/ side-swiped/ or run over Xone of my people who seemingly stopped dead!!! These guys should also be under computer control, so what gives? X Like a previous poster mentioned, I would also be grateful if I knew Xwhat my ALARM was locking on to! My threat warning lights up with RADARs over X2/3 of the indicator and I have no idea what the ALARM is targetting!! X In regards (again) to computer-controlled planes "flying blind," has Xanyone else had the pleasure of finally completing a mission, rolling to a Xstop, and then getting hit head on by a C-130 coming in to land?? Thought not! X XRick Xrick@mentor.cc.purdue.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: tenbrins%ccmail@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil XSubject: TANK and M1 TAMK Platoon X X X I recently purchased TANK (SH) from Elect. Boutique for X $9.95. I really haven't tried too much, but the training X mission took forever just to reach the enemy. There is no X accellerated time, there is no way to save a mission. You X must complete it or abort. There aren't that many missions, X and most seem to be canned. Graphics aren't bad for 1989 X (EGA). I can see why this is so cheap. Has anyone seen M1 X Tank Platoon for sale lately . Microprose has their X classics out, I bought Silent Service II, recently, but I X have not seen M1 except bundled with the original Gunship. X My commodore version is about as good as that one. I work X for the Army Project Manager for M1 Abrams and would love to X be able to get my hands on M1 by Microprose. If anyone X knows of a source , please let me know. X X X Steve Ten Brink X Steven10b@aol.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Re:Tornado X X X> In regards (again) to computer-controlled planes "flying blind," has X>anyone else had the pleasure of finally completing a mission, rolling to a X>stop, and then getting hit head on by a C-130 coming in to land?? Thought not! X XYep, yep. I had that happen too. Also got hit by one as he was departing Xand I was approaching. "What the heck is that? Is it moving? wait, Jeez Xit is a c 130 coming right at me!".....destroyed view. Ever have a wing Xman run over you while on the tarmac? You just slowed down to hit your brakes, Xhe lands behind you, does not slow down as quickly,...destroyed view. One Xmission last night I stopped on the runway and nearly ran into a C130 sitting Xon the Tarmac awaiting take off clearance. But you have to love landing in Xformation with 6 other planes!! X XStay low XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: RAZORSEDGE@delphi.com XSubject: AIR ACES X X[ Culled from the Falcon3 list --Jeff ] X X[ This isn't really new, but as a reminder to folks, here it is again. X The guy is for real, as I've talked to him. Please call during normal X busness-like hours (Central time, USA, GMT+7) as this is in his home. X --Jeff ] X XThere is a new organization called AIR ACES that is in the process of Xorganizing regionally based squadrons together to play Falcon and other Xflight simulators. XTo Join Dial 1-800-AIR-ACES X XI will upload a file at a later time...before this weekend with more info X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 2 ]] END-of-issue002 echo x - issue003 sed 's/^X//' >issue003 << 'END-of-issue003' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I3 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 3 X Wed Jul 14 19:27:12 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Answers to some Tornado Problems Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X More Tornado Stuff Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X Tornado RWR Question and Possible B Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X Re:TANK and M1 Tank Platoon chaos4 X Re: Aces of the Pacific sean.kerns@sdrc.com (sean kerns) X Tornado weapon views.....great! LOVE@MANADON-ENGINEERING-COLLEGE.AC X AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opinions "Pete Williams" XSubject: Re:TANK and M1 Tank Platoon X X X M1 Tank Platoon has been re-released by a company called Kixx (a subsidiary of XMicroprose, as far as I know) at a bargain basement price in the U.K. For 15 pounds you get the full manual (same as the one for the C64, minus the nice colour Xart work on the cover) and one HD disk !! X X I don't know if it's me, but has anyone noticed that the computer gun-site now Xnolonger tracks any tanks that you're locked onto !! Spacebar now merely updates Xthe range-finder ! X X Does anyone know if Red-Storm-Rising is available for the PC, and if so what Xare the differences between the CD-ROM & disk versions (apart from the media =:-) ) ? X X [ Well, I know that it's available for the PC, but that's about it... -Jeff ] X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Robear XSubject: Tornado weirdness X X XI had an odd thing happen. I tried a training mission (jp233) with Xno damage set and enemies turned on. As I egressed, the local CAP Xpicked me up and swooped in. I went to 650 knots or so, and 200' XAGL. I noticed fire after a bit and went to the outside view. The Xpursuing plane was 1/8 mile or so behind me, also at 200', and Xcontinuously barrel-rolling around my center axis! This continued Xfor quite a while as we zipped over hill and around dale. X XI haven't encountered a plane in real combat mode yet, through Xthoroughly paranoid use of the flight planner. Anyone seen this Xbehavior? X XI think the wingman collision stuff will turn out to be like F3's Xhelicopters - persistant, annoying, but not enough to get me to Xdrop the game :-). X X David Pipes X X------------------------------- X XFrom: sean.kerns@sdrc.com (sean kerns) XSubject: Re: Aces of the Pacific X XSo, X Xany Pacific air war aces out there? I'm also on the Falcon list, and I Xagree it's a much more sophisticated sim, but there's something about Xthe sound of digitized pistone engines, having to lock onto your own Xtargets, and the satisfying thunk of digitized .50 machine guns. XJet fighters will never have that personal aspect. Anybody have any Xreally good missions they want to share, or VCR missions they want to Xtrade? X XSean X Xsean.kerns@sdrc.com (Snake) X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: LOVE@MANADON-ENGINEERING-COLLEGE.AC.UK XSubject: Tornado weapon views.....great! X XHi, X X XI just bought Tornado a few days ago, and have spent a few hours going Xthrough the manual learning all those keys! I am very impressed with the Xquality of the sim so far...much better at low level and ground attack Xthan Falcon 3. X XHowever, the best feature has to be the weapon view [V], especially in a Xloft attack and JP233 run...just awesome! X XMy main problem is knowing what to do after releasing weapons...I want to Xsee if I hit the target, and stop the plane from crashing. At the moment XI approach under autopilot, switch to manual just before I start the Xpull-up to loft the bombs and then release. I switch to weapon view, and Xfor the sake of nothing else to do, hit F7 for the plane to recover Xautopilot track. From my external view, I see the plane heading straight Xover the target just before the bombs impact. Hmmm...not too smart! X XI suppose I should just resist the temptation to assess bomb damage, and Xjust wait to the debrief to check on my performance! X XBTW the ADV behaves like a pig because it was designed to counter the Xold Soviet threat to the UK - high flying Backfire bombers and Bear Xrecon aircraft....it was not thought of as a low-level, fast turning Xdogfighting machine! X X-Tris Love X Xlove@manadon.ac.uk Xtlove@cix.clink.co.uk X100023.2613@compuserve.com X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Pete Williams" XSubject: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opinions X X I'm not able to purchase every new sim that comes out - don't have Xeither the money or the time to learn and play them all. I have been Xworking with F3 for the past 4-6 months, and enjoy the complexities and Xchallenges of the game a lot. X X However, before that I had been playing CYAC, and I miss the slower Xspeed, close in action that the prop fighters can give you (you Xoccasionally get this in F3, but much more rarely). Having always been Xinterested in Naval aviation, AOTP has somehow fascinated me. I'd like to Xhear what other people think of it. X X The other option for me seems to be SVGA Air Warrior. The main problem XI see there is how not to end up with a very expensive addiction - my Xunderstanding is that the game is basically a front end to the GENIE head Xto head arena. I do appreciate the fact that the aerodynamics are supposed Xto be very faithful - that's something I absolutely consider critical. I Xknow other F3 guys (Jim ?) having been doing SVGA-AW lately, and I'd like Xto get some impressions from them. Are the stand alone features any good, Xor am I just buying my first heroin shot? X XThanks; X XPete Williams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: TWI Symbols X X>The manual states that IR missiles will show up on the RWR as a red plus X>while Radar homing missiles will show up as an orange. X X>I've NEVER seen an orange plus at all, although I KNOW that SAM sites fire X>radar homing missiles--I can evade them through the combination of ECM, chaff X>(lots!) and manuevering (HARD!). X X>Anybody know whether this is a bug or not? X X XI have seen orange + desginating incoming missiles on my TWI, usually Xthey come from enemy planes. But as you say, I don't recall seeing them Xcome from ground based SAM's. It might just be that the manual and programers Xswitched them (the colors) as I would think the heat seekers (red????) Xwould be more likely to come from an enemy plane. X XStay Low! X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 3 ]] END-of-issue003 echo x - issue004 sed 's/^X//' >issue004 << 'END-of-issue004' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I4 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 4 X Thu Jul 15 06:03:02 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Hallo from Italy COSULICH@area.trieste.it X Tornado wierdness MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Re: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opin knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X Re: Tornado Weapon's View MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Landings? wonge@sfu.ca X Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X M1 Tank Platoon and Red Storm Risin jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X AOTP COSULICH@area.trieste.it X Simulator Mission tsheehy@ccmailpc.ctron.com X AOTP, uh, not my thing I guess MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Strike Commander MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: COSULICH@area.trieste.it XSubject: Hallo from Italy X XHi, XI've just subscribed this list. I'm interested to simulation, not only XPC-boardgames but flight and military simulators too (particularly WW1 and WW2). XNow I've a couple of questions to do. X1) Could you tell me something about Aces over Europe by dynamix, please? X2) I've seen in a store a game titled Reach for the skies, a simulation Xof the Battle of Britain, as the old BOB by Lucasgames (how many hours Xof fun): now I would like to know how this program is, because I only saw Xthe box of this game and nothing more. I haven't a joystick, so I would like Xto know how its playability is by keyboard or mouse and something about graphic X3) Have you ever heard anything about a game called M4? I know it's a simulation Xof a Sherman tank during the ww2 in Europe, and you can switch between different Xcombat places. XTIA and have a nice day XCiao Guido X XCosulich@area.trieste.it X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Tornado wierdness X X>I had an odd thing happen. I tried a training mission (jp233) with X>no damage set and enemies turned on. As I egressed, the local CAP X>picked me up and swooped in. I went to 650 knots or so, and 200' X>AGL. I noticed fire after a bit and went to the outside view. The X>>>>>pursuing plane was 1/8 mile or so behind me, also at 200', and X>>>>>continuously barrel-rolling around my center axis! This continued X>>>>for quite a while as we zipped over hill and around dale. X X>I haven't encountered a plane in real combat mode yet, through X>thoroughly paranoid use of the flight planner. Anyone seen this X>behavior? X XWith enemies set to ACTIVE I have not seen this. Usually I would be toast Xby the time he got that close :-) What you report is something to ponder Xthough. The Tornado is supposed to be the fastest plane at low alt. If Xthe bandit could stay on your six that close constantly, AND barrel roll, XAND terrain follow I would say that his flight model is not exactly.... Xlegitimate. The manual says a good tactic for alluding enemys is to Xout run them. If they can follow as you say then that hoses that Xdefensive manuever :-( X X>I think the wingman collision stuff will turn out to be like F3's X>helicopters - persistant, annoying, but not enough to get me to X>drop the game :-). X XI agree! There is alot to this sim that is a barrel of fun and a real Xchallenge. It'll stay on my system a long time (at least for now :-) XOne of my favorite things to do is late at night shut off all the lights Xput a small flash light on the key board and fly night missions! They Xhave to have the best night colors of any sim. I wish the other tornados Xhad formation lights such as those in F15III though. X XStay Low! X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opinions X XOk, here's a data point for you. X XI have F3, AOTP, and now AW. I spent an hour or so going head to head Xwith someone (hi Mark) last night playing Air Warrior over the Internet. XWhile I think I prefer the jets, I just can't resist being able to go Xagainst someone else. Too bad my AW flying skills don't match my Xenthusiasm :-(. X XAOTP is a good WWII prop simulator. It has good weapons modelling, a Xreasonable flight model, sort of a campaign mode, good enemy AI, Xgood all around graphics detail, but no head to head capability. X XSVGA AW is first and foremost a multi-person dogfighting sim. This can Xeither be through GEnie with lots of other people, or via a modem with Xanother AW player. The ground detail is spartan. Even the plane Xdetail is spartan. All planes are a solid dark gray but are at least Xsomewhat recognizable. All of the effort in AW goes to making X"correct" flight models for each aircraft and reasonably correct Xmodelling of the weapons. Flight models are always being tweaked in Xthe latest updates. You can fly in a single player fashion so you can Xpractice offline. Enemey AI in this mode is reasonable. X XPersonally, I've stopped playing AOTP. For one, I like the campaigns Xin Falcon better. AOTP just doesn't offer me that much. Now that I Xhave AW, it may even disappear off my hard disk. With AW, I can fly Xthe most of the same planes, but I get to dogfight with others. This Xis very important to me. X XThe cost of becoming a GEnieholic may concern you, so let me give you Xsome additional info. The cost of GEnie AW has dropped by 1/2 and is Xnow $3/hr. In addition, there are a growing number of Internet AW Xplayers who like to fly against each other. This is done using the XIHHD software so you can compete with anyone pretty much anywhere. XThere is also a movement underway to start an Internet AW ladder Xcompetition (hi Bob). If Falcon worked over the Internet using IHHD, Xthen there might be even more of this, but alas, it hasn't worked yet. X XIf you want a prop simulator, you need to ask yourself how bad do you Xwant to dogfight with someone else vs. fly more elaborate missions on Xyour own. For head to head AW seems to be the choice. For playing Xmore detailed missions on your own, then AOTP would be the choice. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Re: Tornado Weapon's View X X>My main problem is knowing what to do after releasing weapons...I want to X>see if I hit the target, and stop the plane from crashing. At the moment X>I approach under autopilot, switch to manual just before I start the X>pull-up to loft the bombs and then release. I switch to weapon view, and X>for the sake of nothing else to do, hit F7 for the plane to recover X>autopilot track. From my external view, I see the plane heading straight X>over the target just before the bombs impact. Hmmm...not too smart! X XHi Tris, XYou'll probably figure this out long before you get my 2 cents :-) XThe object of loft delivery is to avoid the enemy defenses. As you Xpoint out it ain't too smart for the plane to continue flyin over the Xtarget. After you release the weapons, hit N to designate the next Xwaypoint then enable the autopilot. This will send the plane away from X Xor Y so long as the path to the next waypoint is away from enemy defenses! X XMy question is can we toss bomb and hit ourselves!? :-) X X X>BTW the ADV behaves like a pig because it was designed to counter the X>old Soviet threat to the UK - high flying Backfire bombers and Bear X>recon aircraft....it was not thought of as a low-level, fast turning X>dogfighting machine! X XJust another reason why I'll avoid the ADV missions in Tornado! When Xplanning missions I'll be sure the computer gets these! :-) I had an XSU-27 play with my like a cat with a winged bird. Very frustrating. X XStay low! X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: wonge@sfu.ca XSubject: Landings? X X> X> the speed set, and all of a sudden I'll get run over/ side-swiped/ or run over X> one of my people who seemingly stopped dead!!! These guys should also be X> under computer control, so what gives? X> Like a previous poster mentioned, I would also be grateful if I knew X> what my ALARM was locking on to! My threat warning lights up with RADARs over X> 2/3 of the indicator and I have no idea what the ALARM is targetting!! X> In regards (again) to computer-controlled planes "flying blind," has X> anyone else had the pleasure of finally completing a mission, rolling to a X> stop, and then getting hit head on by a C-130 coming in to land?? Thought X> not! X> X> Rick X> rick@mentor.cc.purdue.edu X> X X Well, the thing is, what I don't understand is what you do after you land. XLike do you just stop in the middle of the airstrip, or do you move off Xto the side? X X Don't get me wrong, I don't have Tornado so I wouldn't know what Xyou did or why on earth the Computer controlled aircrafts are landing Xon you, but what I do know is that it isn't usually good to park one's Xplane right on the airstrip, and I'm sure you know that. X X But can someone please tell me whether or not Tornado is really worth Xit? I'm still not sure whether to waste my time/money/energy going Xdown to the local software store and buying it. Sure people have Xbeen ranting and raving about it, but from a Falcon 3.0 perspective Xis it good in terms of money and entertainment worth. X X Thanks.. X X PS: no offense to anyone out there.. X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I3 X X> From: "Pete Williams" X> Subject: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opinions X> X> occasionally get this in F3, but much more rarely). Having always been X> interested in Naval aviation, AOTP has somehow fascinated me. I'd like to X> hear what other people think of it. X XI enjoy AOTP a lot - especially with the "WWII 1946" expansion disk. The Xflight modelling is not the greatest - no spins, for instance. The "you Xare there" feeling is very good. The gunnery modelling is very good. The Xvariety of planes is great. X X> X> The other option for me seems to be SVGA Air Warrior. The main problem X> I see there is how not to end up with a very expensive addiction - my X> understanding is that the game is basically a front end to the GENIE head X> to head arena. I do appreciate the fact that the aerodynamics are supposed X> to be very faithful - that's something I absolutely consider critical. I X XIf you want to get onto GEnie, it's great. Your'll blow a lot of money Xgetting to the point where you can survive long, much less get kills. I've Xprobably spent $20-$30 so far and have only 2 kills. But I'm lasting longer Xand slowly getting better. Once you start, you can't control it. Beware Xthis addiction! On the other hand, as a stand-alone game, it sucks. You Xcan fly around boring scenery and shoot down dumb-as-post computer pilots. XThe standalone mode is strictly a training mode. The third mode is Xhead-to-head. I've only done this once (using the Internet head-to-head Xdaemom). It's a lot of fun, though it has more the feel of a sport than a Xsimulation of a particular war. X X> or am I just buying my first heroin shot? X XYes, you are. X XI'd say that if you can't afford to buy both sims, you can't afford to Xplay AW on GEnie enought to get good at it. Since AOTP is a very good Xsim, and since you have a strong interest in the particular period it Xdeals with, get AOTP. (I'm looking at giving up GEnie AW when my $50 Xcredit is used up - I'll miss it, but it'll save me money.) X XBy the way, AW on GEnie is much better than the Sierra Network's online Xversion of "Red Baron". X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: M1 Tank Platoon and Red Storm Rising X X X[quote on] XFrom: chaos4 XSubject: Re:TANK and M1 Tank Platoon X X X M1 Tank Platoon has been re-released by a company called Kixx (a subsidiary of XMicroprose, as far as I know) at a bargain basement price in the U.K. For 15 pou Xnds you get the full manual (same as the one for the C64, minus the nice colour Xart work on the cover) and one HD disk !! X X I don't know if it's me, but has anyone noticed that the computer gun-site now Xnolonger tracks any tanks that you're locked onto !! Spacebar now merely updates Xthe range-finder ! X X Does anyone know if Red-Storm-Rising is available for the PC X[quote off] X X-In the PC version of M1, the space bar never did more than update the range X(via laser rangefinder); the only "auto-tracking" the sights provided was that y Xou could set the slew rate of the turret - match the rate to the target, lase, a Xnd blaze. X X-Red Storm Rising is available for PC; I've never heard of a CD-ROM version. XAs the original fit handily on two 360K floppies, (not compressed), I can't Ximagine that CD-ROM would be needed unless it were part of a package deal. X XThe game itself is certainly fun; it does have the typical (and somehow avoided Xat M1 T.P.'s higher levels) Microprose "super weapon" for you - your subs can Xusually take at least 3 torp hits before sinking - 3 times too many. 8) X XGraphics are old- EGA, in essence, but the main displays are models of Xpresenting a fair amount of information clearly, if not always in many colors. X XIf you want to command your own (U.S. Navy only) attack sub, with a pretty Xfun and reasonably accurate battle simulation and a (now poor, then quite good) Xcampaign, then you'll probably enjoy it. X XAsk for more details if desired. 8) X XJames Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XJSterrett@aol.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: COSULICH@area.trieste.it XSubject: AOTP X XHi, XI agree with Sean. Those old planes have a particular charm, no radar or Xother modern weapons but you alone against your enemy. I like these games, Xhow long I played Red Baron!. Maybe they are less faithful than Falcon 3 Xor Tornado, but to sit in the cockipt of an Hellcat or a Zero or try Xto sink a flattop on a TBD is another story... XCiao and ...look at your six! XGuido X XCosulich@area.trieste.it X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: tsheehy@ccmailpc.ctron.com XSubject: Simulator Mission X X XI bought Tornado last weekend and have been spending my free time going through Xthe various simulator missions. I am having trouble completing the LGB mission, Xwhere there is one assigned target, which is an airfield. I am supplied with 4 XLGBs, which I am supposed to take out this airport with, but I have no idea what Xarea or specific building I am supposed to target. Obviously there are better Xweapons for taking out the airfield itself, but the LGBs are my only choice. XHas anyone completed this mission successfully? X X X X XTom Sheehy Xtsheehy@ctron.com X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: AOTP, uh, not my thing I guess X XHi All, XI been watching the talk on AOTP. I the interest in giving those who Xare considering buying it a second opinion I will offer my 2 drahma's Xworth. AOTP never "did it" for me. Where I do prefer Jet sims Xmore I can say I also greatly enjoyed Red Baron and Chuck Yeager. XWhere the graphics are nice, the game play to me is lacking. The campaigns Xseem entirely canned, you can not affect the out come of the war (without Xthe 1946 disk), and in general there is a feeling of "something is missing Xhere" The bombing missions (ground) are pretty lame IMO. Ship attacks Xcan be nice though. It is hard to explain, but AOTP spent about a week Xon my HD before I cleared it off for space. I have gotten the patch Xbut I have not acquired the 1946 disk which I have heard has added some to the Xsim. X XMy rememberance is that Dynamix hosed alot of us when AOTP was first released. XBugs, choppy choppy choppy, promised patches that took forever to arrive... XI might have some of that grudge affecting my opinion. I would say avoid XAOTP and see what AOE looks like. Unless I hear rave reviews from many Xpeople I will probably avoid it. X XMy thoughts X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Strike Commander X XHi all, X XDoes anyone know how Strike COmmander is doing in the market? I was Xat the local Elect. Boutique the other day and saw that Origin is now Xsending out flyers on how to get it to work with Double Space. The Xstore personel report it is not selling. I was just wondering how this Xhuge program was doing over all. I would never buy it (HD to small Xsystem too slow (486/25)) but I am just curious to see how the "I love XOrigin vs Origin Blows" wars were shaping up. X XThanks X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 4 ]] END-of-issue004 echo x - issue005 sed 's/^X//' >issue005 << 'END-of-issue005' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I5 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 5 X Thu Jul 15 21:33:35 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X SVGA Air Warrior opus@ihlpf.att.com X Re: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opin rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Re: Strike Commander chaos4 > The other option for me seems to be SVGA Air Warrior. X> X>If you want to get onto GEnie, it's great. Your'll blow a lot of money X>getting to the point where you can survive long, much less get kills. I've X>probably spent $20-$30 so far and have only 2 kills. X XA more cost-effective route would have been to take the Air Warrior Training XAcademy class or attend Tuesday Night Training sessions. I don't know how Xmuch AWTA costs these days, but back when it cost $6/hr to fly, it was a Xbargain. I learned a LOT in that class. X X>But I'm lasting longer and slowly getting better. X XGood! X X>Once you start, you can't control it. Beware this addiction! X XYes, it would be very unwise not to time your sessions. You don't want to Xend up surprised by a multi-hundred dollar visa bill. X X>On the other hand, as a stand-alone game, it sucks. You X>can fly around boring scenery and shoot down dumb-as-post computer pilots. X XPerhaps you're just a very skilled pilot, but let me ask you some questions Xfirst. X X- Are you flying with all realism settings on? The drones always fly under X full realism, regardless of the settings that apply to you (lethality is X the one exception--the drones use what you use). X- Are you taking fuel loads less than 50%? The drones always take 50%, so X if you take less, you are giving yourself a big advantage. X- Do you fly more maneuverable planes than the drones do? The drones' A.I. X is particularly weak in such matchups. Try flying a P-51 or FW190 against X several Ace Spitfires or P-38s if you want somewhat more of a challenge. X My favorite difficult mission is to try to take out two B-17s or A-26s with X two Spitfire escorts, all Ace level, while flying a P-51, FW190, or Bf109. X It's a lot easier now with the increased lethality in version 1.09a, but X before it was extremely challenging. X X>(I'm looking at giving up GEnie AW when my $50 X>credit is used up - I'll miss it, but it'll save me money.) X XJust to clarify, you get four free hours of online time with your monthly X$8.95 membership fee. Additional hours cost $3/hr. I plan on using just my X"free" time for flying to limit the cost. X X>By the way, AW on GEnie is much better than the Sierra Network's online X>version of "Red Baron". X XDon't you mean "AT&T Imagination"? :^) For those who don't know, AT&T and XSierra are about to sign a marketing agreement with Sierra which would replace Xthe TSN name. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: Re: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opinions X X> From: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X> Subject: Re: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opinions X> X> All of the effort in AW goes to making X> "correct" flight models for each aircraft and reasonably correct X> modelling of the weapons. Flight models are always being tweaked in X XAW's realism is focused almost exclusively on the flight modelling. In Xthis, it certainly excels. But, giving you 3x the ammo of the real Xplane, and full range, introduces "unrealisms" just as an inaccurate Xflight model would. Gunnery is more akin to spraying somebody with a water Xhose, and any plane can fly anywhere - the long-legged planes don't get any Xbenefit. Also, why on earth don't they color the planes? Does every plane Xhave to be grey? Somehow, I think real-life pilots are able to generally Xtell which side a plane belongs to. X XAW is not a World War II simulator. It's more like a sport, with no attempt Xmade to make you feel like you're in a particular time and place (AOTP, Xon the other hand puts you in the shoes of a WWII pilot). X X> practice offline. Enemey AI in this mode is reasonable. X XI have to disagree - lately I've been seeing the AI opponents crash a Xlot. If only AW had a mission builder and let you start in the air, Xit would be a 100% better in the offline mode. X X> There is also a movement underway to start an Internet AW ladder X> competition (hi Bob). X XI'd like to hear more about this! X XThere are a few things that really irritate me with AW: Kesmai won't allow Xupdates to be posted anyplace but GEnie (Dynamix, Spectrum, Microprose, etc. Xare much kinder to their customers in this regard); you don't get cockpit Xart for all the planes (come on, Kesmai - this is a retail product - it Xshould be complete); you can't bomb unless you're on GEnie; it's the ONLY Xgame I've got that needs a boot disk on my system. X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: chaos4 XSubject: Re: Strike Commander X X X Seems to be selling quite well over here in the UK, I guess that's down Xto the fact that MSDOS6 hasn't been released until recently !! I've never Xhad any problems with it's coexistance with Stacker 3.0, let's hope the up and Xcoming Privateer lives up to SC ! X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: A320 Airbus (was: Re: Strike Commander) X XHi! X X>Does anyone know how Strike COmmander is doing in the market? I was X>at the local Elect. Boutique the other day and saw that Origin is now X>sending out flyers on how to get it to work with Double Space. The X>store personel report it is not selling. I was just wondering how this X>huge program was doing over all. I would never buy it (HD to small X>system too slow (486/25)) but I am just curious to see how the "I love X>Origin vs Origin Blows" wars were shaping up. X XI think we should not forget that quality of a game and its success Xin the market place are two separate things (most people buy it, and then Xthey see what they've got). X XThe ultimate proof: "Airbus A320", which sells quite good here in XGermany (at some shops even better than F-15III), at about the same Xprice. X XBut it is sooooo bad! If there is a "worst flight-sim currently Xsold" award, I hearby nominate "A320": X XExcept in the intro, the sim runs in a 320 x 200 pixels 16 (sic!!) Xcolors mode (TORNADO, Falcon 3 etc use a 256 color mode). This is Xworse than EGA! X XBest of all: At least on my machine (486 DX-33), the sim runs Xin slow motion: A minute on the simulated dashboard takes X67 seconds real time! X XIn A320-land, there are no hills, mountains, buildings, forests etc, Xjust runways, taxiways, land and water. Someone was so kind to paint Xa grid on A320-land so you do notice that the plane is moving. That Xis, unless you are over the overcast cloud layer. There are no Xsingle clouds, so you just can not see that the plane is moving. XThe thick manual (it's so thick because they used a *very* Xbig font) tells you to check the dashboard clock if you are in doubt Xwhether the sim is paused! X XThe cockpit instruments (especially the NAVaid instr.) look a bit Xlike Cessna style instruments and have no resemblance to the "real Xthing". X XYou don't have control over the rudders, but then, you don't need Xthat because there is no wind in A320-land. X XThere are a few reasons why this program sells at all: X X-it claims to be "developed in cooperation with Lufthansa and X Airbus Industries" X-it has a nice, *heavy* package. X-it has misleading system requirements: 386 CPU, 256 color VGA card X A320 simply doesn't use these resources X XThere's a USA-edition of A320 out now. Is it better than the Europe XEdition (can hardly be worse, I guess)? X Xso long XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: chaos4 XSubject: Re: Hallo from Italy X XPersonally, I wouldn't buy Reach for The Skies (had I not already made the Xmistake and bought it), it ranks alongside Blue Max and Knights of The Sky Xas one of my most disappointing buys !! Battle of Britain which I got free with Xmy mouse was superior in gameplay allowing detailed campaigns. It would Xprobably be a good idea to wait till Aces over Europe comes out, and then Xyou could make up your mind. I've already got AOE on my wish-list !! ;-) X XMost Rowan games allow you to play either with Joystick, Keyboard or Mouse, and Xthis is no exception. This game suffers from the usual fast processor, slow Xjoystick port problem, which means that if you move the stick violently then Xcentre the stick there's a good chance the plane will start to bank !! Why Xis it that some companies like Spectrum-Holobyte seem to overcome this Xproblem (Falcon3) and other companies like Sierra/Dynamix (Red Baron/AOTP) Xseem to neglect this problem and only address it later with patches (Red Baron) X ? Reachs graphics are 'fair', they appear to use gouraud shading for the Xaircraft but have neglected ground detail in favour of trhe aircraft. The game Xruns fairly fast and smooth on my 486/33, and haven't experienced and bugs as of Xyet. On the whole I'd say the game was worth about 50% of it's overall price Xtag. Think I'll load up BOB again... now where'd I put my BattleHawks1942.. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: AOTP/SVGA-AW - Request for Opinions X X> AW's realism is focused almost exclusively on the flight modelling. In X> this, it certainly excels. But, giving you 3x the ammo of the real X> plane, and full range, introduces "unrealisms" just as an inaccurate X> flight model would. X XTrue, the 3x ammo is for the sake of game play (dogfighting). However, Xthe Lethality reality mode is supposed to fix that. It reduces the hit Xbubble size, lowers your ammo load and increases the damage they cause. XThe reality/test arenas are supposedly expirementing with this stuff right Xnow. You can fly that way offline or h2h all you want. I did so Tue. night. X X> Gunnery is more akin to spraying somebody with a water X> hose, and any plane can fly anywhere - the long-legged planes don't get any X> benefit. X XTrue, the long range escorts don't get winded at all. Nor do they get Xused as they should. Most of them end up B&Z down to the furball Xaltitude. A P-51 should be quite comfortable at 20k', but nobody Xdogfights at that altitude. What altitude do the bombers travel at? XSeems like they would be a great incentive to drag a fight up to the X'51s regime. X X> Also, why on earth don't they color the planes? Does every plane X> have to be grey? Somehow, I think real-life pilots are able to generally X> tell which side a plane belongs to. X XThe side a plane is on is not by it's type (unless you're doing a Xhistorical scenario). You might be in a P-38 and your wingman be in a XZero. The country a plane belongs to is determined by labels appearing Xon the side of the screen. Again, this is not very real, but it's Xthere for game play. X X> AW is not a World War II simulator. It's more like a sport, with no attempt X> made to make you feel like you're in a particular time and place (AOTP, X> on the other hand puts you in the shoes of a WWII pilot). X XThink of it more like Red Flag, Top Gun, or dogfighting with your Xsquadron buddies to keep your skills up. It's about as close as you're Xgoing to get to the real thing unless you go to one of the full motion Xsimulator places (e.g. Air Combat, Arlington, TX, $35/30 min + Xtraining) or one of the ACM flight schools (e.g. Air Combat USA, XIrvine, CA, $600/2 hrs) and it's cheaper. See the flight_sim wais Xlibrary if you want more info on these. X X> > practice offline. Enemey AI in this mode is reasonable. X> X> I have to disagree - lately I've been seeing the AI opponents crash a X> lot. If only AW had a mission builder and let you start in the air, X> it would be a 100% better in the offline mode. X XThe only thing I can think of here is that they are running out of Xfuel. I have seen them go down on their own as well. However, that's Xonly after they've been flying around a bit. X X> > There is also a movement underway to start an Internet AW ladder X> > competition (hi Bob). X> X> I'd like to hear more about this! X XBob is collecting rules for a ladder competition and putting a set Xtogether for us to use. I suppose the competition will take place over Xthe Internet using the IHHD software, but I don't think it'll be Xmandatory to use the IHHD stuff if you want to pay long distance. He Xcurrently has rules for one AW ladder being used on a BBS somewhere and Xsome general Falcon ladder rules from CI$. I don't know if he's on Xthis list or not, but if he is, he can add more. If not, then I'll try Xto keep people posted. X X> There are a few things that really irritate me with AW: Kesmai won't allow X> updates to be posted anyplace but GEnie (Dynamix, Spectrum, Microprose, etc. X> are much kinder to their customers in this regard); you don't get cockpit X> art for all the planes (come on, Kesmai - this is a retail product - it X> should be complete); you can't bomb unless you're on GEnie; it's the ONLY X> game I've got that needs a boot disk on my system. X XI agree that the policies are a bit restrictive. However, I've been able Xto practice using the bomb sights in offline, just not drop any bombs. XIt's not as much fun, but I was able to do it. I could also drive the Xvehicles around, but wasn't able to actually fire. X XMy understanding is that you can get the cockpit art if you want to down Xload the X MBs worth of data for the cockpit art of all the planes. I Xdon't mind too much that they didn't include it all. I'll just get the Xart for the planes I fly. X XI don't use a boot disk, but I do have some .BAT files that diddle with Xmy AUTOEXEC.BAT file. I do use a boot disk for Falcon, AOTP, and F15SEIII Xthough since it requires mods to both config.sys and autoexec.bat in my Xcase. It's just one of the things that we all love about DOS :-(. X XJim X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: M4 Tank simulator rumors.... X X X Microprose made some noises about releasing an M4 (Sherman) tank Xsim along the general lines of M1 Tank Plt; these noises were made a while Xago, though, and I don't think the project is currently active. X XJames Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) XSubject: Answers to Misc. Questions in Digest V1 : I4 X XScott in WV writes: X X: The manual says a good tactic for alluding enemys is to out run them. If X: they can follow as you say then that hoses that defensive manuever :-( X XI've outrun enemies quite a few times by tucking in the wings and using Xreheat to zoom away. This tactic DOES work. A caveat, however--at high Xspeed with 67 degree wingsweep, flying treetop level is risky... X X: There is alot to this sim that is a barrel of fun and a real challenge. X XI agree! It's the best bombing sim I've ever had. I've spent hours and Xhours at it and have finally reached the point where I can out-manuever SAMs, Xaccomplish my objectives, and land (damaged, occasionally). X X: One of my favorite things to do is late at night shut off all the lights X: put a small flash light on the key board and fly night missions! X XGreat idea! I'll have to try that. I enjoy the night missions, too. X X: They have to have the best night colors of any sim. I wish the other X: tornados had formation lights such as those in F15III though. X XFunny thing, I was just thinking the same last night.... X X------------------------------- X Xtsheehy@ccmailpc.ctron.com writes: X X: I bought Tornado last weekend and have been spending my free time going X: through the various simulator missions. I am having trouble completing the X: LGB mission, where there is one assigned target, which is an airfield. I X: am supplied with 4 LGBs, which I am supposed to take out this airport with, X: but I have no idea what area or specific building I am supposed to target. X: Obviously there are better weapons for taking out the airfield itself, but X: the LGBs are my only choice. Has anyone completed this mission X: successfully? X XYes. You have to hit the Hardened Air Shelters to the left of the runway. XUse the zoom function of the TIALD (page 230 in the manual). BTW, the Xshelters are camouflaged (if I remember correctly) and are a shade of green. XThey should look like green lumps with driveways. :-) X X-- X X Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh? X Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117 X XLigneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous Xstructure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous. X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 5 ]] END-of-issue005 echo x - issue006 sed 's/^X//' >issue006 << 'END-of-issue006' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I6 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 6 X Fri Jul 16 15:46:04 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: A320 Airbus by Thallion hoppie@kub.nl (JeroenHoppenbrouwers X Re: Simulator Mission (I4,I5) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Re: A320 (I 5) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Regarding Tornado LGB Mission MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : opus@ihlpf.att.com X Strike commander on CD-rom ? Rolf Velthuys X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: hoppie@kub.nl (JeroenHoppenbrouwers) XSubject: Re: A320 Airbus by Thallion X XFirst, I agree to nominate it the worst flight sim currently available. XAnd yes, I bought it, too :-( X XOne thing, however, A320 excells in: the PAPERWARE. Not the manual, which Xis the straight Amiga version (Commodore key and all!), but the real XHigh-Alt Enroute Charts and ILS Approach Charts. They just bought older Xcopies of the original Jeppesen stuff. This material is wonderful. XYou can easily fly all over Europe on VORs and go down on all ILS beams Xavailable. So, their database technology certainly is on par with the rest Xof the flight sims. Unfortunately there's no approach control or other Xtraffic, so you can come in low and perpendicular to the runway and just Xdo a high-G turn onto final :-) X XAnd since in a commercial airliner you are above clouds 99% of the time Xanyway, lack of ground doesnt't bother me very much. In short: A320 is Xquite great for practising your IFR skills. X XBut for the rest, it STINKS. Especially the PC implementation which is XUGLY, UNUSABLE (stupid and non-working key/joystick/mouse) and TOY-LIKE. XHmmm, I should try the Amiga version. May make me feel less childish. XIs there a Nintendo version? X X XJeroen X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Simulator Mission (I4,I5) X XHi, X Xin Issue 5 Joel Murray wrote: X>Yes. You have to hit the Hardened Air Shelters to the left of the runway. X>Use the zoom function of the TIALD (page 230 in the manual). BTW, the X>shelters are camouflaged (if I remember correctly) and are a shade of green. X>They should look like green lumps with driveways. :-) X XDid You ever succeded doing a multiple target-run on these? I assign one Xshelter as a target, release one bomb, wait 4 to 5 seconds, assign then the Xnext target, release the next bomb and so on. But when I stay with the TALD Xon the last target, I have to watch that all 4 bombs hit that last one:-( X XAnother point of this mission is, that I am told in the briefing that the Xwaether is "clear" but in most cases there is a big cloud right over the Xairfield. Has anyone else noticed that? X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X"Wir fliegen alles - vom U-boot bis zum Duesenjaeger" X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: A320 (I 5) X XHallo Heinz-Bernd, X Xin issue 5 You wrote X>[...] X>Except in the intro, the sim runs in a 320 x 200 pixels 16 (sic!!) X>colors mode (TORNADO, Falcon 3 etc use a 256 color mode). This is X>worse than EGA! X XI think, that's because the sim was originally written for Amiga. I've seen Xit on an Amiga 500 once and the graphics were better than on PC! X X>[... comments about A320-land ...] X XThe main-intention of the sim is to practise intrument-flight (I think it's Xsomewhere mentioned in the manual). You get 4 high-altitude-charts of Europe Xand a booklet with ILS-approach-charts of nearly 200 European airports with Xthe game. Both are released by Jeppesen who print these for the "real" air- Xlines. XWhen You play the game, most of Your time is spent with setting up the flight- Xplan, i.e. looking for a route on the high-altitude-charts and picking up XVOR/NDB-frequences that lie on Your route. Once You are airborne the main-task Xis to remain on the route by managing the frequences. XIf You think that Tornado flies like a pig You havn't flown an A320. His Xairborne behavior is like a sea-cow (the flight model was done in associoation Xwith the Deutsche Lufthansa ;-). X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X"Wir fliegen alles - vom U-Boot bis zum Duesenjaeger" X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Regarding Tornado LGB Mission X Xin Issue 5 Joel Murray wrote: X>Yes. You have to hit the Hardened Air Shelters to the left of the runway. X>Use the zoom function of the TIALD (page 230 in the manual). BTW, the X>shelters are camouflaged (if I remember correctly) and are a shade of green. X>They should look like green lumps with driveways. :-) X X{Did You ever succeded doing a multiple target-run on these? I assign one X{shelter as a target, release one bomb, wait 4 to 5 seconds, assign then the X{next target, release the next bomb and so on. But when I stay with the TALD X{on the last target, I have to watch that all 4 bombs hit that last one:-( X X{Another point of this mission is, that I am told in the briefing that the X{waether is "clear" but in most cases there is a big cloud right over the X{airfield. Has anyone else noticed that? X X>Joerg "Dancer" Stenger X XHi Joerg, XYes I have completed that missions several times, it is a favorite to show Xfriends some of the neat things Tornado has. The thing to remember is that Xyour plane has only 1 laser designator. Lock on to your first target and Xrelease bomb 1. Without moving the lock wait 4 -5 sec intervals and release Xbombs 2,3 and 4. In the intervals you could be getting your lock fined up Xby zooming in a little. IT *really* helps to just hold down the left Xkey and move the mouse with the L lock symbol showing, don't break lock. XOk, you'll see your first bomb hit, now quickly move the designator over Xthe next bunker (hold left mouse button down while moving) and watch the Xsecond bomb hit, then quickly move the designator over the third bunker..etc XI have started to use even longer bomb intervals like 6 to 7 sec to make Xmoving the designator less frantic. X XI can't say I have ever seen the cloud over the airfield. Is realistic Xweather an option in the customize boxes? It slips my mind. At least it Xwould suggest some weather variability between the missions! :-) X XStay Low!! X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: opus@ihlpf.att.com XSubject: Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I5 X Xrogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) writes: X>AW's realism is focused almost exclusively on the flight modelling. In X>this, it certainly excels. But, giving you 3x the ammo of the real X>plane, and full range, introduces "unrealisms" just as an inaccurate X>flight model would. X XIt sounds like you only fly on page 870. Why don't you try page 869, Xthe full realism real-time arena? There, ammo loads are realistic. X X>Gunnery is more akin to spraying somebody with a water X>hose, X XWith realistic ammo loads, you'll run out of ammo very quickly if you do this. X X>and any plane can fly anywhere - the long-legged planes don't get any X>benefit. X XHave you read anything about the "Kursk II" scenario coming up? They're Xgoing to use a new map that's absolutely enormous. The short range of Xthe Bf109s and Yak-9s that will fly in the scenario will definitely have Xto be taken into account. X XMany veteran Air Warriors believe the future of the game will be in the Xscenarios, not in the main arenas. They plan on running an ongoing series Xof historically-based (usually) scenarios, close enough together that they Xcould pretty much replace the arenas for those who prefer them. X X>Also, why on earth don't they color the planes? Does every plane X>have to be grey? Somehow, I think real-life pilots are able to generally X>tell which side a plane belongs to. X XMany people have requested this, but Kesmai resists, possibly because the Xresults would look pretty garish if the same colors were used as for the Xicons. BTW, the icons tell you which side a plane belongs to once you get Xclose enough. Do you really think you could do visual IFF at over three miles Xin real life? X X>AW is not a World War II simulator. It's more like a sport, with no attempt X>made to make you feel like you're in a particular time and place (AOTP, X>on the other hand puts you in the shoes of a WWII pilot). X XAgain, the main arena is like this, but the scenarios are completely different. XBlows away AOTP. X X>> Enemy AI in this mode is reasonable. X> X>I have to disagree - lately I've been seeing the AI opponents crash a X>lot. X XHmmm...what version are you running? The only time I see them crash Xis when they have control damage or when I trick them into split-S'ing Xfrom too low an altitude. X X>If only AW had a mission builder and let you start in the air, X>it would be a 100% better in the offline mode. X XI agree. Try some bomber + escort intercept missions, though. I think Xthey're a lot of fun. X X>There are a few things that really irritate me with AW: Kesmai won't allow X>updates to be posted anyplace but GEnie (Dynamix, Spectrum, Microprose, etc. X>are much kinder to their customers in this regard); X XVery valid complaint. X X>you don't get cockpit X>art for all the planes (come on, Kesmai - this is a retail product - it X>should be complete); X XThis would have added quite a few disks to the box, as the artwork is very Xlarge, even when compressed. I think this was a marketing decision by XKonami that Kesmai had little say in. I'm not making excuses, just giving Xsome background information. X X>you can't bomb unless you're on GEnie; X XThis has been requested, and may be provided someday, but don't hold your Xbreath. X X>it's the ONLY game I've got that needs a boot disk on my system. X XVersion 1.09a runs fine under QEMM 6.02 with my Hyperdisk cache and a couple Xof other miscellaneous TSRs. It even runs under Windows 3.1 with a negligible Xperformance hit (full screen only)! The older versions, 1.00-1.06, use Xa different DOS extender that did not get along with QEMM too well. I believe Xthe new one is DPMI compliant. Kesmai went through a lot of trouble to switch XDOS extenders; I believe they did it to improve compatibility. X Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca (James Sterrett) writes: X>Subject: M4 Tank simulator rumors.... X> X> Microprose made some noises about releasing an M4 (Sherman) tank X>sim along the general lines of M1 Tank Plt; these noises were made a while X>ago, though, and I don't think the project is currently active. X XThey are actively working on a WWII tank sim called "Across the Rhine." It Xis mentioned often on the MPS BBS by MPH representatives, so I know this is Xtrue. There are also tentative plans to do an upgraded M1 Tank Platoon X(YES!) after the WWII sim is done. I think they said the upgrade might Xbe done in 1995. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Rolf Velthuys XSubject: Strike commander on CD-rom ? X XHi, X XI haven't bought strike commander yet. Not because I'm not interested Xin the game, but because of the amount of disk space it occupies. In Xfact, I'm waiting for the CD-rom version, which, if i remember Xcorrectly, is supposed to be released a couple of months after the Xinitial release of the disks version. Does anybody have more info Xon strike commander on CD-rom ? X XRolf X Xvelthuys@cs.ubc.ca X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 6 ]] END-of-issue006 echo x - issue007 sed 's/^X//' >issue007 << 'END-of-issue007' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I7 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 7 X Sun Jul 18 08:27:24 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Air Warrior Scenarios cooper@grebyn.com (Gary Cooper) X Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I Dave 'Philios' Prentice Many veteran Air Warriors believe the future of the game will be in the X> scenarios, not in the main arenas. They plan on running an ongoing series X> of historically-based (usually) scenarios, close enough together that they X> could pretty much replace the arenas for those who prefer them. X XThis will be the reason that I will get into AW, but I have a question Xor two; X X1. During these historic scenarios, will there be two countries or the Xobligatory three? Or will, say, "A" and "C" ally to represent the Xnumerical superiority of the Sov's? X X2. Will the countries be limited to a single sides A/C - ie., Country X"A" flies Soviet Yak's while "B" flies for the "B"undesLuftwaffe? X XI will, I imagine, play around in the arenas from time to time, but will Xspend most of my time (money...) in the historical scenarios. X X Xgary cooper (not the dead one) cooper@grebyn.com X X"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dis-" X - General John Sedgwick; Spotsylvania Courthouse X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Dave 'Philios' Prentice XSubject: Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I4 X X XWell I've been sitting here catching all of the chatter about this SVGA AW Xgame that you can play on GEnie or internet. I have considerable experience Xwith various flight sims, but I'm fairly rusty since I had to delete F3 for Xspace before OFT was even released. *sigh* Anyways. . . X XWhat I want to know is how to play AW on internet. What do I need besides Xthe game and the hardware to run it on my end? I have dialup access to a XVMS machine. I can connect at speeds up to 9600, which is a major upgrade Xto the machine's hardware. USed to be we could only connect at 1200. *laugh* X XWhat does it take to connect to the IHHD daemon with AW? Can I just forget it Xwith VMS ior even with dialup? What do you folks that use the daemon use to Xconnect? If you need to have slip or tcp/ip connection to the internet then XI must admit that all this talk about IHHD is pretty much a waste of space. XHow many users out there would be able to play if they needed major hardware Xlike that? Up here the only way that I could get access like that is to Xlease my *OWN* T3 line, and that just *AIN'T* gonna happen any time in the Xnear future. *laugh* X XPatiently waiting a response. . . *smile* X XIncidentally, what kind of hardware *is* needed to run AW adequately on my Xend, assuming that all I wanted to do is play it HtH via modem? X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 7 ]] END-of-issue007 echo x - issue008 sed 's/^X//' >issue008 << 'END-of-issue008' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I8 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 8 X Mon Jul 19 11:08:27 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Air Warrior Stuff opus@ihlpf.att.com X RE Airwar ala Rob MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Ejecting in Tornado rick@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Richard X Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X New Spectrum Holobyte BBS Kris Ong X joystick problem with Tornado Wilson Chiu opus@ihlpf.att.com (Robin Kim) writes: X>> Many veteran Air Warriors believe the future of the game will be in the X>> scenarios, not in the main arenas. X> X>This will be the reason that I will get into AW, but I have a question X>or two; X> X>1. During these historic scenarios, will there be two countries or the X>obligatory three? Or will, say, "A" and "C" ally to represent the X>numerical superiority of the Sov's? X XThere are usually just two countries. The number and types of planes on each Xside is strictly controlled. X X>2. Will the countries be limited to a single sides A/C - ie., Country X>"A" flies Soviet Yak's while "B" flies for the "B"undesLuftwaffe? X XThe scenario setup is much more restrictive, from what I've seen. It's Xnot just "side B flies only German planes," but "side B has 8 FW190s and X12 Bf109s available, which can take off from these airfields no earlier Xthan this point in time, and can land for refueling and rearming at these Xairfields." Each scenario has a unique point system for determining Xvictory, much like board wargames. So many points for fighters destroyed, Xbombers destroyed, bomb targets damaged or destroyed, bonuses for hitting Xall designated bomb targets, etc. It's quite involved. The most important Xfacet of scenario play is that you almost always have just one life to live. XIf you get shot down, you're out of the scenario. It makes scenarios Xpretty intense, from what people have told me. X XEach side usually has a commanding officer (CO) who works out the master Xplan, with input from all members of that side. Scenarios are repeated Xa number of times, so different plans can be tried as time goes on. X X>I will, I imagine, play around in the arenas from time to time, but will X>spend most of my time (money...) in the historical scenarios. X XYou should learn how to fight in the main arena or under one of the Xtraining programs. If you go into scenarios cold, you will only be buying Xfrustration. X X---- X XDave 'Philios' Prentice writes: X X>Well I've been sitting here catching all of the chatter about this SVGA AW X>game that you can play on GEnie or internet. I have considerable experience X>with various flight sims, but I'm fairly rusty since I had to delete F3 for X>space before OFT was even released. *sigh* Anyways. . . X XDon't worry, F3 experience wouldn't help you much in Air Warrior anyway. X X[IHHD questions deleted, since I'm sure Jim Knutson will answer them] X X>Incidentally, what kind of hardware *is* needed to run AW adequately on my X>end, assuming that all I wanted to do is play it HtH via modem? X XYou should have at least a 386/20 (I'd recommend at least a 33MHz 386) with Xan SVGA card and 4MB of memory. H2H play neither needs nor benefits from Xgreater than 2400 baud links. X X---- X XI'd like to say a few words about the condescending attitude that many XAir Warrior players seem to hold for other PC flight sims. I'm sure it comes Xoff as arrogance and snobbery. Sure, there's some amount of that (not from XME of course :^), but it has a good basis in reality. The experienced XAir Warrior players have seen the same story time and time again. A new Xguy comes in who's incredibly hot stuff with Aces of the Pacific and XRed Baron and Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, and Falcon 3.0, and thinks that Xhe'll be able to kick butt in Air Warrior. It almost never happens. XCurrently, the only games that give you a jump start in Air Warrior in my Xopinion are Fighter Duel and Fighter Duel Pro for the Amiga, and flying XSVGA Air Warrior offline against the computer or H2H against other people. XEven with hours of experience in these sims, you'll still get toasted your Xfirst few times up in the online arenas. X XWhen I tell someone who seems to have a lot of self-confidence that he or Xshe will just be a beginner in Air Warrior, I don't mean anything personal Xby it. I'm just drawing on a lot of historical precedents to predict that Xperson's initial performance. There are some exceptions, of course, but Xthey are very very rare. Also, most everyone gets good eventually. It Xjust takes time to learn and adjust. Few people end up as experts, Xhowever. X XAnd why do I say anything in the first place? Because its a lot of fun to Xtry to pop a hot shot's bubble, watch him protest, and know that you'll Xalmost definitely be proven right in the end! X XFor the record, I'm just above novice level in Air Warrior, and I have Xspent many hours playing and enjoying AOTP and F3. See? I'm neither a Xsnob nor arrogant! :^) X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: RE Airwar ala Rob X X X>I'd like to say a few words about the condescending attitude that many X>Air Warrior players seem to hold for other PC flight sims. I'm sure it comes X>off as arrogance and snobbery. Sure, there's some amount of that (not from X>ME of course :^), but it has a good basis in reality. The experienced X>Air Warrior players have seen the same story time and time again. A new X>guy comes in who's incredibly hot stuff with Aces of the Pacific and X>Red Baron and Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, and Falcon 3.0, and thinks that X>he'll be able to kick butt in Air Warrior. It almost never happens. X>Currently, the only games that give you a jump start in Air Warrior in my X>opinion are Fighter Duel and Fighter Duel Pro for the Amiga, and flying X>SVGA Air Warrior offline against the computer or H2H against other people. X>Even with hours of experience in these sims, you'll still get toasted your X>first few times up in the online arenas. X X {other comments deleted} X XRob Xopus @ihlpf.att.com X XSome very good comments. I tend to fly AW about once a week for about 45 Xminutes at a pop. Why? several reasons actually; X1. Money X2. Time X3. Money X4. Playability and frustration. X XThat reason number 4 is the one that pertains (in a way) to what Rob has to Xsay. From what I have seen over the last 6 months or so is that Air Warrior Xand those who fly is really set up as a large fraternity (though not Xintentionally). I have gone flying for periods of times and had *nobody* Xreturn my radio messages regarding what is up. This is not to be construde Xas "unfriendliness" from what I have seen, just that everyone on line usually Xknows each other. Here enters frustration. From what I have found, the Xmain arena is *not* the place to make new flying buddies. You can fly around Xas a lone wolf and maybe get a kill or two, but generally when you see all the Xchatter on the radio you might tend to feel left out (as I sometimes do). As Xyou fly as a lone wolf, you tend to get your tail waxxed a good bit. Here Xenters playability. It isn't much fun to pay the money just to fly into Xa hive of B's or C's and get shot down. Even the best pilot will take some Xtime to get used to that half time connection AW uses (at times you feel Xlike you are flying through jello and only the g meter tells you your are Xturning hard). X XSo how do you get around this? Go to the informal or formal training X"academies". Here even the most crusty flier is interested in helping you Xout with all sorts of tips. You get to meet other fliers (while they are Xnot trying to execute an airfeild strike) and actually talk about Xhow to fly and others. Then after a little while you get known and are Xinvited to fly missions. When in the arena people you know are there and Xviola! Your visa bill sky rockets as you are now a member of the X"fraternity" and can actually relate to others. X XSo as Rob says, usually the reason AW pilots might seem snobbish is just Xbecause there is a learning curve and a relationship based on mutual Xexperiences that tends to bind them together. They "usually" talk to anyone Xand help out inthe learning when in the academies and conference rooms. X You just can't expect to jump right into their "world" and be one of them X without some time being invested. X XI still tend to fly lone wolf only because I don't have the time and money Xto really get involved with it now. X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rick@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Richard Small) XSubject: Ejecting in Tornado X X X X Has there been any mention on why you can't eject in Tornado? Any Xtime I get hit by a SAM, hit a building (my pre-made flightplan flew me Xthrough a cooling tower!), or whatever, a canned crash scene takees over and XI can't eject!! Any ideas?? X XRick rick@mentor.cc.purdue.edu X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I6 X X> From: opus@ihlpf.att.com X> Subject: Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I5 X> XIn response to my comments on AW gunnery, opus writes: X> It sounds like you only fly on page 870. Why don't you try page 869, X> the full realism real-time arena? There, ammo loads are realistic. X XNobody every seems to be in the realism theatre when I list the theatres - Xis there a time when I'm likely to find someone there? Does the realism Xtheatre include full lethality? The other night I bounced a P-38 in an FW190 - XI had him in my sights and the trigger pulled for 5-10 seconds - seeing hits Xthe whole time. He didn't go down! According to everything I've read, this Xkind of fire (yes, I stil had cannon ammo) should have obliterated him, just Xas it does in full realism combat offline. This sort of thing distorts the Xwhole game for me, despite the obvious realism of AW in may other respects. X X> icons. BTW, the icons tell you which side a plane belongs to once you get X> close enough. Do you really think you could do visual IFF at over three miles X> in real life? X XNot at all, but matching icons and dots is not a model of anthing in the Xreal world. I'd like to see the black dots change to colored dots at some Xrealistic distance. I also think the range readings next to the icons give Xtoo much information to the player. X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Kris Ong XSubject: New Spectrum Holobyte BBS X XThe new number for the SH BBS is 510-522-8909 X X- -- Xkrismon@quack.kfu.com An eye for an eye will make the Xkris.ong@rose.com whole world blind. XProdigy: GRTV13B -MLK Jr. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Wilson Chiu XSubject: joystick problem with Tornado X XHi there, X XJust bought Tornado, what a fine game! Takes a while to get use to but Xthen it's excellent, just as they say in the manual - you will need a Xfew hours of intensive use to get into it. X XAnyhow, I don't seem to be able to use the joystick for Tornado! To be Xmore precise, Tornado doesn't seem to clibrate it properly, if I get Xone axis right (left and right), I can't do anything with up & down, Xand if I hit 'y', the plane just goes into a horrible roll.........Has Xanyone else experienced this? X XMy setup: X Warrior 5 joystick X 486 DX50 X ISA Bus X Sound Blaster Pro X X tried coneecting joystick to either SBPro port or X games I/O port, same result. X Xthanks in advance for any advice!! X X XWilson X X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: Re: A320 X XHi! X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger wrote in response to my criticism on X"A320 Airbus": X X>The main-intention of the sim is to practise intrument-flight (I think it's X>somewhere mentioned in the manual). X XYes you are right. However, without wind, instrument flight is not a Xreal challenge IMHO. X X X>When You play the game, most of Your time is spent with setting up the flight- X>plan, i.e. looking for a route on the high-altitude-charts and picking up X>VOR/NDB-frequences that lie on Your route. Once You are airborne the main-task X>is to remain on the route by managing the frequences. X XThis is getting boring quickly! Nobody complains if you violate Xyour flightplan, as long as you land on the right airport. XYou can chose your route, altitude, speed. No ATC! X X>If You think that Tornado flies like a pig You havn't flown an A320. His X>airborne behavior is like a sea-cow (the flight model was done in associoation X>with the Deutsche Lufthansa ;-). X XBig ;-) ! O.k., the credits section mentions someone from Lufthansa, Xbut that may be all there is to it. IMHO, the flightmodel isn't too Xgood. Try max airspeed at FL 330! I recently traveled in a real A320 Xfrom Duesseldorf to London Heathrow. There was no way, even with X100 % N1 all the time, to repeat this in time with the sim, even if you Xtake into account that the sim is running in a slo-mo (60 sec. sim = 67 Xsec. real time). This slo-mo-effect alone keeps me from using it. X XNote that the new USA-edition has a nice disclaimer on its package: Xit says that "A320 Airbus" is not related to any software used to Xoperate or simulate a real A320 by Lufthanse, if I remember correctly. X XHappy landings. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I4 X X> What I want to know is how to play AW on internet. What do I need besides X> the game and the hardware to run it on my end? I have dialup access to a X> VMS machine. I can connect at speeds up to 9600, which is a major upgrade X> to the machine's hardware. USed to be we could only connect at 1200. *laugh* X XPlaying over the Internet is fairly simple. You need to: X X1. Get a copy of the IHHD software (available on cactus.org in /pub/IHHD). X2. Compile it on your Internet host. It is written in C and is X probably fairly UNIX specific (tty modes and process forking to be X specific), but if you are a good VMS C hacker, you could port it to X VMS. X3. Find another person to play with and arrange a time to play. X4. At the appropriate time, login to the Internet host from your PC using X your favorite terminal emulator/modem or use AW to talk to the modem X directly to do it. Run the IHHD software specifying the remote X host to connect to. You are now connected like a null modem cable X and can fly head-to-head. X X> What does it take to connect to the IHHD daemon with AW? Can I just forget it X> with VMS ior even with dialup? What do you folks that use the daemon use to X> connect? If you need to have slip or tcp/ip connection to the internet then X> I must admit that all this talk about IHHD is pretty much a waste of space. X> How many users out there would be able to play if they needed major hardware X> like that? Up here the only way that I could get access like that is to X> lease my *OWN* T3 line, and that just *AIN'T* gonna happen any time in the X> near future. *laugh* X XI have used kermit to handle the dialing and I have done it directly X(by hand) within AW. AW has a dumb terminal mode in it that you can Xuse. If you use another program to dial in to the Internet host, then Xjust exit without hanging up. X XThe IHHD software is designed to be non-intrusive and work with Xanything that talks over a serial line. It doesn't do SLIP or anything Xfancy. It basically makes a connection between the two Internet Xhosts. The connection between the Internet host and your PC is via Xyour serial line (and modem if you are dialing in). X XThe only special hardware that's needed is an Internet host (running XUNIX?) and a way to connect the serial line from your PC to the XInternet host (most likely via a modem). X XI'm not very familiar with the VMS programming environment, so I can't Xsay how easy it would be to port to VMS. Email me direct if you are Xinterested and have questions. X XWe don't support PCs directly connected to the Internet as there's no Xway to get the serial line data translated into network packets on the Xsame machine. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Air Warrior Stuff X X> A new X> guy comes in who's incredibly hot stuff with Aces of the Pacific and X> Red Baron and Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, and Falcon 3.0, and thinks that X> he'll be able to kick butt in Air Warrior. It almost never happens. X> Currently, the only games that give you a jump start in Air Warrior in my X> opinion are Fighter Duel and Fighter Duel Pro for the Amiga, and flying X> SVGA Air Warrior offline against the computer or H2H against other people. X> Even with hours of experience in these sims, you'll still get toasted your X> first few times up in the online arenas. X XI have yet to make it to on to GEnie, but I would like to add something to Xthis. Sure, there's some situational awareness that the other sims don't Xgive you, but I think a major portion of getting waxed is just learning Xhow these particular airplanes fly and how the sim does its simulation. XIt takes a while to learn or unlearn things that worked before in other Xsimulators. It's one thing to know what the right things are to do and Xanother to know how to do them well. X XI will claim to know Falcon very well and be decent with AOTP, but Xevery time I've flown AW h2h so far, I've been stomped. This is after Xtwo weeks of flying almost nightly for a few hours. Each plane has its Xown characteristics and you not only have to know your plane inside and Xout to fly it well, but you also have to know your opponents plane Xwell. Lastly, it just takes time to figure out what manuevers work Xwith the different reality settings. Friday night, I found out that Xyou don't want to reverse under any circumstance if lethality is off X(despite my opponents comments that he'd be toast if I scissored Xbecause his roll rate was too slow). It's just to easy to get hits Xwith the large hit bubbles. X XJim "Broad Side of the Barn" Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 8 ]] END-of-issue008 echo x - issue009 sed 's/^X//' >issue009 << 'END-of-issue009' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I9 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 9 X Mon Jul 19 21:33:59 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X "Air Warrior" on 3DO rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Tornado - eject, lgb runs Robear X M1 Tank Platoon & Air Duel tenbrins%ccmail@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil X AW Pacific Theatre rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I6 Simon Garton <76600.3264@CompuServe X RE Airduel? MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Re: Air Warrior Stuff opus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: "Air Warrior" on 3DO X XOne of the Kesmai guys in GEnie said, in a posting on the Games Roundtable, Xthat Air Warrior would be available for the 3DO entertainment deck. X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Robear XSubject: Tornado - eject, lgb runs X X XI think the reason you can't eject much in jTornado is that it resolves Xmany things as fatal, and throws you into the death scene. So if you take Xa real serious SAM hit, or hit a building, you are already out of the Xpicture, quite suddenly. Too realistic? Not with the option to dump the Xresults. X XHas anyone figured a good way to hit the four targets with an lgb group? XI find that I go in and release all four at 4 or 5 second intervals, but Xthe first one hits, I move the designator and WHAMWHAMWHAM the other three Xpile in on top of each other! How can I get them to stay spread out? X XI do love wandering around with the tiald on, scoping out planes on the Xenemy airfields and peeking into people's backyards...Makes me wonder what Xthese guys do with it on real training missions...:-0 X X David Pipes X X------------------------------- X XFrom: tenbrins%ccmail@TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil XSubject: M1 Tank Platoon & Air Duel X X X I wrote earlier about looking for M1 Tank platoon. I X found it at a mailorder place called Chips & Bits. X Unfortunately it comes bundled with the original Gunship. X Fortunately they only want $12 US for it. X Also I've seen a flight sim in the stores that I've X heard nothing of on the flight sim internet groups. Air X Duel by Microprose. (really I dont work for Microprose, it X just seems that their stuff is catching my eye lately.) Has X anyone flown this sim? Is it any good? It's supposed to X have planes from all eras, from WW I to present. You can X mix and match, maybe shoot down the Red Barons Fokker with X an F16 or something. Any info on this would be X appreciated. X X Steve Ten Brink X steven10b@aol.com X tenbrins%ccmail@tacom-emh1.army.mil X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: AW Pacific Theatre X XAny advice on flying and fighting the planes in the Pacific theatre? I'd Xlike to hear tips on effective use of the P-38, Zero, and Corsair, especially. X(Especially, that is, after my amazing 375 knot dive straight into the ground Xlast night with a P-38. This was the flight after I had hit the "8" key - Xwhich turns OFF the engines - when I meant to hit the "7" key - which turns XON emergency power. Some nights are like that.) X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Simon Garton <76600.3264@CompuServe.COM> XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I6 X Xto Joerg Stenger X Xre the multiple targets with LGBs.... the bombs hit wherever the designator Xis currently, not when the bombs was released. So to hit multiple targets X... X Xfind first target and lock Xrelease bomb, wait 5 seconds, release bomb, wait 5 seconds etc etc Xwait for first bomb to hit Xdrag (left button) target onto second target Xwait for second bomb to hit Xdrag onto third target ... and repeat as necessary X Xits damn difficult until you get used to it ... X ... and then sooooooo satisfying !! X Xgood luck ! Simon X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: RE Airduel? X X> ...... Air X> Duel by Microprose. (really I dont work for Microprose, it X> just seems that their stuff is catching my eye lately.) Has X> anyone flown this sim? Is it any good? It's supposed to X> have planes from all eras, from WW I to present. You can X> mix and match, maybe shoot down the Red Barons Fokker with X> an F16 or something. Any info on this would be X> appreciated. X XI bought Air Duel in hopes of playing with a friend over the modem (he Xbought a copy also). All I can say is that it really stunk up the place. XFirst off we could not get a modem connections to save our life. We Xdo relatively well with F3 and very well with Tornado and F15III. XThe graphics are nice but the flying is lousy! The F16 model is the pits Xand it is hard to fly. On my 486/25 with 8 mb ram and Diamond Speed Star X24X is was choppy (especially when in the F16, not so much in other planes). XThe views are very bad IMO. Their version of padlock or what ever only takes Xplace when you hold a button down, then it takes time for you to swing your Xhead in that direction. This makes keeping an eye on you foe *very* Xdifficult. Not that F3 Padlock is super realistic about what a pilot Xcan and cannot see, but I beleive certain liberties *must* be taken Xwhen creating a flight sim. As PC pilots we are at a great disadvatage Xover the real pilot in respect to situational awareness, but I digress. XThe dog fighting is not all that great and the missions are neither Xintersting nor continuing. The flight models are aimed at novices Xbut the game play is so bad even verteran fliers will have trouble Xflying against the computer. I wrote MPS two days later and told Xthem what I thought of this sim (when it was fresh in my head :-) XUnfortunately the manual was damaged during a sudden thunder shower and XI could not return it to EB for a refund. MPS took it back in a Xeven trade for Legacy. I thank MPS very much for such good Xcustomer support! XI would avoid air duel at all costs. XP.S. It was made by a UK software publisher and is distributed by MPS X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: opus@ihlpf.att.com XSubject: Re: Air Warrior Stuff X XMORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU (Scott Morgan) writes: X X>From what I have seen over the last 6 months or so is that Air Warrior X>and those who fly is really set up as a large fraternity (though not X>intentionally). I have gone flying for periods of times and had *nobody* X>return my radio messages regarding what is up. You can fly around X>as a lone wolf and maybe get a kill or two, but generally when you see all the X>chatter on the radio you might tend to feel left out (as I sometimes do). X XI know what you mean; it's kind of depressing! But some guys started Xtalking to me and helping me out one night, and then it became a lot of fun. X X>As you fly as a lone wolf, you tend to get your tail waxxed a good bit. X XTry boom and zooming. I used to get lots of kills that way flying on my Xown. Takes a lot of time and patience, though. X X>So how do you get around this? Go to the informal or formal training X>"academies". X XOr just as good, get to know the people on Internet who play Air Warrior, Xlike myself and Jim Knutson. We can set up times when we'll meet online. XYou've got a lot more to look forward to when you're sure there will be Xpeople on that you know, IMO. X X>I still tend to fly lone wolf only because I don't have the time and money X>to really get involved with it now. X XWe can all be lone wolves together. :^) X X--- X Xrogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) writes: X> X>Nobody every seems to be in the realism theatre when I list the theatres - X>is there a time when I'm likely to find someone there? X XYou're sure you're talking about 869, right? I try to fly when I know Xsome squadron is having a "squad night." That way I can be sure there will Xbe at least a small crowd of people on. X X>Does the realism theatre include full lethality? X X869 is an experimental arena, so lethality varies. It's usually pretty Xclose to offline lethality, but the hit bubble is larger than one wingspan Xbecause of the warping in real time. X X>The other night I bounced a P-38 in an FW190 - X>I had him in my sights and the trigger pulled for 5-10 seconds - seeing hits X>the whole time. He didn't go down! X XDo you have the "local hits" option turned on? If so, you may sometimes Xsee hits that do not really count against the other plane for various Xreasons. In this case, it sounds like you got a nice tail shot, so your Xproblem was probably just due to the low lethality setting. X X>This sort of thing distorts the X>whole game for me, despite the obvious realism of AW in may other respects. X XLower lethality was put in for playability reasons. It will probably be Xclose to realistic once things get shaken out in the real time arena. XPeople have complained about this for a long time, and it looks like they're Xfinally getting what they want. X X>Not at all, but matching icons and dots is not a model of anthing in the X>real world. X XIt's a model of aircraft recognition. I'm sure you realize how close you'd Xhave to get in AW to be able to tell planes apart by their shape. Icons Xmay not be ideal, but they work. X X>I'd like to see the black dots change to colored dots at some X>realistic distance. X XYou and a lot of other people. I'm so used to the icons, though, that Xit doesn't really matter to me. X X>I also think the range readings next to the icons give X>too much information to the player. X XIt's an attempt to compensate for the limited resolution of the viewscreen. XIn reality, you'd be able to judge distance better than by just looking at Xthe dots on the screen, even in 640x480. I agree the ranges unrealistically Xprecise, but I think it's a reasonable tradeoff. There may be better Xcompromises for this limitation, and if you can think of one, post it on Xthe AW bulletin board on GEnie! Kesmai is always willing to hear new ideas. X X---- X Xknutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) writes: X X>Sure, there's some situational awareness that the other sims don't X>give you, but I think a major portion of getting waxed is just learning X>how these particular airplanes fly and how the sim does its simulation. X>It takes a while to learn or unlearn things that worked before in other X>simulators. X XYeah, I think the main differences are that it's a lot harder to FLY in XAir Warrior and there are a many more ways to screw up badly and doom Xyourself to failure than there are in other sims. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 9 ]] END-of-issue009 echo x - issue010 sed 's/^X//' >issue010 << 'END-of-issue010' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I10 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 10 X Wed Jul 21 07:20:45 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: multiple LGB-target run (I6,10) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X SWOTL add on COSULICH@area.trieste.it X Re: Joystick problem with Tornado wright@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Ted Wr X Re: Air Warrior Stuff knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: multiple LGB-target run (I6,10) X XI just want to thank Scott and Simon for their advices. And Simon is right: Xit's *really* "soooooo satisfying !!" ;-) X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: COSULICH@area.trieste.it XSubject: SWOTL add on X X XHi, Xsome time ago I have heard rumours about some adds on for SWOTL on somewhere X(wuarchive?): there was an Afrikan scenario and a russian one, new missions etc. XCould you tell me anything about this, please? XThanks in advance XCiao Guido X XCosulich@area.trieste.it X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: wright@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Ted Wright) XSubject: Re: Joystick problem with Tornado X X>From: Wilson Chiu X>Subject: joystick problem with Tornado X>... X>Anyhow, I don't seem to be able to use the joystick for Tornado! To be X>more precise, Tornado doesn't seem to clibrate it properly, if I get X>one axis right (left and right), I can't do anything with up & down, X>and if I hit 'y', the plane just goes into a horrible roll.........Has X>anyone else experienced this? X>... XI had this problem with my FCS and Gravis Ultrasound joystick port. I contacted XSpectrum Holobyte, and they dutifully wrote a bug report, but implied that XDigital XIntegration would not believe that there was a problem unless I contacted them. XSo I contacted Digital Integration, and their only suggestion was to get rid Xof my XFCS (even though I told them I had the same problem with another joystick). They Xdid mention that a patch was coming out soon for Tornado. X XI solved the problem (temporarily anyway) myself by disabling the nice, speed Xcompensating jostick port on the Ultrasound and enabling the old joystick Xport on my I/O card. The numbers returned in the joystick calibrate were Xgenerally Xlarger with the old port and covered a wider range. I reported all this to XDigital XIntegration (via email), but I didn't get any response from them. X XTed Wright X XTed Wright (wright@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov) X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Air Warrior Stuff X X> >The other night I bounced a P-38 in an FW190 - X> >I had him in my sights and the trigger pulled for 5-10 seconds - seeing hits X> >the whole time. He didn't go down! X> X> Do you have the "local hits" option turned on? If so, you may sometimes X> see hits that do not really count against the other plane for various X> reasons. In this case, it sounds like you got a nice tail shot, so your X> problem was probably just due to the low lethality setting. X XOk, I give. What's the Options->Effects->Local Hits option do? I've Xlooked again and again in the manual and cannot find any description of Xthe Effects menu (though I can guess what most of them mean). I saw that Xit was off by default and turned it on myself because it seemed like it Xmight be a good idea. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 10 ]] END-of-issue010 echo x - issue011 sed 's/^X//' >issue011 << 'END-of-issue011' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I11 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 11 X Thu Jul 22 09:20:55 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X New Dynamix Simulator Series rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Re: Air Warrior Stuff opus@ihlpf.att.com X Tornado campaigns MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X SAMs: Digital Interogation's answer stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Why do I listen to you guys? "Pete Williams" > Do you have the "local hits" option turned on? X> X>Ok, I give. What's the Options->Effects->Local Hits option do? I've X>looked again and again in the manual and cannot find any description of X>the Effects menu (though I can guess what most of them mean). I saw that X>it was off by default and turned it on myself because it seemed like it X>might be a good idea. X XSince several people have asked me this same question, I'll respond here Xinstead of via email. A short description of the local hits option is Xcontained in the update.txt file included with the later versions of XSVGA Air Warrior (that's why it's not in the manual), but it doesn't tell Xthe whole story. Unfortunately, the whole story is rather long. My Xapologies to the non-Air Warriors on this mailing list. X XI'll have to begin by describing how gunnery hits are detected. XIt makes most sense to talk about the option from the point of view of Xonline flying, so I'll start there and describe the differences for offline Xand H2H play as I go along. X XWhen you fire at someone while online, your front end checks to see if Xyour bullets pass through its idea of where your target is. If the Xfront end thinks you got a hit, then it tells the Air Warrior host (a Xminicomputer owned by Kesmai), and the host decides whether to confirm Xyour hit or reject it (I'll get back to why hits may be rejected later). XIf the hit is confirmed, your front end will told about it. X XBefore the local hits option was added, this was the earliest point at Xwhich you'd see any visual confirmation of the hit (a flash and/or pieces Xbreaking off), which could be a second later than you actually hit your Xtarget. The designers felt this delayed feedback made it difficult to Xlearn how to hit things, so they added the local hits option. With this Xoption on, you will see a flash ("fractal spark," as it's sometimes Xcalled) immediately when your front end detects a hit. If and when the Xhost eventually acknowledges it, you will see pieces fly off the target. XThus, you get good feedback and know when your marksmanship is good, Xbut you can be fooled into thinking that you're actually doing damage Xwhen you're not because the host rejected the hits your front end claimed. XSome people like this, some people don't. X XWhy does the host reject some hits? There are two possible reasons that XI know of. First, if the actual position of the target was a large Xenough distance away from the apparent position relayed to you by the Xfront end (i.e. what you saw on your screen) due to warping, then the Xhit will be rejected. To describe the second reason, I'll have to go into Xhow hits are detected. X XThe normal method of hit detection in AW is to look for shots that Xpenetrate a spherical volume around the target (the "hit bubble"), and Xapply a probability toward throwing the hit out based on the direction Xfrom which the shot approached the target. Shots from head-on had the Xleast chance of being credited, while shots from the rear had the Xgreatest (100%?). With this method, it's obvious the host rejects hits on Xa regular basis. I don't want to get into why head-on and deflection Xshots are intentionally reduced in effectiveness by this scheme. There Xare some good reasons for it, but the whole topic is still very debatable. X XA new method of hit detection is currently being trialed. My Xunderstanding is that instead of using one hit bubble and varying Xprobabilities, it simply uses a set of hit bubbles, with a small bubble Xbeing used for head-on shots, a middle-sized one for deflection shots, Xand a large one for rear shots. It's ironic that I suggested this Xscheme, thinking I had come up with a wonderfully novel idea, only to be Xtold that Kesmai had already implemented it! Anyway, the host does not Xthrow out any hits except due to warping (as described above) when using Xthis method. X XI believe that the new method is used offline and H2H. I'm not sure about Xpage 869, but I suspect it's used there as well. The old method is still Xused in the 870 arenas. X XFor H2H and offline play, it shouldn't really matter whether you use Xlocal hits or not under the new hit detection method. I would recommend Xturning it off, so you'll know for sure when your target is taking damage. XIf you're not yet confident in your gunnery skills, I suggest leaving the Xlocal hits option on when flying online. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Tornado campaigns X XHi all, XMany thanks to all who contributed their suggestion on how to complete Totnado Xmissions. *BELEIVE* me I took them all into account as I fly and plan Xmissions. I still tend to hold the belief that the missions are unduly Xdifficult, the other planes are really good for sh**, and there will be Xfuture patches addressing SAM's. After flying well over 100 missions I still Xhave yet to limp home on 1 engine or have other serious damage. The worst XI got so far was a knocked out MFD. SAM's are all or nothing, you're hit, Xyou're dead, no damage, no plane, no eject..oblivion. AAA is fun to watch and Xdoes occassionaly rock the plane. X XMy question today is has anyone successfully completed campaign 1 in Wazone X1? I have tried 9 ways to Sunday to complete that mission. I have flown it Xseveral times straight up, adjusted my flight path hither and dither to avoid XAA and still I can't finish it. The biggest single problem is the CAP the Xenemy has up. I'll fly at 200 ft below EWR and still the TWI will light up X(nearly always at the same place) and soon here come the orange +'s. Once they Xstart shooting it is only a matter of time. I tried to knock them out first Xwith my 2 measely Sidewinders but that lets them in to close. They get Xbehind you and an IDL (?) has little chance. I tried to out run them but Xyou really can't out run a missile. I suppose I could crawl to the target Xand hope that the CAP is then flying northeast with their radars Xpointed away from me so I could sneak in. But this would seem to be Xan X-Wing type of method, find the key to win type of solution and not Xreally a simulator type of reaction. X XWhere I still am enthusiastic about this sim I am quickly discovering it has Xa lack of replayability in the canned missions and campaign areas. I still Xhave yet to go to command. Falcon 3 has "something" that keeps bringing Xme back to fly again. Tornado on the other hand is more like.."Fly that Xmission? Forget it, court marshall me, I ain't goin. Unless you get Xsome CAP up there to keep those buggers of my back and some wing men Xthat can actually take out the SAM's they are supposed to I'd rather Xsit in a nice safe cell than fly that meat grinder! And where the Xhe*& are those ejections seats?" X XHas anyone used ther AWACS? Does it do anything for the PC pilot? or does Xit just work towards the computer world which I feel less a part of than I did Xin F15III? X XSorry to post a negative post but I am getting damned frustrated losing Xmissions for what I perceive to be reasons beyond my control. It is Xone thing to blow a mission because of my mistakes or poor planning, Xit is quite another to fall victim to perceived programming malice in order Xto make the sim challenging. X XHelp! X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: SAMs: Digital Interogation's answer X XHello, X XI just thought that the following letters might interest You. X X----- Begin Included Message ----- X X>From stenger Fri Jul 16 17:40:42 1993 XReturn-Path: XDate: Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:40:40 +0200 XFrom: stenger (Joerg Stenger) XTo: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk XSubject: Tornado: Do SAMs always kill? XCc: stenger XContent-Length: 569 X XHello, XThe subject says it. If I am hit by a SAM or a AA-missle in Falcon 3 I Xhave the chance to either to eject or to procceed the flight damaged. XIf a SAM hits me in Tornado I go straight into the "destroyed view" :-( XWhat are the warning-indicators at the rear cockpit and the eject-button for Xif You get killed imedately? XI would be glad to get an answer from You. X XYours Joerg Stenger X XP.S.: I sent my registration card to You a week ago. Has it already reached X You, i.e., am I a registered user now? XP.P.S.: Is there any progress in fixing the sound-bug? X X----- End Included Message ----- X----- Begin Included Message ----- X X>From digint@cix.compulink.co.uk Mon Jul 19 18:19:26 1993 XReturn-Path: XDate: Mon, 19 Jul 93 17:00 GMT0BST-1 XFrom: Digital Integration Limited XSubject: Re: Tornado: Do SAMs always ki XTo: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de XCc: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk XReply-To: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk XContent-Length: 312 X X Xhello Joerg XUnfortunately if you are hit by sam then you are destroyed. If, however you Xget hit by triple A then you may incur some damage which is what the warning Xindicators are for. The registration cards are still being fed in you may or Xmay not be registered yet! X XRussell Alcock X X>>>MATRIX version 1.23a X X----- End Included Message ----- X XHmm, no comments about the sound-bug... X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Pete Williams" XSubject: Why do I listen to you guys? X X Why do I listen to you guys? X X OK, as a result of your inputs, I have gone off and done (another) dumb Xthing and purchased SVGA Air Warrior. All this talk about addictive drugs, Xand yet they let just anybody go out and buy these flight sims....... X X It's your fault for telling me about this, so the only way to clear Xyour conscience is to help me out..... X X 1. I remember all the talk about sound problems, but I forgot Xwhat the outcome is. I'm using a basic SB, and get a couple of seconds Xof sound when the engine starts or when I shoot, otherwise it's Xsilent. I know other people had this problem; what's the fix? X X[ Have you checked the sound config, to make sure that all of the sounds X are turned on? I believe that you have to go into single/multi player X mode, and select aircraft. (I don't have the game in front of me.) X Anyway, make sure the boxes are x'ed off. --Jeff ] X X 2. I find the flight characteristics to be satisfying (I'm using Xfull realism settings), although I would have expected higher IAS Xreadings. Flying a P51, I find myself at about 250-300 knts under X100% power and no g's; I would have expected a little higher airspeed. What Xspeed are you typically flying/fighting at (ignore low speed ring around Xthe rosey)? X X X 3. The only way I can get the drones to engage is to assign them X'ace' skills. Other than that everyone seems to run away. For those Xof you doing online or h2h, how well does offline action prepare you? X(think I know the answer, but I had to ask anyway). Enemy AI doesn't seem Xthat great - in my first flight I was able to down 2 P51's (one at a Xtime) before they got me. X X [ Are you flying at 100% realism and 50% fuel? That's what the enemy does. X Pilots below ace don't always engage. It's in a doc here somewhere that X I'll dig up later today. As for tips on what do to, try the following; X 1 v 1 in same planes. (You should be able to kill most of the time.) X 1 v 2+ in same planes. X 1 v 1 in different planes, the computer with the advantage. X 1 v 2+ (same as above) X --Jeff ] X X X 4. How much offline time did you spend before trying online, and how Xdid you fare? What are your training strategies? What planes are you Xflying? Why do I ask so many questions? X X [ Off-line mode was even more of a joke than today when I started AW X (3 years ago - No drones even.), so I learned online at $6/hr. (ack) X I flew a lot of P51 and P38's. Now, depending on what the goal is, X it's usually either P38's, zekes, or A26's most of the time. X X A couple of tips for the AW wannabe; :-) X X Always have visual contact on your target. Learn to use your view keys. X Remember you have a rudder. It can do wonders. X Remember that energy is life. Conserve when possible, or be dead. X Don't fight on an enemy's terms. (eg; don't stallfight a Spit in a P51.) X Human pilots fly a LOT different than ANY computer pilot you've ever seen. X X There's more, but that's all for now. I don't want to give away all of X my secrets yet. :-) -Jeff] X XPete 'sucker for a sim' Williams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: SAM's ala Digital Int. X XA letter from Digital Integration to Joerg Stenger Regarding SAM's X X>hello Joerg X>Unfortunately if you are hit by sam then you are destroyed. If, however you X>get hit by triple A then you may incur some damage which is what the warning X>indicators are for. The registration cards are still being fed in you may or X>may not be registered yet! X X>Russell Alcock X X>>>MATRIX version 1.23a X XI do not really know what I think of this response. Are SAM's that deadly? XHas F3 been a "lie" regarding SAM's? Digital Integration really had no Xtechnical response it seems. AAA is easy enough to avoid, but the SAM's are Xanother story. F15III gave you too many hits before going down, it seems XTornado give you none. One hit, good bye! X XHas anyone figured out a use for those stupid drones in the F5 view? Are Xthey actually doing something or are they just *USELESS* eye candy? It Xrealy annoys me that on every mission in every warzone at any time those X2 A10's are still circling the same area. X XOh well I'll be going to Command this weekend (if Mig 29 doesn't arrive) and Xsee how Tornado shakes out there. X XStay Low! X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Why do I listen to you guys? X X> 1. I remember all the talk about sound problems, but I forgot X> what the outcome is. I'm using a basic SB, and get a couple of seconds X> of sound when the engine starts or when I shoot, otherwise it's X> silent. I know other people had this problem; what's the fix? X XThe only reference I found in the flight_sim wais library was to make Xsure that your IRQ is set to 7. Both 5 and 10 are known to cause Xproblems. X X> 2. I find the flight characteristics to be satisfying (I'm using X> full realism settings), although I would have expected higher IAS X> readings. Flying a P51, I find myself at about 250-300 knts under X> 100% power and no g's; I would have expected a little higher airspeed. What X> speed are you typically flying/fighting at (ignore low speed ring around X> the rosey)? X XDepending on the plane and fighting style, fights occur from 300+ kias Xin a dive down to 75 kias. I thought it was a bit slow as well, but Xthat's where it happens. X X> 3. The only way I can get the drones to engage is to assign them X> 'ace' skills. Other than that everyone seems to run away. For those X> of you doing online or h2h, how well does offline action prepare you? X> (think I know the answer, but I had to ask anyway). Enemy AI doesn't seem X> that great - in my first flight I was able to down 2 P51's (one at a X> time) before they got me. X XBe sure the country of the drones is different from your own. I use Xan ace bomber and two ace Spits or P-38s for drone targets. It's usually Xenough to keep me busy. X X> 4. How much offline time did you spend before trying online, and how X> did you fare? What are your training strategies? What planes are you X> flying? Why do I ask so many questions? X XI bought my copy towards the end of June. I've been studying the data, Xtrying out various planes, flying against ace drones and doing h2h Xusing IHHD on an almost nightly basis since then. I have yet to login Xto GEnie. I'm almost to the point where I think I have decent command Xof the views and a reasonable idea of how the planes fly and the sim Xworks to get onto GEnie. X XMy h2h flights have been...ugh...eye opening :-). It was a real shock Xto get hit so much, but I learned alot about what you can and can't Xdo. I last much longer with lethality on for instance because the hit Xbubbles are smaller. If I went to GEnie with where they fly with Xlethality off in the main arena, I'm sure I'd spend most of my time Xflying to the dogfights and very little time actually fighting in Xthem. X XMy training strategy is to re-read Shaw for a 3rd time, get as much Xdrone practice as I can to familiarize myself with the view controls, Xand play h2h with more experienced players to help me get a feel for Xwhat it's like against a human (and to have fun :-). I haven't decided Xwhether or not to go to TNT or AWTA. X XI'm flying all of them in various amounts right now. I want to become Xfamiliar with them all. This is not just so I can fly them myself. I Xwant to know how they fly when I'm fighting against them as well. The XSpit seems to be the best aircraft of the bunch, but I haven't flown it Xmuch. I'll probably pick a couple to fly most often, but I'm leaning Xtoward the American planes since they are available in both theaters. XI just don't want to be a boom and zoomer if I can help it. I like Xmixing it up. However, the P-nn (and navy) planes just aren't designed Xfor this kind of fight. X XThe most trouble I have at the moment is knowing how far to push each Xplane without spinning (all reality options turned on). Spins have Xkilled me more than anything else at this point. Nor have I figured Xout at what altitude it's smarter to bailout than try spin recovery. XMy brain doesn't work that way yet (maybe some shock therapy whenever I Xgo down with the plane is called for). X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 11 ]] END-of-issue011 echo x - issue012 sed 's/^X//' >issue012 << 'END-of-issue012' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I12 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 12 X Thu Jul 22 22:38:43 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X SAM deadliness Robear X Re: Great Warships of History ross@kaos.b11.ingr.com (Ross Ericks X Re: SAM deadliness stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Re: New Dynamix Simulator Series opus@ihlpf.att.com X Re: Why do I listen to you guys? opus@ihlpf.att.com X Re: New Dynamix Simulator Series knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Robear XSubject: SAM deadliness X X X I think the difference between F3 Sam hits and Tornado is that the XTornado is operating at only a few hundred feet at very high speed. Any Xhit that causes massive loss of control, even if momentary, will cause Xlawn dart syndrome. A similar hit, engine loss or whatever, will only Xmess up an F-16 pilot's day at 4000' AGL. He can recover. X X One good indicator is the number of Tornados lost in Desert Storm. XQuite out of proportion to the other types, precisely because of the Xrisky flight profiles. No room for error. X X I just reject the mission, anyway :-). X X David Pipes X X------------------------------- X XFrom: ross@kaos.b11.ingr.com (Ross Erickson) XSubject: Re: Great Warships of History X X> ------------------------------------------------------------ X> From: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) X> Subject: New Dynamix Simulator Series X> X> The Sierra/Dynamix support rep. on GEnie says that the first game in the X> "Great Warships of History" sereis is being developed. It's a WWII X> sumarine simulator. X XYes, and it's called 'Aces of the Deep'. VERY cool technology in this Xone. Was previously called Graue Wolfe before a recent name change. XWe'll be doing a preview of this one this early fall. X X- -- X-------------------------------------------------------- X| Ross Erickson | Read GAME BYTES MAGAZINE!! | X| ross@kaos.b11.ingr.com | Found at ftp.uml.edu | X| 129.135.252.87 | and wuarchive.wustl.edu | X| 205-730-4019 - voice | Check it out and send some | X| 205-730-6445 - fax | feedback via email. | X-------------------------------------------------------- X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: SAM deadliness X XDavid Pipes wrote: X X> I think the difference between F3 Sam hits and Tornado is that the X> Tornado is operating at only a few hundred feet at very high speed. Any X XI thought that would make it more difficult for the guys at the trigger? XIf I'm flying at Mach 1+ and the SAM does also it should be quite difficult Xfor her (?) to hit me while I'doing some manouvers, dropping chaffs and playing X"You can't touch me" via ECM. X X> hit that causes massive loss of control, even if momentary, will cause X> lawn dart syndrome. A similar hit, engine loss or whatever, will only X> mess up an F-16 pilot's day at 4000' AGL. He can recover. X XYes, sometimes I can ;-) X X> One good indicator is the number of Tornados lost in Desert Storm. X> Quite out of proportion to the other types, precisely because of the X> risky flight profiles. No room for error. X> X> I just reject the mission, anyway :-). X XI'm like Murphy - an optimist (and still trying to get it completed ;-) X> X> David Pipes XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: opus@ihlpf.att.com XSubject: Re: New Dynamix Simulator Series X Xrogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) writes: X>The Sierra/Dynamix support rep. on GEnie says that the first game in the X>"Great Warships of History" series is being developed. It's a WWII X>sumarine simulator. X XThere is a picture from this game in the latest issue of CGW. I believe Xthe game will be called "Grau Wolfe" (anyone know what "Grau" translates Xto from German?). The picture looked VERY nice, but I don't know if it Xwas a transition screen or if it was representative of actual game play. XIt shows a half-sunk freighter with one end sticking up in the air and Xa multi-engined plane flying overhead. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: opus@ihlpf.att.com XSubject: Re: Why do I listen to you guys? X Xknutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) writes: X>"Pete Williams" writes: X>> I'm using a basic SB, and get a couple of seconds X>> of sound when the engine starts or when I shoot, otherwise it's X>> silent. I know other people had this problem; what's the fix? X> X>The only reference I found in the flight_sim wais library was to make X>sure that your IRQ is set to 7. Both 5 and 10 are known to cause X>problems. X XIt depends on what version you're using (you can tell by looking at the Xtop of the "About" menu page). For 1.07 and earlier, IRQs 7, 2, and 10 Xshould be tried. For later versions, you should try 7 or 2. All versions Xpast 1.07 are BETA, and thus if you want them, you have to pay to download Xthem from GEnie. Once a new version becomes official, it will be Xavailable for free download from GEnie. Peter, if you have version 1.00, Xmake sure you grab 1.06 (which is equivalent to 1.07) from GEnie. X X>> 2. I find the flight characteristics to be satisfying (I'm using X>> full realism settings), although I would have expected higher IAS X>> readings. Flying a P51, I find myself at about 250-300 knts under X>> 100% power and no g's; I would have expected a little higher airspeed. X XLike in real life, it takes a loooong time for AW planes to reach top Xspeed in level flight. A much more efficient way to do this is to climb Xabove your target altitude, then dive to get to top speed. I just checked Xmy tables, and the P-51D's maximum indicated airspeed is 320 knots, Xacheived while flying on the deck. The P-51 achieves its maximum true Xairspeed of 380 knots (437 mph) at 23000 ft., equivalent to an indicated Xairspeed of just 264 knots. X X>> What speed are you typically flying/fighting at (ignore low speed ring X>> around the rosey)? X> X>Depending on the plane and fighting style, fights occur from 300+ kias X>in a dive down to 75 kias. I thought it was a bit slow as well, but X>that's where it happens. X XDuring my climb to altitude, I'll try to stay fast enough to maneuver in Xcase I get bounced (this varies from plane to play; in a P-51, I don't Xlike being slower than 210 KIAS or so). Once I level off, I go as fast Xas my plane will take me at full military power, as long as I don't have Xoverriding fuel considerations. It's a heck of a lot easier to bleed Xenergy than it is to gain it. X XSlow dogfights at just above stall speed are dangerous to get into. XVery often, some unscrupulous scoundrel flying for the enemy (like me X:^) will come along, see what you're doing, climb above you, then make Xdiving passes at you while you're still busy with your other opponent Xand too slow to evade, until you're dead. On the other hand, if an Xopponent wants to fight this way, then it's very difficult to avoid Xgetting dragged down with him unless you have the speed and foresight to Xdisengage. X X>I just don't want to be a boom and zoomer if I can help it. I like X>mixing it up. However, the P-nn (and navy) planes just aren't designed X>for this kind of fight. X XThe F6F and the P-38 are excellent dogfighting planes, if you know how Xto use them (I don't). X XDogfighting is a lot of fun, but if the other side outnumbers you Xsubstantially, it'll be a blood bath. "Boom and zoom" diving attacks Xallow you to be effective even when you're seriously outnumbered. I've Xtaken on 5-6 enemies at once while flying a P-51 and come away with a kill Xand no damage whatsoever. I'm not good, just patient. Boom and Xzooming sounds boring to a lot of people, and there definitely are slow Xperiods, but just try to imagine how exciting it is to wade through about X12-15 planes buzzing over an airfield when all their pilots are watching Xyou, waiting to nail you when you make your pass. Good pilots will get Xkills in these scenarios. I've had to settle for damaging a few planes Xbefore I was forced away. :^) X X>The most trouble I have at the moment is knowing how far to push each X>plane without spinning (all reality options turned on). Spins have X>killed me more than anything else at this point. X XIt does take a lot of practice to be able to hang it out on the edge Xwithout going too far. You must master this before you fly online, or Xyou will waste your money spinning into the ground instead of fighting. X XIf this continues to be a problem for you, try taking planes that are Xnot prone to spins and are easy to recover with, such as the Bf109 and Xthe Zeke. Stay away from the P-51 and especially the F4U Corsair. The XP-38 is not easy to spin, but once you do, recovery can be extremely Xdifficult X X>Nor have I figured X>out at what altitude it's smarter to bailout than try spin recovery. X XAlways try to recover. What have you got to lose? :^) When you're below X2000 ft., your chances of recovery are slim in some planes and excellent Xin others. Either way, when you're low, you should provide yourself with Xan extra safety margin and not ride as close to the edge of the envelope. X XOne tip, for when it's taking you a long time to recover from a spin: if Xthe oil pressure gauge drops near the yellow zone, kill the engine. This Xwill prevent you from suffering engine damage due to oil starvation. XOnce you've recovered and applied positive Gs long enough for the oil warning Xlight to go out, restart your engine. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: New Dynamix Simulator Series X X> the game will be called "Grau Wolfe" (anyone know what "Grau" translates X> to from German?). X XI believe Grau is Gray. X XJim X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 12 ]] END-of-issue012 echo x - issue013 sed 's/^X//' >issue013 << 'END-of-issue013' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I13 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 13 X Sat Jul 24 19:30:55 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Flying over Internet? aero@ufcc.ufl.edu X Mig-29 release Kris Ong X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: aero@ufcc.ufl.edu XSubject: Flying over Internet? X XWHat simulation software can currently be played Xover Internet? (Falcon? F15? Other sims?) X XLuke XAERO@ufcc.ufl.edu X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Kris Ong XSubject: Mig-29 release X X [ From the Falcon3 list --Jeff ] X XFor those (ALL) of us who await the release of Mig-29, sources say the it Xwent into production on Wed. and should be shipping next week. X- -- Xkrismon@quack.kfu.com An eye for an eye will make the Xkris.ong@rose.com whole world blind. XProdigy: GRTV13B -MLK Jr. X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 13 ]] END-of-issue013 echo x - issue014 sed 's/^X//' >issue014 << 'END-of-issue014' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I14 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 14 X Mon Jul 26 12:24:02 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X SVGA A/W Gunnery and Speeds "Pete Williams" XSubject: SVGA A/W Gunnery and Speeds X X Having about 6 hours of stick time, I am appalled at my lack of Xability to hit anything smaller than, say, Rhode Island. I was Xpretty good at CYAC, and at least reasonable in F3. Given the higher speeds Xof Falcon, I ought to be real fine at A/W, right? X (loud buzz sound in background) X X !! WRONG-O, JACK!! X X My primary failure mode is not to get shot down or spin in, but simply Xto run out of ammo. Despite my best efforts at fire discipline, I find Xmyself taking fairly high deflection shots - with very poor success. A Xfew times I've worked my way into lethal position, but still get a Xlousy hit percentage. I've been flying the Spitfire (which is kinda short Xon ammo anyway), and have never been able to down more than 1 plane before XI go dry. I have all the realism options turned on, which means I have Xthe realistic (i.e., small) load. I am using the LCOS typically set at X500 yards, but am trying to hold my fire untill say 300. I find it much Xharder to control my closure rate than in any other sim, anybody else Xhave this problem? X X Is everyone using realtime, or do you find it better to use Xhalftime? I tried the halftime option once, and found flying very Xdisorienting - I lost the feel of how hard I was turning. For those of Xyou who are playing on the network, do you find it is helpful to train Xat full or halfspeed? How about lethality? X X Anybody have any success at wingovers? I don't have pedals yet, but XI'd like to be able to swap ends at the top of zooms (I mean controlled; XI can do it the other way!). X X I'd also like to hear some impressions from the nuggets out there Xon their first experience in the GEnie arenas. X X XRegards; X XPete 'shooting by Braille' Williams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Sims in the top 100 X XJust thought I'd keep everyone up to date on where flight sims stand Xin the top 100. X X TW LW NW Title Developer/Publisher(s) Cat ID Points X 3 ( 3) 30 Falcon 3.0 (+op.) Spectrum Holobyte/MicroProse SI [1005] 482 X 8 ( 9)^ 13 Strike Commander Origin/Electronic Arts SI [1218] 177 X 15 ( 15) 30 Aces of the Pacific (+miss.) Dynamix/Sierra SI [1010] 110 X 27 ( 30)^ 5 SVGA Air Warrior Kesmai/Konami/GEnie SI [1251] 94 X 28 ( 33)^ 29 Comanche: Maximum Overkill NovaLogic/US Gold SI [1101] 107 X 37 ( 35) 29 F-15 Strike Eagle 3 MicroProse SI [1103] 24 X 46 ( 69)* 3 TORNADO Digital Integr./Spectrum H. SI [1273] 109 X 69 ( 62) 8 MS Flight Simulator 4.0 MicroSoft SI [1233] 26 X 79 ( 79) 30 Red Baron (+missions) Dynamix/Sierra SI [1070] 23 X XFalcon seems to have stabilized at #3. There is a fairly large gap Xbetween it and the #2 and #4 spots. X XBoth SVGA AW and Tornado have been climbing quickly from total Xobscurity just a few weeks ago. X XRemember to exercise your right to vote! X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: RE AW Gunnery X XPete Williams inquires X> Is everyone using realtime, or do you find it better to use X>halftime? I tried the halftime option once, and found flying very X>disorienting - I lost the feel of how hard I was turning. For those of X>you who are playing on the network, do you find it is helpful to train X>at full or halfspeed? How about lethality? X XHalf time is the *single* most difficult thing to adjust to in AW from what Xflying I have done. AS you say there is a drastic change in your sense Xof turning. At times the only way I can see that I am turning hard is to Xcheck the G-meter and watch the compass spin. I would say practicing at Xhalf speed would be the best thing to do for training. If you fly in the main Xarenas they use half speed there so........ The sense of turning is so Xbad on my system that I would prefer to fly in the Realism arena just to Xgive me a better feel for flight. X X X> Anybody have any success at wingovers? I don't have pedals yet, but X>I'd like to be able to swap ends at the top of zooms (I mean controlled; X>I can do it the other way!). X XI have yet to pull a decent wingover. I am using the WCS which controls Xthrottle, rudders, flaps, and radar. I'll pull up into near stall kick the Xrudder full over but it does not seem to respond. I should note that Xmy plane of choice (I fly little else) is the F4U Corsair. That plane Xmay just not be oriented to that type of manuever. X X X> I'd also like to hear some impressions from the nuggets out there X>on their first experience in the GEnie arenas. X XActually my first experiences were quite favorable. I got several kills Xon my first outings. Lately though that has changed. It seems anyone I Xgo up against can out turn me to pieces. I try high speed turns, low speed X turns, high Yo yo, low yo yo, flaps, lower landing gear for brakes. I just Xcan't seem to win a head on pass situation. Once the bandits passes by Xhe can get on me and fire while I am yelling (literally!!) at my computer Xturn you &*^&*(^& TURN! I even lowered the fuel in my tanks to lighten Xthe load. I attribute this frustration to the half speed the system uses. XMaybe I'll start flying with the zero! hehehehehe X X XIs there a night other Internet people might be on AW? Maybe we could get Xa squad of us together to just experiment with all the options for Xedification and entertainments sake! X XScott "flying like a rag" in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: AW signup info X XJust thought I'd pass along something that disturbed me this weekend. X XI've been practicing with AW for about a month now and decided to get Xon and fly with some folks this weekend. Well, to make sure I was Xfamiliar with using GEnie, I decided to get on Friday evening. I Xgot through the signup ok, but then was dropped with a note saying Xthat my account would not be validated for 2 business days. X XNeedless to say, I didn't get to use GEnie or fly with anyone this Xweekend. I'm a bit perturbed, especially given the fact that they Xgive you 4 hours free each month. I should have been able to get Xon to use those 4 hours even without validation, but not a chance. X XThe moral of the story is don't expect to get on the day you signup. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: SVGA A/W Gunnery and Speeds X X> My primary failure mode is not to get shot down or spin in, but simply X> to run out of ammo. Despite my best efforts at fire discipline, I find X> myself taking fairly high deflection shots - with very poor success. X XAs it should be I suppose. High deflection shots are difficult. If Xyou are pulling any G at all, it will almost always be a blind lead Xwith the target below your nose. I suppose that's why so many AW Xplayers say to unload before firing. Also, there's a decreasing Xpercentage hit probability for tail, deflection, and head-on shots. XI don't remember what the percentages are, but tail shots are king. X X> A X> few times I've worked my way into lethal position, but still get a X> lousy hit percentage. I've been flying the Spitfire (which is kinda short X> on ammo anyway), and have never been able to down more than 1 plane before X> I go dry. X XStart with a plane that has a high ammo load and use Recruit or Veteran Xsettings until you get a feel for things. X X> I have all the realism options turned on, which means I have X> the realistic (i.e., small) load. X XDefinitely turn lethality off until you can start hitting things Xreasonably well. X X> I am using the LCOS typically set at X> 500 yards, but am trying to hold my fire untill say 300. X XI have found the LCOS only accurate for the general area of where to Xfire and usually have to use short bursts to walk the tracers into the Xtarget. It's difficult to do at Ace level where the planes manuever a Xlot. Also, my understanding from the manual was that the range setting Xdidn't do anything other than change the size of the sight. I may be Xwrong on this, but that's what I remember. This is even more reason to Xuse short bursts to walk tracers into the target or unload before Xfiring. X X> I find it much X> harder to control my closure rate than in any other sim, anybody else X> have this problem? X XThe planes are in closer proximity in AW and can turn rather quickly. XThis leads fast changes in AOT and fast changes in closure rates. The Xother thing that gets me is the visual target size. It seems to jump Xin size at around 1000 yds which always startles me. X X> Is everyone using realtime, or do you find it better to use X> halftime? I tried the halftime option once, and found flying very X> disorienting - I lost the feel of how hard I was turning. For those of X> you who are playing on the network, do you find it is helpful to train X> at full or halfspeed? How about lethality? X XI personally like realtime. Halftime feels like I'm flying through Xmollases. The G meter seems to be the only way to feel your way Xthrough turns although there seem to be some (very faint) visual clues Xat certain G settings. X X> Anybody have any success at wingovers? I don't have pedals yet, but X> I'd like to be able to swap ends at the top of zooms (I mean controlled; X> I can do it the other way!). X XI'm not sure the flight model fully models the effect. I've tried Xslipping (e.g. right bank, left rudder) for alignment and altitude loss Xduring landings with basically no effect. It could be me, but it Xdidn't do what I expected. I can fly knife-edge passes between the Xfactory smokestacks though, so it does do some things. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: RE AW Gunnery X X> Is there a night other Internet people might be on AW? Maybe we could get X> a squad of us together to just experiment with all the options for X> edification and entertainments sake! X XThere's no Internet squadron (yet), but some of us that have been flying XIHHD together have started meeting Sat. evenings in the realism arena. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 14 ]] END-of-issue014 echo x - issue015 sed 's/^X//' >issue015 << 'END-of-issue015' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I15 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 15 X Tue Jul 27 06:03:49 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X AW Gunnery and Speeds rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Re: SVGA A/W Gunnery and Speeds opus@ihlpf.att.com X Air Warrior cooper@grebyn.com (Gary Cooper) X AW - finally a big night rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X AW Gunnery Progress "Pete Williams" "Pete Williams" writes: X> Having about 6 hours of stick time, I am appalled at my lack of X>ability to hit anything smaller than, say, Rhode Island. X XIt certainly does take practice. X X>Despite my best efforts at fire discipline, I find X>myself taking fairly high deflection shots - with very poor success. X XFirst learn to nail your targets using low deflection shots. Try flying Xa Zeke against an F4U. You will be able to get on the Corsair's tail Xwith no problem. Experiment with larger and larger deflections, since Xwith the Zeke's maneuverability you can pretty much line up any kind of Xshot you choose. X XYou should know that there is a large damage multiplier for rear shots, Xso they are not only easier to hit with, they make the most of your limited Xsupply of ammo. X X>A few times I've worked my way into lethal position, but still get a X>lousy hit percentage. X XIt sounds like you're trying to sweep your fire across your target. Is Xthat it? Shots are most effective when you have a steady hand while firing. XEither stabilize your plane first or fire in a constant turn. Don't jerk Xthe stick and rudder around while you're firing or you'll probably just Xwaste ammo. This can be done to a small extent to adjust your fire, but Xit takes practice to learn how much you can get away with. X X>I've been flying the Spitfire (which is kinda short X>on ammo anyway), and have never been able to down more than 1 plane before X>I go dry. X XWhat version are you flying? With the later versions (1.09 and up), Xrealistic lethality has been increased substantially, so it takes much Xless ammo to kill targets. Still, I used to be able to get 3-4 kills Xwith a Spitfire before. I was just very selective with my shots. X X>I have all the realism options turned on, which means I have X>the realistic (i.e., small) load. I am using the LCOS typically set at X>500 yards, but am trying to hold my fire until say 300. X XWhen firing at a maneuvering target, I don't bother to open up until XI'm under 300-400 yards away, depending on aspect angle. For a full Xdeflection shot, I try to keep it under 200 yards. X X>I find it much harder to control my closure rate than in any other sim, X>anybody else have this problem? X XWell, these planes are fairly aerodynamic, so they don't bleed speed Xvery quickly unless you're pulling Gs. I don't find controlling closure Xany more difficult than AOTP, myself. If you're talking about simple Xovershoots where you can't match your opponent's turn, that's just a Xtactics problem. X X> Is everyone using realtime, or do you find it better to use X>halftime? X XI only fly real-time. I used to fly half-time, and you do get used to Xit after a while. Like you said, you just have to rely more on the XG meter. X X> Anybody have any success at wingovers? I don't have pedals yet, but X>I'd like to be able to swap ends at the top of zooms (I mean controlled; X>I can do it the other way!). X XHow does a wingover compare to a hammerhead turn? Anyway, hammerheads Xare only possible in the later versions (1.09 and up), and even then Xthey seem to happen pretty slowly. A better bet would be to induce Xa spin and then recover quickly. Easier said than done, but the better Xpilots (not me) can do it in certain planes. X X>Pete 'shooting by Braille' Williams X X:^) X XMORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU (Scott Morgan) writes: X>I have yet to pull a decent wingover. I am using the WCS which controls X>throttle, rudders, flaps, and radar. I'll pull up into near stall kick the X>rudder full over but it does not seem to respond. I should note that X>my plane of choice (I fly little else) is the F4U Corsair. That plane X>may just not be oriented to that type of manuever. X XI think it's difficult in all the planes. The F4U is an excellent plane, Xbut I hate the poor visibility to the rear. X X>> I'd also like to hear some impressions from the nuggets out there X>>on their first experience in the GEnie arenas. X> X>It seems anyone I X>go up against can out turn me to pieces. I try high speed turns, low speed X>turns, high Yo yo, low yo yo, flaps, lower landing gear for brakes. I just X>can't seem to win a head on pass situation. Once the bandits passes by X>he can get on me and fire while I am yelling (literally!!) at my computer X>turn you &*^&*(^& TURN! X XWhat types of planes are you flying against? Sounds like you're dogfighting Xto me, and you can only do that against a P-51, another F4U, or maybe a XKi-84 if you're very good or start with a sizable energy advantage. Against Xanything else you'll probably be toast. You should work on boom and zoom Xtactics, since the Corsair is very well suited to them. X XIn a dogfight from an even start, the outcome is often determined by the Xinitial moves. If you're just boring straight in, you're giving up some Xopportunities to gain an initial advantage. Two good tactics are a lead Xturn or a lazy Immelmann after the pass. The former gives you angles, Xand the latter often gives you an energy advantage. X X>Maybe I'll start flying with the zero! hehehehehe X XThey are a lot of fun! Turns on a dime, blows up if you look at it Xcrosswise. Definitely for the live-fast-die-young type. :^) X XJim Knutson (knutson@mcc.com) writes: X>I have found the LCOS only accurate for the general area of where to X ^ Lead Computing Optical Sight, for those who don't know X>fire and usually have to use short bursts to walk the tracers into the X>target. X>Also, my understanding from the manual was that the range setting X>didn't do anything other than change the size of the sight. X XThat's not true. The LCOS is actually very accurate. I don't use it, Xhowever, since it's too much of a pain to manually adjust the range. XI find my fire accurate enough by just using the tracers, and I'm still Ximproving over time. Some people use the LCOS, and some don't. It's Xjust a matter of preference. X X>> Is there a night other Internet people might be on AW? Maybe we could get X>> a squad of us together to just experiment with all the options for X>> edification and entertainments sake! X> X>There's no Internet squadron (yet), but some of us that have been flying X>IHHD together have started meeting Sat. evenings in the realism arena. X XYes, Scott. Come join us. We start around 8 PM Central time. I only Xshow up every other week or so, but others will be there every week. Send Xme mail if you want email addresses of some people so you can arrange to Xmeet them. X XRob (Sandman, #4366) Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: cooper@grebyn.com (Gary Cooper) XSubject: Air Warrior X X> X> Having about 6 hours of stick time, I am appalled at my lack of X> ability to hit anything smaller than, say, Rhode Island. I was X> pretty good at CYAC, and at least reasonable in F3. Given the higher speeds X> of Falcon, I ought to be real fine at A/W, right? X XWait till you get online - I spurted out about an entire F4U load of .50 Xcal and didn't even scare the bad-guys - and I was getting GOOD at Xoffline deflection shootin'! X> X> I'd also like to hear some impressions from the nuggets out there X> on their first experience in the GEnie arenas. X XJust did that tonight - I'll post my first film in r.g.pc.flight-sim if Xthere is any interest - although it's not something of which I'm proud X XI SWEAR that the entire time I was flying I was *THIS* close to cardiac Xarrest - it has to be the only sit-down, aerobic excercise on the Xplanet! HINT - do NOT take a b&z A/C on your first sortie, I had no Xwhere NEAR the patience required, and it's kind of hard to watch your Xenergy when you're giggling. X> X]] Scott "flying like a rag" in WV [[ X X> Maybe I'll start flying with the zero! hehehehehe X XTried that - boomed an F4U w/out watching alt. - oops! X X> Is there a night other Internet people might be on AW? Maybe we could get X> a squad of us together to just experiment with all the options for X> edification and entertainments sake! X XI would be interested in joining X X X]] Jim Knutson [[ X X> I've been practicing with AW for about a month now and decided to get X> on and fly with some folks this weekend. Well, to make sure I was X> familiar with using GEnie, I decided to get on Friday evening. I X> got through the signup ok, but then was dropped with a note saying X> that my account would not be validated for 2 business days. X Xditto, Jim - signed on this mornin'; called to ask tonight why my Xaccount hadn't been re-upped. :> That big *boink* you all heard tonight Xwas my AW Cherry being popped (It sounds alot like gettin' bounced by an XF4U :>) X X> The moral of the story is don't expect to get on the day you signup. X XSecond moral of the story is "don't expect to D/L any SVGA artwork 'till Xthey get your registration card" (Mine'll be in the mail tommorrow) X X> There's no Internet squadron (yet), but some of us that have been flying X> IHHD together have started meeting Sat. evenings in the realism arena. X XIf you don't mind some non-IHHD types could you post the time? X Xcoop X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: AW - finally a big night X XI'm on the verge of selling Air Warrior - too much money, too much of a Xtemptation, not enough success in the digital skies. Tonight I logged onto XGEnie's billing page and found I had a credit of $4 for the month. Well, XI figured, one more flight for old times' sake. I logged onto the realism Xarena, but found only the usual 8-9 planes. I flew around, stalled, spun, Xgot shot down. Ho hum, I thought, what's up in the normal (non-realism) XPacific. X XFirst, I turned off the LCOS sight and the "local hits" option. That did the Xtrick - I shot down 4 planes this flight, as many as the TOTAL of planes shot Xdown in ALL previous sessions. Climbed to 14k over B-land in my P-38 and Xbagged a B-17, got a C-47, shot down a Zero, and wasted another P-38. Of Xcourse I got over-confident ant got zapped by a Zero - got low and slow and out Xof ideas at the wrong time. X XThis was in the midst of a huge mass of planes - it looked like a scene from Xthe 1968 movie "Battle of Britain". X XI think the limits of the non-realism page are worth it because the only two Xthings that AW provides that its non-network cousins don't are: human allies Xand human opponents. While full realism is no doubt better for head-to-head Xplay, until the reality page gets more users, the normal arena provides the Xintense, unique game experience. X XI may hold on to AW a little while longer... X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Pete Williams" XSubject: AW Gunnery Progress X X Thanks for all the help - maybe it's paying off. I suddenly seem to be Xmore effective - last night (still offline) I was running continuous Xbattles against 4 Spits using the P38. In the first flight I was able to Xdown 6, and in the second I got 7 (I kinda like the P38). X X The LCOS does appear to compute leads at varying ranges - to check Xthis I put on a few G's and changed the range. The 'lag' of the pipper did Xseem to change in the right direction as I pushed the range out. Later I Xwas able to make some medium deflection shots effectively using the sight. XAs long as you are pulling the same G's as the target it works pretty Xwell - of course when you unload for a low G snapshot you have to dial in Xyour own lead. X X Rob, your comment about the increased rear quarter lethality surprised Xme; but based on my experience last night it is true. I obviously expected Xan increased hit probability from the rear, but I expected a decreased Xlethality due to the difference in impact velocities. A bullet hitting head Xon ought to have roughly 50% higher impact speed than one fired from the Xrear - this results in roughly double the kinetic energy (1/2MV**2). XHowever, judging from last night either the lethality is greater in the Xrear quarter, or else the hit probability is so much greater that it washes Xit out. X X Thanks for the info on sound. I have sound 'working' on IRQ2, but now Xhave a new phenomenon - the selected sound options randomly reconfigure Xthemselves. I'll select 'Engine, start, hit, gun' and take off. No sound. XI'll go back to the menu and find the selections shuffled to say 'Bail, Xgrind, stall, and cannon'. The folks at Konami have been very helpful - Xthey have mailed me an update disk even before they had my registration Xcard on file (I'm currently using 1.00). X X[ The sound problem is a bug that is fixed in version 1.06. --Jeff ] X X Hope to see you in the arena in a couple of weeks or so. X X XPete Williams X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 15 ]] END-of-issue015 echo x - issue016 sed 's/^X//' >issue016 << 'END-of-issue016' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I16 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 16 X Wed Jul 28 06:07:31 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X AW Wingovers rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Hammerhead stalls and wingovers... Keith Comeford DTN:381-2246 X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: AW Wingovers X XMORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU (Scott Morgan) writes: X>I have yet to pull a decent wingover. I am using the WCS which controls X>throttle, rudders, flaps, and radar. I'll pull up into near stall kick the X>rudder full over but it does not seem to respond. I should note that X>my plane of choice (I fly little else) is the F4U Corsair. That plane X>may just not be oriented to that type of manuever. X XAfter reading this I picked up an aerobatics book at the library and tried Xto execute the wingover they described. The book calls it a "military Xwingover". It says that you (starting from level flight) dive slightly, Xpull the nose up, and begin a highly banked turn when the nose rises above Xthe horizon. In the diagram, the plane zooms up and over, but is always Xturning - it doesn't hang nose-up like you'd see in a hammerhead stall. XAfter the wingover you should be at the original alititude, but on a Xreciprocal heading. X XI tried it in a P-38 (full realism) and could almost do it, but had to Xrecover from a stall and didn't quite turn 180 degrees. X XIs AW the best simulator for aerobatics? There may be lots of competitive Xnon-combat uses for AW (races, anyone?). X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Keith Comeford DTN:381-2246 XSubject: Hammerhead stalls and wingovers... X XHammerheads and wingovers both involve stalls. In the hammerhead Xthe whole aircraft is stalled, usually pointed straight up. XIf sufficeint engine thrust is available, the plane is "hung on its Xprop" for show for a bit. Its exited by sliding backwards and stomping Xleft or right rudder to have the nose point back at mother earth. XIn a wingover only 1 wing stalls, the inside one I believe. the outside Xone continues to generate lift and with the aid of matching rudder X(i.e. if the left wing is the inside stalled wing, then left rudder is applied) Xthe plane is swung back around. X XThe hammerhead is distinctly NOT BFM, its a real good way to make a target Xof yourself and hang in the sky waiting for bullets or a missile up the Xtailpipe. X XThe Wingover is BFM for the WWI period craft. Because its hard to stall one Xwing without the other being near stall speed a wingover implies slow speed. XIn later craft (WWII and up) where the difference between stall speed and Xcruise/corner speed is much greater (and the time to return to cruise/corner Xspeed is also great) the wingover is dangerous other than to cause an overshoot. XAnd if you succeed in causing said overshoot you'd better KILL that target, Xbecause if he gets away he will have an energy advantage. In a multi-craft Xenvironment (like AirWarrior) a wingover is a fantastic way to die Xin a very pretty maneuver. Remember credo 1 of air combat, Speed is Life. X XThe spin concept isn't bad, but not having played SVGA AirWarrior, XI'm not so sure how easy it is to recover or to initiate. Its usually pretty Xeasy to generate one controlled spin called a snap roll. Just cross the controls X(rudder left, stick back to right for example) and you should perform something Xwith a vague resemblence to a barrel roll (but much faster). I'm not sure I'd Xuse this as BFM either, it bleeds energy in most planes, and is really Xdisorienting. X XI'm a fan of Aerobatics and of flight sims. I've got Aces of the Pacific and XFalcon 3.0d. I also play after work with some local homebrew sims which have Xfairly accurate flight models (thanks to some pilots withing DEC) though Xsimpler graphics (as they were written to run originally on Microvax II, Xa machine about the speed of a slow 386 and didn't use table lookups for Xcalculations and yielded good (10+ fps) frame rates as that is critical for Xmultiplayer sims to the developers feelings). These days they can yield 60-100+ XFPS on modern hardware (usually display limited and throttled back to avoid Xswamping our local network and annoying other network users). X XI'll be honest, most days none of us that fight here get this exotic with Xmaneuvers; Yo-Yos, split S's, immelmans, scissors are pretty standard. Every Xonce and a while someone gets fancy and starts a rolling scissor or a lag roll, Xbut most days they screw it up and die (usually me). I'd stick with the simple Xconcepts embodied in the Bible of FCTM (Robert Shaw) and use and practice those Xfirst, Especially in a N vs N vs N world like SVGA AirWarrior (someday I'll get Xon, but right now I waste my GEnie time with MPBtech :-) (or as used on XGEnie)). X XThanks, XKeith Comeford X X------------------------------- X XFrom: carlos@tick.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carlos Smith) XSubject: Red Baron on TSN? X XWith all of the talk of AW on Genie, I was wondering if anyone has tried XRed Baron on the Sierra Network. Is it full-speed or half-speed like AW? XDo the planes handle as well as they do in the stand-alone game? How do Xgraphics and sound compare? X XAny comments would be appreciated, especially from people who have flown Xboth. X X [ I have flown both. I tried RB on TSN for around 2 months. Basically, X it seemed like an arcade game, with a bunch of "kids" flying. X There was no real planning, just fly solo and do as much damage as you X can. With the limited time of flights (10 minutes, or 3 crashes/killed X I think), you didn't have time to do anything serious. Then, you would X have to "wait in line" to fly again. Not to mention their (lack of) X customer support. When I canceled TSN, I was continued to be billed X for around 6 months. Calls to TSN, and American Express couldn't X resolve it. It took threats of legal action to get them to stop X billing me, and to remove the charges. (after I had not even used the X service for ~6 months, and had notified them in writing to cancel my X account.) Yuck. --Jeff ] X X XCarlos Smith X XInterleaf, Inc. Xcarlos@Ileaf.COM Know Future, Know Chow X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: RB vs TSN X X X>With all of the talk of AW on Genie, I was wondering if anyone has tried X>Red Baron on the Sierra Network. Is it full-speed or half-speed like AW? X>Do the planes handle as well as they do in the stand-alone game? How do X>graphics and sound compare? X X>Any comments would be appreciated, especially from people who have flown X>both. X X>Carlos Smith X X XI have flown both RB and AW. Due to monetary considerations and time XI fly RB on TSN much more than I do AW. In this crowd I am kinda of Xashamed to admit that!!! :-} X XRB and TSN is not the home of the hardcore pilot. It is a much more Xrelaxed area which is more of a gaming arena than a simulator. RB Xis only offered in Sierra Land on TSN. With Sierra Land TSN goes for Xabout 17 /mo for 30 hours. About 50% of the participants in Sierra Land Xare kids under the age of 16. Not to say that they are not good fliers. XThe environment can be a bit too cutesy for the unaware. XYou can fly RB with up to 3 other people (2 on a side) for a dog fight Xthat has a maximum time of 10 minutes (? nine?). In normal mode Xyou get three lives. Shot down three times and you are out of the Xarena. Normal mode give you what the standard flight model in RB stand Xalone gives you, no spins, no gun jams etc. In expert mode you get Xgun jams, wing tip stalls and spins. Yopu can tear the wings of the XNeuport in a dive. You also only get one life in an expert engagement. XThe flight of the planes is very similar to the stand alone version Xand you have access to nearly all the planes of the stand alone version. XEach plane has it's own strengths which must be flown to. An example Xwould be the superior climbing of the Spad vs the greater agility Xof the DR I. XThe TSN network can be flakey at times. Sometimes warping is a big Xproblem. Like in AW I have found ways around it by shooting ahead of the Xtarget and letting the other fly into your bullets. I have been on the Xsix of a foe, and been hit by him! Hmmmmm. TSN can do some wierd things Xat times. Some TSN regulars have hacked their planes. You can tell this Xwhen they fly at the speed of sound and one hit takes you down. It is not Xan significant problem though. X XThrough all of this I actually like TSN and RB. It is a very social place Xand as I work long hours live alone while I complete my graduate Xwork it is a **fun** place to visit. It is quite relaxing to jump in there Xand fly with out getting over worked. X XAW and Genie on the other hand is just the opposite. The AW world Xcenters on realism as much as it can. Members communicate between Xplanes to fly complex missions to take enemy bases and dogfight. XThe AW world is much more expansive and engrossing for a true flight sim Xand air combat fan. It is also a lot more work and more money. Not the Xkind of thing I like to relax to but more of an occupation where you Xget up to get something done. It is emensely satisfying to get up Xwith fellow flight enthusiasts and actually experience aerial combat Xwith knowledgable foes! X XWell you have probably heard alot about AW. Others can expand much more Xthan I can. I will say I have and will keep (for now) both RB on TSN Xand AW on GEnie. RB is arcade style fun with other people who like Xto play interactive games. AW on GEnie is where you go to learn AC with Xfellow flight enthusiasts. It is alot of fun but you have alot more to Xdo and manage to keep your self from being shot to pieces by other Xfliers. As the ad says "...This opponent wants to rip your lungs out" :-) X XEnjoy Cyberspace! X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Tornado SAMs: How to survive (sometimes) X XHi, Xafter several unlogged hours (Cancel-Button) I finally succeeded in completing XMission 3, WZ 1 (wpt X: SEAD, wpt Y: runway). First time I never succeeded in Xpassing waypoint X although I fired my ALARM as soon as the TWI flashed up. XThen I decided to re-read the Man-pages about the ALARM and tried something Xelse. Instead of using the direct mode I fire two ALARMS in indirect mode Xwhen I'm 10 NM far away from X (the "to-go-cycle" at the HUD is at 4 o clock). XIt works! Although the SAM-site shoots up one or two SAMs it is destroyed Xbefore the SAMs reach me :-)) XHas someone else tested that in other missions? X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X XPS: Scott in WV, could You please mail me Your e-mail-address, I can't reach X You. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: AW B-17s X XDoes anyone know if there has ever been an Air Warrior B-17 mission executed Xat historically correct altitudes? X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Beadles XSubject: Re: AW B-17s X X X X>Does anyone know if there has ever been an Air Warrior B-17 mission executed X>at historically correct altitudes? X XWhat is historically correct? I've been on a mission with B17's at a Xspread between 15-20k. (Yes, with P51 escorts.) It takes quite a bit, Xbut it was a blast. It was something like 10 buffs, and 15 escorts. XAs I recall, the escorts didn't even bother with bogies <10k. X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 16 ]] END-of-issue016 echo x - issue017 sed 's/^X//' >issue017 << 'END-of-issue017' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I17 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 17 X Thu Jul 29 05:52:33 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Tornado SAMs: How to survive (s Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Good reading rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Re: Tornado SAMs (Andrew) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado SAMs: How to survive (sometimes) X X X>after several unlogged hours (Cancel-Button) I finally succeeded in completing X>Mission 3, WZ 1 (wpt X: SEAD, wpt Y: runway). First time I never succeeded in X>... Instead of using the direct mode I fire two ALARMS in indirect mode X>when I'm 10 NM far away from X (the "to-go-cycle" at the HUD is at 4 o clock). X>It works! Although the SAM-site shoots up one or two SAMs it is destroyed X>before the SAMs reach me :-)) X>Has someone else tested that in other missions? X XWow! Someone who's finished Mission-3! I never had too much trouble Xwith the outward leg (see below) but I *always* get nailed on the way Xhome where you're supposed to sneak through exactly between two Xslightly overlapping SAM fields. Whats the trick with this part of the Xmission - I've tried a hours of variations but to no avail. XIs absolutely second-on timing crucial? X XAs to suppressing SAM's I've found a very effective method is to arrive Xsay a minute early and go to ~ 430 knows with wings forward and maneuver Xflaps a few seconds before you expect the SAM to light up. Once you're Xilluminate launch an ALARM or two, pull hard for the nearest hill, open full Xreheat, engage terrain following, and pop a bunch of chaff as you crest the Xhill. Provided the geography is right (i.e. the Hill is not too far Xaway or the SAM site too close) you'll ``never'' get hit, and if you Xcome back round hard you'll be roughly on time and the SAM site smoked. X X XAndrew X XPS XHas anyone out there come up with any good ADV interception tactics? XI've tried a few variations on the theme of jumping folks at low-level X(Tornado's home ground) from behind terrain cover and then running away. XThe aim being to use exploit Tornado's hefty fuel reserves and low-level Xperformance to pick off the covering fighters and a few of the strike Xaircraft at long range, and then coming back to pick of the remaining Xfrom behind with heat-seakers. Unfortunately, my piloting skills Xsometimes make the low-level running away bit rather hazrdous :-( X XHas anyone else noticed how aggresive fighters are in comparison with Xgood 'ol Falcon-3? There they the bad guys typically had the manners Xnot to shoot more than one or two missiles. In Tornado they shamelessly Xpeel off more while you're trying to dodge the first few. My record Xstands at 3 radar-guided missiles succesfully dodged, but the fourth Xalways gets me! X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: Good reading X XThe file, "simulator-realism" in the directory X"/misc/av/simulator-folder/the-REAL-thing" at the ftp site, X"rascal.ics.utexas.edu" is well worth a read, and might prompt some Xinteresting discussions here. (In fact, I think it's worth printing Xin the list, but I'll leave that up to the editor.) X X[ This is in the archives as /pub/hitech-sim/text/simulator-realism. X I'll post it in a day or two when the traffic is light, as it's X rather large. --Jeff ] X X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Tornado SAMs (Andrew) X XHi Andrew, X X>Whats the trick with this part of the mission [...] X XMaybe I was just lucky ;-) XI altered the flightplan. I split waypoint H (the one after the Zs of the Xother flights) and set for me another course that allow me to fly on the Xleft around the CAP-area. If You do this You must be *very* careful Xwith Your fuel (longer route)! I always load the maximum 10700 lbs. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 17 ]] END-of-issue017 echo x - issue018 sed 's/^X//' >issue018 << 'END-of-issue018' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I18 *Special Issue* X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 18 X Fri Jul 30 19:44:12 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X MIG-29 information & Falcon 3.02 patch Jeff Beadles X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Jeff Beadles XSubject: MIG-29 information & Falcon 3.02 patch X X XThis special issue of the digest contains information regarding Xthe 3.02 patch to Falcon3, and the Mig-29 release. X XThe Mig-29 add-on to Falcon3 also contains a patch to bring Falcon3 Xto version 3.02. This patch is available via the FTP area on Xonion.rain.com in /pub/falcon3/programs/f302_1.arj and X/pub/falcon3/programs/f302_2.arj The files should be uncompressed Xonto two floppies. There is an "un-arj" program available in X/pub/falcon3/programs/arj230ng.exe. X XRun the Install on the first, and away you go. Note, that this Xwill *NOT* give you the Mig-29 add-on. You must purchase this program Xseperately. X XAttached is the readme for Mig-29, and the 3.02 patch. X XAlso, I can send out floppies with the patch for those without FTP Xaccess, and who don't want to wait for SH. Send me private email X(to jeff@onion.rain.com) for details. (Note, that I'll ask for two Xpre-formatted 1.44mb 3.5" floppies in a mailer, with return postage, Xand a return address label. Anything sent without those will be kept, Xand added to my spare disk pile. :-) X X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X******************************************************* X MiG-29: Deadly Adversary of Falcon 3.0 X Release version 1.0 X 7/19/93 X******************************************************* X XCONTENTS X-------- X X INTRODUCTION X GENERAL TIPS X MIG-29 INFORMATION X Manual errata X CHANGES FOR OPERATION: FIGHTING TIGER AND FALCON 3.0E X Weapons X Campaign, missions and waypoints X Wingman commands X Landing X Miscellaneous X Program fixes X MISSION REQUIREMENTS X MISSION DEBRIEFING X CHANGES FROM FALCON VERSION 3.0 THROUGH 3.0D X Instant Action X Weapons X Autopilot, wingmen and enemy pilots X ECM X Missions X Joysticks, keyboards, mice, etc. X Sound and music X Padlock View X Miscellaneous X X******************************************************* X INTRODUCTION X******************************************************* X X This file contains a listing of all features of X MiG-29 not covered in other MiG-29 documentation or X in the Falcon 3.0 manual. It includes all items X added to the game since Falcon 3.0's first release X (version 3.0). X X It is organized chronologically from newest X information to oldest. The first three sections X (Introduction, General Tips and MiG-29 Information) X should be read by all MiG-29 owners. X X The next three sections (Changes for Operation: X Fighting Tiger and Falcon 3.0e, Mission Requirements X and Mission Debriefing) are for MiG-29 owners who X have Falcon 3.0d but do not have Operation: Fighting X Tiger or Falcon 3.0e. X X The last section (Changes from Version 3.0 through X 3.0d) is only for those who have an early version of X Falcon 3.0 and added MiG-29. X X A complete listing of the features added to Falcon X 3.0 since its original release can be found in X F3README.TXT. In addition, F3README.TXT contains X communications tips and advice on boot disks. X F3README.TXT is placed in your FALCON3 directory as X part of the MiG-29 install or Falcon 3.0 version X 3.02 update process. X X It is strongly recommended that you print both this X file and F3README.TXT and keep them around for X reference. X X******************************************************* X GENERAL TIPS X******************************************************* X X - For setups containing a joystick, ThrustMaster X WCS and rudder pedals, choose "Joystick" instead X of "ThrustMaster" at the System Setup Screen. X X - If you are using a ThrustMaster FCS as your flight X stick, be sure to select "ThrustMaster" at the X System Setup screen. Otherwise, use of the coolie X hat may cause the game to crash. X X - To erase the Instant Action high scores list, X simply erase the file TOPMIG from the FALCON3 X directory by typing "DEL TOPMIG" at the DOS X prompt. X X - When playing a communications session over a X network, players who are using IPX.COM will only X appear as question marks in the player selection X window. X X - When setting up a communications session, be sure X all players select the same theater. This is X especially important when players who have X Operation: Fighting Tiger play against those who X do not have the three additional theaters provided X with that add-on. X X - If you are having problems in network play, make X sure that any players who have SMARTDRV or other X disk caching software turn it off beforehand. X X - In multigame communications, try to have both X flight leaders (MiG-29 and F-16) choose Takeoff at X about the same time for each mission or at least X within 10 or 20 seconds of each other. The MiG-29 X flight leader should be the first to take off. X X - The radio message "Navigation mark x at xxx - X Angels xx - xxx miles" from your Mainstay AWACS X plane describes the direction to your next X waypoint: the number of the waypoint, the compass X direction you should take, the altitude you should X be at ("Angels"), and how many miles away the X waypoint is. Since this is a generic radio X message, the digitized sound sample that X accompanies this message ends after the words X "Navigation mark." X X - ACMI recordings made in MiG-29 have the extension X .VCM and do not appear on Falcon 3.0 ACMI menus. X MiG-29 ACMI recordings are also incompatible with X any version of Falcon 3.0. Likewise, Falcon 3.0 X ACMI tapes are incompatible with MiG-29 and do not X show up on MiG-29's ACMI menus. X X .VCR files created using the ACMI feature are not X compatible between games. This includes all X versions of Falcon 3.0: 3.0a, 3.0c, 3.0d, 3.0e, X 3.01, 3.01.1 and 3.02. X X******************************************************* X MIG-29 INFORMATION X******************************************************* X This section explains some elements of MiG-29 not X documented in the MiG-29 Flight Manual or in the X Installation and Loading Card. X X - There is no ILS mode in MiG-29. To land, you will X have to line up with your final waypoint using the X HSI (see pages 41-44 in the manual). Make sure you X are matched up with the selected radial. This X should line you up almost perfectly with the X runway. X X Gradually reduce speed, keeping an eye on your AOA X gauge in the lower left corner of the HUD. Your X AOA should not exceed 5 degrees. Keep your speed X around 150 knots on the final approach. Lower the X gear. X X At the last moment before touchdown, reduce the X throttle to almost nothing. This will cause the X nose to rise as your AOA approaches 10 degrees. X The plane will drop rapidly, but you should be low X enough that you will touch down rather than crash. X As you touch down, open the drogue chute to X decelerate by pressing "O" (the letter O). When X you feel you have slowed enough, release the chute X by pressing SHIFT-O. If you do not use the drogue X chute, you will overshoot the runway. X X - There is no automatic bomb rippling in MiG-29. All X ripple drops must be done manually. The "'" and X ";" keys no longer have any effect. X X - The automatic cannon will occasionally not fire X when it seems like it should. This is usually due X to multiple aircraft in the laser range finder's X view, which can create wildly fluctuating range X information. The automatic cannon will not fire X until the laser range finder can get consistent X range feedback. X X - The ECM model has been changed to be more X realistic. Instead of consistently jamming radar X or always breaking radar lock, there is now a X continuing battle between ECM systems and fire X control radars. The result is that a plane using X ECM will occasionally still get locked up, but X only for a few moments. Likewise, if you are X tracking a plane that uses ECM, your radar lock X will be broken and re-established over and over X again as your fire control systems battle the X target's ECM. X X - The Russian medals you can be awarded in MiG-29 X and their Falcon 3.0 equivalents are as follows. X Each medal's position in the awards box is also X listed. X X Medal Falcon 3.0 equivalent Position X ---------------- --------------------- ----------- X Order of Glory Distinguished upper left X Flying Cross X Gold Star Bronze Star upper right X Order of the Silver Star center X Red Banner X Order of Lenin Air Force Cross lower left X Order of Victory Medal of Honor lower right X X - If any of your MiG-29 squadron files get damaged, X corrupted or lost, a file called "MIGRESET.EXE" X has been provided which will replace all squadrons X with freshly generated ones and delete any garbage X files which might have been created. Just type X "MIGRESET" at the DOS prompt to clean out garbage X files and replace all MiG-29 squadron files. X X WARNING - this will destroy any saved MiG-29 X campaigns and all existing MiG-29 squadron X information! X X A similar file has been provided for Falcon 3.0 X squadrons. It is called "F30RESET.EXE." X X - There is a slight problem with the Sound Blaster X 16 ASP card. Falcon 3.0 and MiG-29 automatically X detect which sound cards you have when you start X the game. Unfortunately, they detect the Sound X Blaster 16 ASP as a Roland sound card, which X causes Falcon 3.0 and MiG-29 to crash when you try X to run either game. X X To solve this problem, delete the FALCON3.DEF and X MIG29.DEF files before running Falcon 3.0 and X MiG-29 for the first time. Then when you run X either game, select Sound Blaster on the System X Setup screen. You will have to adjust your System X Setup in both games, since each uses a different X settings file. X X - The helmet mounted sight (HMS) is only available X in Padlock View. X X - While in Padlock View, you will not hear lock and X launch tones from your radar warning receiver. X X - When you fly a Red Flag mission, you will be X placed on the appropriate side depending on what X game you are playing. If you are playing MiG-29, X you will be flying on the "Russian" side; if you X are playing Falcon 3.02, you will be flying on the X "American" side. X X Here's an example: In Falcon 3.0 you build a Red X Flag mission where you engage two MiG-29s and X attack an enemy ground force of tanks and trucks. X If you then loaded up that same mission in MiG-29, X you would be flying a mission where you and your X MiG-29 wingman defend a group of friendly trucks X and tanks from a lone attacking F-16. It's the X same mission flown from the other side. X X You are placed in a MiG-29 (or F-16, as X appropriate) leading the first flight. If the X first plane in the first flight is not a MiG-29 or X F-16, but there is such a plane elsewhere in the X first flight, that plane is moved up to flight X leader. For example, if you create a mission in X MiG-29 where you attack a mixed flight of two X C-130s and two F-16s, then load that same mission X in Falcon 3.0, one of the F-16s will become the X flight leader and you will control that plane. X X If there is no F-16 or MiG-29 in the first flight, X then the lead plane in the first flight is X converted into a MiG-29 or F-16 (as appropriate). X For example, if you create a mission in Falcon 3.0 X where you attack five Su-27s, then load that X mission in MiG-29, the lead plane in that flight X of Su-27s will be changed into a MiG-29 which you X will then control. X X - The "trim tab release" and "trim tab compensation" X keys documented on page 16 of the manual require X further explanation. Refer to pages 90-91 of the X manual for a discussion of what the trim controls X do. X X "Trim tab release" releases the trim tabs, X returning the trim control surfaces of the X aircraft to a neutral position. In other words, X you are no longer applying any trim control. When X you release the trim tabs (by pressing "*" on the X numeric keypad), the aircraft will behave X appropriately for its speed and attitude. X X "Trim tab compensation" automatically sets the X trim control surfaces to whatever position matches X your current stick position. For example, if the X nose is rising due to high airspeed, you would X push the stick forward to compensate. Activating X trim tab compensation (by pressing "5" on the X numeric keypad) will automatically adjust the X aircraft's trim to match your stick position so X that you can let go of the stick and the nose will X stay level (assuming your speed, altitude and X attitude do not change). X X - Since the largest bomb available in MiG-29 is the X 500kg FAB-500, which is roughly equivalent in X power to a Mk83 1000lb bomb, there is no way to X destroy certain targets. The targets that a MiG-29 X will be unable to destroy are large bridges, X bunkers and nuclear cooling towers. Also, since X there is no Durandal equivalent, there is no way X for a MiG-29 to disable a runway. X X Obviously, since you cannot destroy these targets, X you will not be assigned missions that require X you to destroy them. X X - In a head-to-head duel, your radar warning X receiver operates slightly differently than in X campaigns. As soon as it detects your opponent's X radar, it will flash one of the two top lights of X your radar warning receiver display to get your X attention. Thereafter, it will function normally, X showing the position of enemy radar emissions. X X - The MiG-29 has a noticeable spool-up time for its X engines. This means that when you advance the X throttle, it takes a certain amount of time for X the engines to catch up with your throttle input. X The F-16 does not suffer this problem, so you X should take this into account in head-to-head X dueling. X X - The joystick calibration routine now includes X coolie hat calibration for ThrustMaster Flight X Control Systems. X X - The coolie hat functions built into MiG-29 X override any other coolie hat programs you may X have installed. Occasionally, there may be a X conflict which can make the game crash. Do not use X any TSRs or other programs (such as Pilot's Edge X or F3COOLIE) that read or reprogram the coolie X hat. X X - ThrustMaster has provided MiG-29 UPROM files for X use with the Weapon Control System (WCS) Mark II X or the WCS Mark I with UPROM upgrade. The files X are called MIG29.MK1 and MIG29.ADV and will be X placed in your FALCON3 directory as part of the X installation process. X X ThrustMaster has also provided a file called X UPROM.TXT that will also be placed in your FALCON3 X directory. UPROM.TXT contains some information on X how to use the UPROM files. Consult your X ThrustMaster UPROM upgrade or WCS Mark II X documentation for more information on using UPROM X files. Contact ThrustMaster for more information X on the UPROM upgrade. X X This UPROM file defaults to the following button X controls for your WCS: X X Thumb X switch Left Center Right Upper Lower Rear X position front front front thumb thumb thumb X -------- ----- ------ ----- ----- ----- ----- X up chaff flares brake target break lock X select lock target X X middle chaff flares brake target break lock X select lock target X X down gear drogue brake target break lock X chute select lock target X X In addition, when you change the thumb switch X position, you issue the following commands: X X Thumb switch to up SCN mode X Thumb switch to middle IRST mode X Thumb switch to down no command issued X X - The term "Ascent Cue" is a misnomer. It was a X preliminary term assigned to the cue box in the X upper right corner of the HUD. X X What this cue actually shows is not the rate of X ascent or descent, but vertical acceleration X (relative to the aircraft, not the ground). This X cue along with the longitudinal acceleration cue X in the upper left and the sideslip ball in the X bottom center make up a suite of instruments X measuring relative acceleration in all three X axes. X X - All menu bar selections are now automatically X saved. X X - The "G ONSET" menu bar selection defaults to X "Moderate." X X - The distance to waypoint shown on the HSI X (horizontal situation indicator) shows the X distance to the radio beacon on the ground. This X means that the distance to waypoint will almost X never be zero, since the plane's altitude is X figured into the distance shown. X X Manual errata X X On page 16, the up and down trim controls are X labeled backwards. Pressing "8" on the numeric X keypad activates nose DOWN trim, while pressing "2" X on the numeric keypad activates nose UP trim. X X On page 28, the manual states that the Kh-23 missile X requires you to keep the target locked until impact. X This is not true. Once the KH-23 is fired, it will X home automatically on its target. X X On page 30, paragraph 3, it should say "If you are X in another mode and wish to switch back to IRST X mode, press F6." The manual mistakenly says "F5." X X On page 37, the Armament Control Panel section twice X mistakenly refers to the "R-23R" missile. It should X say "R-27R" instead in both cases. X X On page 59, paragraph 1, it should say "Press F5 to X switch your radar to SCN mode." The manual X mistakenly says "Press 5." X X******************************************************* X CHANGES FOR OPERATION: FIGHTING TIGER AND FALCON 3.0E X******************************************************* X X Several new features have been added to Falcon 3.0 X since its initial release that apply to MiG-29. X The following features were added in Operation: X Fighting Tiger and Falcon 3.0e and apply equally to X Falcon 3.02 and MiG-29. X X Weapons X - Some missiles have had their ranges increased to X be more realistic. (Example: the Phoenix fired X from the F-14 can now be fired from about 80 miles X away.) X X - The SAM radar cones have been adjusted to be more X realistic. X X - AMRAAMs will now be more realistic and more X effective. X X - Bullet craters have been removed. X X - When following an enemy aircraft that heads X towards the sun, heat-seeking missiles (such as X the R-60, R-73, AIM-9P and AIM-9M) may be fooled X by the heat source. Your best bet is to keep your X position until the enemy is away from the sun X before you fire missiles. X X Campaign, missions and waypoints X - In the campaign, the BOMB waypoint action code X is only available when you are assigned a X bombing mission. X X - The Intelligence option is no longer available X on the Difficulty Levels Screen. Instead, a X Campaign option has been added so that you can X adjust the degree of difficulty of your X campaigns. The three Campaign options are ESY X (easy), STD (standard) and HRD (hard). The more X difficult the setting, the less often you will X receive replacements and resupplies, the more X mobile air defenses will appear in enemy X columns and around enemy targets, and the more X aircraft you will encounter in enemy X formations. The Campaign option will also X affect the Realism Value found in the top left- X hand corner of the Difficulty Levels Screen. X X - Campaign victory or loss will occur when either X side is reduced to 2 strategic sites. X X - The non-mobile SAM sites in the Operation: X Fighting Tiger theaters (Japan, Korea and X Pakistan) will now fire missiles, unlike X stationary SAM sites in the Falcon 3.0 theaters X (Israel, Panama and Kuwait). X X Wingman commands X - Three new wingman commands have been added. X They are SHIFT-G for spread formation, SHIFT-F X for close up formation and SHIFT-H for return X to base. The spread formation command will X double the distance between the planes in the X flight; the close up formation command will X halve the distance. The flight will not spread X out so far that successive planes lose visual X contact with each other. X X The return to base command instructs your X flight to abandon the current flight plan and X return to base by the most direct means X possible. Your wingmen will not follow your X lead any longer nor will they respond to any X more commands. Use this command with care X because you cannot change your mind once you X have given the order. X X When you issue one of these commands, your X wingmen will respond with a radio message to X either confirm that they are carrying out your X orders or to inform you that they cannot carry X them out. X X Landing X - Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) lights X are visual landing aids which let you determine X at a glance whether you are on, above or below X the correct glide slope. VASI lights consist of X two pairs of bicolored lights spaced about 50 X feet apart on the approach end of the runway. The X lights are constructed so that the color you X see as you land is either red or white X depending on whether you are above or below the X glide slope. X................................................................... X The three possible combinations of front and rear VASI lights: X - - - X --- --- --- X --- --- --- X Red 0 ----- 0 Red Red 0 ----- 0 Red White 0 ----- 0 White X ----- ----- ----- XRed 0 ------- 0 Red White 0 ------- 0 White White 0 ------- 0 White X X Too low On glide slope Too high X X VASI lights: "Red over white, all right. White over X red, you're dead!" X................................................................... X The color combination of the front and rear X VASI lights will indicate your position X relative to the glide slope. If both pairs of X lights appear red, then you are below the glide X slope. If both pairs appear white, then you are X above the glide slope. You are on the correct X glide slope when the front pair of lights X appears white and the rear pair appears red. If X you are above the glide slope, push forward on X the stick. If you are below the glide slope, X level out until you intercept it again. VASI X lights will be found at the main air base in X Red Flag as well as at certain airfields in the X campaign theaters. X X X Miscellaneous X - On some of your missions, you might notice a X thick overcast. This is a new weather pattern X which will appear from time to time in the X game. The cover will vary in altitude and X thickness, depending on the atmospheric X conditions. If the current weather forecast on X the Report Screen is listed as "Overcast," X there is a high probability that the weather X will be overcast at the start of your next X mission. X X Program fixes X The following program fixes have been made since X version 3.0d of Falcon 3.0. X X - Pilot Abilities will no longer roll over to zero. X X - Debriefings will now list wingman plane crashes. X X - Extra drag has been eliminated when unlimited X weapons are selected. X X - Cloud density will now match the weather reports. X (This includes having overcast.) X X - Unrealistic messages have been eliminated from X head-to-head communications. X X - Pilot injuries now work correctly. X X - The Sounds off selection for Sound Blaster will X now turn all sounds off. X X - The flight characteristics for heavy aircraft, X like the Tu-22 and An-12, have been improved. They X will fly more realistically and will no longer X crash on landing (assuming, of course, that they X are undamaged before attempting to land). X X - Buildings in Red Flag can now be damaged. X X - The MiG-31, the Mirage 2000, the Jaguar and the X UMF can now be assigned to flights in Red Flag. X X - It is now possible to succeed at escort missions. X X - When flying a communications mission in the Kurile X Islands theater, ships will now appear on all X connected machines, not just the caller's. X X - In the Kurile Islands theater, you will no longer X be assigned missions that require you to violate X the Rules of Engagement. (You can still be X assigned missions that are merely difficult to X accomplish under ROE.) X X******************************************************* X MISSION REQUIREMENTS X******************************************************* X On the Briefing screen, there will be a mission X description for each of the four missions you X fly in a day. This will give you specific X objectives which you must complete in order for X your mission to be counted as a success. X Failure in any area of the mission description X will be tallied as a "mission failure." X X The following section lists the requirements X for successfully completing the missions you X may be assigned. The mission title will be X found on the Campaign Status screen (in the X Report area). The mission briefing will be X similar to the typical briefing given here, but X will be tailored to the situation. Some of the X missions require that you stay on patrol for at X least 10 minutes. In reality, such missions X would last much longer. As one pilot put it, X however, "a combat mission is three hours of X boredom and ten minutes of stark terror." We X decided to leave out the first three hours and X just give you the later 10 minutes. X X Scramble X Typical briefing: "Mainstay has detected a force X of 6 enemy aircraft approaching point A. X Intercept and destroy these aircraft. Do not X let a single enemy aircraft escape." X > Destroy enemy aircraft before they can bomb X allied targets. X > Destroy all aircraft assigned in the mission X briefing. X > At least one MiG-29 must survive the mission. X X Air Superiority X Typical briefing: "Lead a flight of 3 MiG-29s on X a sweep of enemy airspace. Engage and destroy X as many enemy aircraft as possible." X > Destroy more planes than you lose. X > Destroy at least one enemy aircraft. X > At least one MiG-29 must survive the mission. X X Front Line Screen X Typical briefing: "Lead a flight of 4 MiG-29s on X a defensive screen from point A to point B. X Destroy any enemy aircraft encountered in this X area. Mainstay has reported a large strike force X gathering in enemy territory. If they attempt X to penetrate your sector, make sure that no X enemy aircraft survive. Beware of decoys and do X not stray from your assigned area. Stay on X station as long as possible, but return to base X when you are low on fuel or ordnance." X > Destroy any enemy aircraft encountered. X > Destroy any enemy intruders before they are X able to bomb allied assets. X > Sustain your patrol for at least 10 minutes. X > At least one MiG-29 must survive the mission. X X Combat Air Patrol X Typical briefing: "You are assigned to fly a X combat air patrol over point A. Prevent enemy X aircraft from destroying military assets at X this site. Patrol the area until you are low on X fuel or ordnance." X > Destroy any enemy aircraft attacking allied X assets in your assigned sector before they can X inflict casualties. X > Stay on patrol for at least 10 minutes. X > At least one MiG-29 must survive the mission. X X Escort Transport (Milk Run) X Typical briefing: "Congratulations, you get X today's milk run. A flight of An-12s are flying X in supplies. Meet them at waypoint 2 and make X sure they get here." X > Ensure that the transport aircraft make it X safely to their destination. X > At least one MiG-29 must survive the mission. X X Escort Strike or Bombers X Typical briefing: "Your mission is to escort 4 X Tu-22s on a strike against point A. On approach X to the target, sweep ahead to clear any enemy X interceptors from the strike force's path." X > Provide fighter escort to ensure that strike X aircraft make it to their destination. X > Your flight must fly to within 10 nm of the X target waypoint. X > At least one MiG-29 must survive the mission. X X Close Air Support X Typical briefing: "Elements of Company C, 3rd X Armored Cavalry Division have come under heavy X attack from an enemy tank column. The command ALO X has requested Frontal Aviation to stem the enemy X thrust." X > Destroy enemy ground forces at the assigned X location in a timely fashion. To succeed you X must ensure that the enemy takes more X casualties than the allied forces. X X Ground Strike X Typical briefing: "Reconnaissance has spotted a X large concentration of enemy forces near point A. X Lead a flight of 4 MiG-29s and destroy as many enemy X units as possible." X > Destroy at least 20% of the enemy forces at X the assigned location. X X Bomb X Typical briefing: "Today's ATO calls for a X strike against strategic targets located at X point A." X > Destroy the target listed by the Target button X on the Waypoint Setup screen at the location X assigned by the mission briefing. You may X select a different target with the Target X button, but you may not move the waypoint to X attack targets at a different location. X X Tactical Air Reconnaissance X Typical briefing: "Fly to waypoint 2, then X return to base." X > Fly to within 10 nm of the assigned destination. X > At least one MiG-29 must survive the mission. X X******************************************************* X MISSION DEBRIEFING X******************************************************* X The Debriefing has three main sections. The X first section will trace your flight path, X listing any events occurring during the X mission. It will list only those events that X involve your immediate flight. Such events as X enemy aircraft shot down, enemy ground forces X destroyed, wingmen lost and crashes with the X ground will be listed. To continue with the X debriefing, press the Continue button. Pressing X Next Mission will skip the rest of the X Debriefing. X X After the Mission Trace, you will be informed X whether or not any of your pilots received a X medal. If none of them warranted a medal, this X screen will be empty; otherwise, the pilot's X name and the name of the medal will be X displayed. X X Finally, the Mission Summary portion of the X debriefing will rate your mission a success or X failure, providing a brief explanation if your X mission was a failure. There may be several X possible reasons for failing a particular X mission; the Mission Summary will only list the X most obvious. X X If the Debriefing judges your mission a X failure, you will be given one of the following X or similar reasons: X X > No enemy aircraft were shot down. X > You failed to destroy a single enemy unit. X If you are given one of these reasons for X failing your mission, then you were assigned to X attack a particular type of enemy unit but did X not destroy even one. X X > Too few enemy aircraft were shot down. X > You failed to completely destroy the enemy strike X force. X > You inflicted only minor damage on the enemy X forces. X In general, air-to-air missions require that X you destroy a particular formation of aircraft X or at least destroy more aircraft than you X lose. Air-to-ground missions generally require X that you destroy a significant percentage of X the enemy troops at the assigned target. X X > You failed to destroy the primary target. X > You hit the wrong target. X > You did not hit the assigned target. X You will get one of these messages if you fail X to destroy the proper target at the assigned X location on a bombing mission. X X > You failed to reach your assigned target. X > You failed to reach your assigned station. X > You failed to escort the aircraft all the way to X the target. X Some missions require that you fly to within 10 nm X of your assigned target waypoint. This is to X ensure either that you attack the correct X targets or that you stay with escorted aircraft X all the way to the target. X X > The enemy conducted successful attacks through X your sector. X > None of the escorted aircraft survived. X > Allied losses were unacceptable. X > Allied ground forces were defeated. X You will get one of these messages if you are X assigned to protect allied troops or assets and X the enemy succeeds in destroying them. X X > The enemy operation succeeded. X You will get this message if enemy paratroopers X are able to land and deploy to their assigned X positions. X X > Your flight was eliminated. X Air-to-air missions require at that least one X member of your squadron survives. X X > You ended the mission too soon. X You will get this message if you end the X mission early, leaving allied forces X unprotected and in danger. X X The Mission Summary also tallies enemy and X allied losses which occurred during the mission X and provides the post-mission status of all X your squadron's pilots who flew sorties during X the mission. The status of a pilot can be X active, injured, court-martialed, POW (prisoner X of war), MIA (missing in action) or KIA (killed X in action). Only pilots with an active status X will be available for the next mission. Injured X pilots will be put back on the active roster as X soon as they have recuperated enough to fly. X Pilots with any other status will never fly X again. (Pilots who show up with an asterisk in X front of their name have become so battle X fatigued that their abilities are impaired. You X may still select them for missions, but you X should only do so as a last resort. A pilot who X is so fatigued that he is incapable of flying X is listed as injured.) X X Pressing Continue after the Mission Summary X will display the Occupation Screen, which shows X the current state of the war in terms of the X territory held by each side. This screen will X only change once per day. From there you can X replay the Debriefing from the start (in case X you missed something), check your squadron X records or go on to your next mission. X X******************************************************* X CHANGES FROM FALCON VERSION 3.0 THROUGH 3.0D X******************************************************* X The following section outlines the changes that X have been made in earlier versions of Falcon 3.0 X which affect MiG-29. The changes are arranged by X topic, not by version. X X Instant Action X - After you destroy a certain number of enemy X aircraft in Instant Action, you will advance to X the next level of play. Every enemy pilot in this X new wave of aircraft will have an Enemy Logic X Level one higher than the one you set in the X Configuration screen. (For example, if you had X Enemy Logic Level set to Veteran in the X Configuration screen, the next wave of aircraft X will have Ace pilots.) After the Ace aircraft X wave, all pilots in subsequent waves will have X Ace logic level. X X Weapons X - A-A missiles and SAMs are more realistic. They can X acquire you much easier and ECM is no longer a X foolproof method of defeating them. In addition, X proximity hits from missiles are now accounted X for; a missile may detonate when it comes close to X your aircraft, causing minor damage from X fragmentation. X X - When you are loading weapons onto a wingman's X aircraft, the Report button on the MiG-29 Armament X screen will change to a Copy Leader button. X Pressing this button will load the same weapons on X the currently selected aircraft as are currently X loaded on the flight leader's aircraft X X - Weapons can be cleared in all weapon loading X screens. X X - The jettison controls now allow you to selectively X jettison stores: X X CTRL-K jettisons all stores except for wingtip X missiles (on the MiG-29, this means the missiles X on the outermost pylons remain). X X CTRL-F jettisons all external fuel tanks (both X centerline and wing). X X Autopilot, wingmen and enemy pilots X - The autopilot's bombing accuracy has been X improved. X X - The autopilot now realizes when it has gone X winchester. X X - The artificial intelligence has been improved to X allow for autopilot bombing and landing (however, X if you are damaged, there are no guarantees). X Enemy pilot logic has also been improved--enemy X aircraft are now more aggressive at higher logic X levels. X X - Enemy aircraft can no longer detect an IR missile X lock-on. X X - Pilots involved in a campaign can no longer X recover fatigue by flying in Red Flag missions. X X - Wingmen now receive their assigned weapons load X when the Limited Weapons option is set to "OFF." X X - One of the features we added is called the "life X after death" view. Life after death allows you to X view the action in a Red Flag or campaign mission X even if the plane you're flying has been X destroyed. If your plane crashes into the ground X or you are wiped out by a missile, the mission X will not immediately end. A dialog box will appear X informing you of your death and giving you the X opportunity to watch the rest of the mission from X your wingmen's point of view (if you have any on X the mission). X X - You can now see the action from any of your X wingmen on the flight by pressing the "7" key X to change your view from wingman to wingman. If X you want to watch a different target from the X wingman's view, press the "T" key. If all of X your wingmen are destroyed, the mission will X end. Otherwise, the only way to end the mission X (save for its completion) is to select End X Mission from the FILE menu. X X - Computer-controlled planes now jettison stores X based on skill level. Also, heavy bombers will not X jettison stores under any circumstance. X X ECM X - ECM, chaff and flares have greater effect. ECM X now works against all aircraft and radar-guided X missiles, not just ground units and SAMs. X X - Enemy aircraft that are randomly given ECM pods X will use them according to their skill level. X X - Computer-controlled aircraft (both friendly and X enemy) will use ECM pods with more intelligence. X X Missions X - Aborting missions will no longer consume supplies X or add to the mission count. X X - Unused stores at the end of a mission are now X restored to your inventory. X X - External fuel tanks added by the user are now X loaded correctly. X X Joysticks, keyboards, mice, etc. X - If you are using QEMM and a Logitech mouse, you X may experience some problems with moving the X pointer. The pointer may move sluggishly and draw X multiple images of itself on the screen. If that X is the case, this can be corrected by entering X your CMOS setup and turning off the BIOS Shadow X RAM. Consult the manual for your computer to see X how to shut off BIOS Shadow RAM. X X Sound and music X - Digitized radio messages on the Thunderboard and X Sound Blaster now work more reliably on fast X machines such as 33MHz 486s and with a bus speed X faster than 8MHz. X X - Systems with only 1MB of total RAM and no sound X card need to set Sound and Music to PC Speaker in X the Configuration screen. This will allow you to X hear guns, lock-on tones, enemy lock and launch X warnings, stall warnings and a caution tone. X Digitized voices are not supported on machines X without expanded memory (EMS). X X - If you have a sound card and the Music option X is turned on (from the Configuration screen), X the type of music you hear will indicate how X well you are doing in the war. X X Padlock View X - The following names will appear in the Padlock X Status Window when you have padlocked a missile X (regardless of the specific designation of the X missile): X > AIM-9P - rear-aspect IR air-to-air missile X > AIM-9M - all-aspect IR air-to-air missile X > SPARROW - semi-active radar air-to-air missile X > AIM-120 - active radar air-to-air missile X > PHOENIX - active radar air-to-air missile X > SAM (R) - any radar SAM X > SAM (IR) - any IR SAM X X - The Padlock View can lock onto the runway for X landing. This may help you make an efficient turn X on the last leg of a racetrack landing pattern. X You must be fairly low and close to the runway, X however. You should also be wary of becoming X disoriented while using the Padlock View so close X to the ground. X X Miscellaneous X - Users of joysticks with a throttle, such as the X CH FlightStick or the Kraft Thunderstick, have X the option of turning off the joystick's X throttle and using the "+" and "-" keys on the X keyboard instead. During joystick calibration, X you will be given the option of using the X throttle wheel or not. Just press "N" for X "No." If you change your mind, simply X recalibrate your joystick. X X If you use the throttle wheel for throttle X control, you must first advance the throttle X several clicks and then press the "+" key on X the keyboard to start the engine. You will then X be able to control the engine RPM with the X joystick throttle wheel. X X - In head-to-head mode, shutting off one player's X radar will remove blips from the other player's X Threat Warning Indicator or Radar Warning X Receiver. X X - In all flight models, airspeed will increase X during dives. X X - Glare caused by the sun now occurs at the X appropriate climb and heading. X X - The appropriate pilot skills will increase upon X completion of a successful Red Flag mission. X X - Anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) effectiveness is now X greatly increased. The amount and type of damage X depends on factors such as airspeed, altitude and X distance from the artillery. X X - If the radar lock on an enemy aircraft becomes X unstable, the sides of the target designator box X will change to broken lines. If this happens, X don't fire a missile until you get a stable radar X lock on the target. X X - If a given waypoint has an air-to-air mission X such as CAP or INTRCEPT, the waypoint will not X automatically increment until after all hostiles X either depart or are shot down. X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 18 ]] END-of-issue018 echo x - issue019 sed 's/^X//' >issue019 << 'END-of-issue019' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I19 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 19 X Sat Jul 31 11:01:37 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado: Mission Impossible etc. eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dort X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: Tornado: Mission Impossible etc. X XHi! X XHas anybody completed Mission 17, war zone 1? X("ADV: night intruder", I think). The briefing Xtells you to engage "any and all" enemy a/c. XTo succeed, you have to destroy a CAP, but there is none X(I think). The canned flightplan is an intercept mission Xof an enemy AWACS, so maybe this is a bug. X X(no, I'm not going to write DI about this. I sent them X two bug reports and some questions: no answer. X Either my mails did not arrive or DI is not interested at all) X XHome made patch: Change the last line in the X(text) file ..../tornado/amp/map2/miss17.mis : XNow: X X:TargetCap X XFix: X X:TargetAWACS Xor even X:TargetFreeFire X XNow you can complete the mission by destroying the AWACS Xor just any a/c , resp.. X X#include X XHave you tried to manipulate the log-files, yet (promotion etc)? XThis will be a hard job to do. TORNADO seems to encrypt Xthe log files and attach a "digital signature" to it. So you can't Xjust change some bits and see what the result is: Tornado will Xmost likely notice that the files were tempered with and refuse to Xrun! Nice!! X XBTW: Has anybody else tried to run TORNADO under Windows 3.1? XThe manual explicitly states this will not work, but I do it all the Xtime and it works fine. No problems that I do not also encounter Xunder MS-DOS alone. Even Falcon 3.0d seems to run, but with low detail Xand without *digitized* sounds, at least on my sound Xhardware). X X XP.S. Scott (MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU), like Joerg Stenger, I too may X have problems reaching you. I got your message of 07/15, X have you received my replies? XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 19 ]] END-of-issue019 echo x - issue020 sed 's/^X//' >issue020 << 'END-of-issue020' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I20 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 20 X Mon Aug 2 17:45:31 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X AW / On-line Play ADAMS@jdola.lanl.gov X Tmaster address MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Re: AW / On-line Play knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: ADAMS@jdola.lanl.gov XSubject: AW / On-line Play X XWould some kind soul (o.k., so that leaves out 95% of this list :) Xplease tell me exactly what version of AW I need to play on-line? I have Xversion 1.00 and some additional 1.06 files (airwar.exe, terrain.dat) Xthat I have placed in my airwar directory. X XAlso, what's the story with all this beta code going around. Is it useable Xjust in H2H mode, or are there certain 'pages' on GEnie that allow the Xbeta versions to work. Thirdly, how do you get these beta versions? X XFinally, exactly when do members of this group (Jim, Robin, etc.) get Xtogther on GEnie? (I've heard Saturday nights). Let me know, I'd like Xto [try to] fly with you'se guys. X X--- Gavin "Boo Boo" Adams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Tmaster address X XHi all, XI got a bad pot in my FCS and would like to email Tmaster. I know Xthey have an account on Prod., C$erve, and GEnie (?) Anyone have Xthere email addresses at anyone of these sites? X XTHanks XSCott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: AW / On-line Play X X> Would some kind soul (o.k., so that leaves out 95% of this list :) X> please tell me exactly what version of AW I need to play on-line? I have X> version 1.00 and some additional 1.06 files (airwar.exe, terrain.dat) X> that I have placed in my airwar directory. X XWell, how about I give you 5% of a kind answer and 95% grief? XYou can use 1.06 or 1.07 on page 870. You need 1.10 or 1.11 to fly Xon page 869 (real time) or the test page (can't remember the number). XNow go away dweeb, you bother me :-). X X> Also, what's the story with all this beta code going around. Is it useable X> just in H2H mode, or are there certain 'pages' on GEnie that allow the X> beta versions to work. Thirdly, how do you get these beta versions? X XSee above. X X> Finally, exactly when do members of this group (Jim, Robin, etc.) get X> togther on GEnie? (I've heard Saturday nights). Let me know, I'd like X> to [try to] fly with you'se guys. X XWhy, we fly whenever we get the chance of course :-). Some are in Xsquadrons and fly whenever the squadron does. The rest of us have been Xgetting on Sat. nights around 8pm CDT. I've missed the last two XSaturday nights :-( for one reason or another, but there are others. I Xthink most of us prefer to fly in the realtime arena for a variety of Xreasons. First, it's more realistic. Second, it doesn't feel like you Xare flying through syrup (this is your brain on drugs ;-). Third, it's Xharder to get hits and be hit, so you might end up in the air longer. XFourth, the pace is fast and furious and thoroughly heart pounding. X XI got the shakes after my first kill due to the adrenaline rush. Ended Xup crashing while landing at my base. I wonder if there's any such thing Xas adrenaline addiction? X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 20 ]] END-of-issue020 echo x - issue021 sed 's/^X//' >issue021 << 'END-of-issue021' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I21 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 21 X Tue Aug 3 20:43:08 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Comprehensive (fairly) email addres cooper@grebyn.com (Gary Cooper) X Re: AW / On-line Play Mark Kuebeler XSubject: Re: AW / On-line Play X X> X>Also, what's the story with all this beta code going around. Is it useable X>just in H2H mode, or are there certain 'pages' on GEnie that allow the X>beta versions to work. Thirdly, how do you get these beta versions? X XBeta updates can be downloaded from the Air Warrior library on page X870 (m870;3). You need to have mailed your $50 credit application Xto Kesmai to get access to the library that has the SVGA Extra Files, Xincluding beta updates. Unlike the upgrade to the current 870 version, Xbeta upgrades are not free downloads and are billed at the $3/hour rate. X XThe beta version is usable on the scenario page (p867), and with a Xspecial terrain data file on the test page (p869). X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 21 ]] END-of-issue021 echo x - issue022 sed 's/^X//' >issue022 << 'END-of-issue022' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I22 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 22 X Thu Aug 5 12:44:26 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X F15III patch, Tornado... Wilson Chiu XSubject: F15III patch, Tornado... X XHi there, X XJust a couple of things...Does anyone on this list have the F15 III Xstrike Eagle patch? The one that gives you a new campagine in Iraq? I Xdid have it but when I trashed my hard disk last month, that was one Xof the things I can't get hold of again. X XAbout Tornado, are people out there still struggling with the missions Xand those SAMs? Or am I the only one left who is still getting frustrated Xabout having to cancel missions? There was this time I managed to get Xthrough a mission after about 4 times, and managed to get to within Xsight of the airfield and guess what? Fucked up the landing - still Xhaven't complete that particular mission to this date. X XCheers, X XWils X X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: FA 18 and Nukes X XHi all, XGee, with Mig 29 just hitting the streets, am I the only one here? :-) X XAnyway a discussion of Nukes and sims is goin on over in the Falcon3 Xdigest. This brought back to mind something I was reading on Prodigy way Xback in april or May (I left before price hikes took place :-( XA fellow was talking about an F/A-18 sim that was close to being released Xfor the Macintosh of all things ;-0 This sim (as was described) was Xquite the cutting edge sim allowing two monitors to be used simultaneously Xand the like. The one thing that the sim was going to have was Xnuclear weapons. Apparently working these into the sim the reason for the Xhold up at that time. X XHas anyone seen or heard of this sim? Has it been released yet and have you Xtried it? I would hate to have to buy a second computer platform with Xtwo monitors just to play a sim! I mean, heck, I wouldn't upgrade Xto a 486 just to run sims!! Uh, wait, I did do that didn't I? :-) X XScott "getting more broke by the day" in WV XMorgab@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 22 ]] END-of-issue022 echo x - issue023 sed 's/^X//' >issue023 << 'END-of-issue023' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I23 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 23 X Fri Aug 6 12:30:14 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Seawolf paulwang@uclink.berkeley.edu (Paul X Tornado Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X F15III patch n921w4@pnet16.cts.com (Robert Snyde X Re: F15III patch Jeff Beadles X What is a 'Flat Turn' ? "Pete Williams" writes: X X: About Tornado, are people out there still struggling with the missions X: and those SAMs? Or am I the only one left who is still getting frustrated X: about having to cancel missions? There was this time I managed to get X: through a mission after about 4 times, and managed to get to within X: sight of the airfield and guess what? Fucked up the landing - still X: haven't complete that particular mission to this date. X XYou're not the only one. According to info on Compuserve, Digital XIntegration is planning a patch to make the SAM's less deadly--but still Xdestructive. They'll allow for a proximity hit, thereby damaging some Xsystems but not nuking the whole plane. X XThere's no time frame given for the upgrade, but someone one Compuserve who Xhas been relaying messages to DI states that DI has said the upgrade would be Xout "real soon now," even in a matter of days. X XWe'll see. Anyway, at least they're talking about upgrading. X X-- X X Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh? X Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117 X XLigneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous Xstructure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: n921w4@pnet16.cts.com (Robert Snyder) XSubject: F15III patch X XFor Wilson Chiu: MPS BBS 1-410-785-1841 if you want to pay for the long Xdistance charges. GL Bob X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Beadles XSubject: Re: F15III patch X X XIf someone wants to upload them to onion.rain.com, I'll make a home for Xhitech-sim patches as well. X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Pete Williams" XSubject: What is a 'Flat Turn' ? X X I had really hoped I could figure this out, but after two weeks and a Xfair amount of research I have to admit failure... X X What is a 'flat turn'? AW shows graphs and numbers for this Xanimal, but I haven't figured out what it is and why it is useful. XWhat is the value of the 'maximum speed in a flat turn'? X X I guessed that a flat turn was one without banking (level wings Xand rudder), but why would there be a maximum speed (other than Xairframe/power considerations)? Is this just a measure of the Xeffectiveness of the rudder? Do they really mean 'minimum speed'? X X Thanks for any help.... X X XDummy X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Tornado: Registering / Re: Patch X XHello to all the lonly ones, X XIn fact I must admit that the last day I "flew" more often an F 16 than Xa Tornado (MiG 29 will be released in Germany at the end of August). X XI sent my registration to DI 4 weeks ago and still have heard nothing from Xthem. What's about You? X XMy question about the patch Joel Murray wrote of is: where will it be Xavilable? If it would be available to registered users only: see above :-( X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 23 ]] END-of-issue023 echo x - issue024 sed 's/^X//' >issue024 << 'END-of-issue024' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I24 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 24 X Sat Aug 7 22:41:50 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado Patch Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X Re: F15III patch, Tornado... Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) XSubject: Tornado Patch X Xstenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) writes: X X: Hello to all the lonly ones, X XI can't say I'm one of those, but "hi" anyway! :-) X X: I sent my registration to DI 4 weeks ago and still have heard nothing from X: them. What's about You? X XNothing, but then again, Spectrum Holobyte distributes Tornado here in North XAmerica. X X: My question about the patch Joel Murray wrote of is: where will it be X: avilable? If it would be available to registered users only: see above :-( X XI wish I could tell you. The talk on Compuserve was that it might be shipped Xout to registered owners or even uploaded to Compuserve. X XI would imagine that should the patch make its way to Compuserve, someone Xwill eventually upload it to an ftp site. X-- X X Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh? X Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117 X XLigneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous Xstructure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: F15III patch, Tornado... X X XWils writes: X X>About Tornado, are people out there still struggling with the missions X>and those SAMs? Or am I the only one left who is still getting frustrated X>about having to cancel missions? There was this time I managed to get X>through a mission after about 4 times, and managed to get to within X>sight of the airfield and guess what? Fucked up the landing - still X>haven't complete that particular mission to this date. X XI too initially found the SAMs utterly lethal. However, as I Xget into the game I've found I'm beginning to get the knack of Xhandling them. Hints so far: X X* Keep pumping that chaff - without a tell-tale range reading a la XFalcon's padlock view timing chaff is tricky. If you're not pumping Xit out pretty densely you seem to be much more likely to be hit. X X* Think about the flight plan. If your friends are suppressing XAA using indirect ALARM fire make damn sure you arrive late enough for Xthe ALARMS to get down to their targets from 10,000 feet (23 seconds Xthe manual says). X X* Don't be afraid to cook the flight plan a little - your mission Xplanners are just ground-based paper pushers! I found the flight Xfor several missions could do with a little gentle optimisation. XThat, presumably, is why they give you the option of changing it! X X X* Maneuvre! Sams are definately dodgeable. Even if you're primary Xstategy is to run away it helps a lot if you're not giving the SAM Xstraight-and-steady target. I find the F9 terrain following mode Ximmensely useful for this. Just cut it in and work the stick to set Xsome bearing that will have you turning as hard as the autopilot will Xallow. You won't turn terribly hard, but you stay real low, won't hit Xthe dirt, and it leaves your hands/brain free for a second or two to Xfigure out something clever. Stuff that has worked in the past: Xdisappear over a convenient ridge, run like crazy whilst working the Xauto-pilot bearing to keep making turns, get as close as poss. to Xcorner velocity with maneuvre flaps down and make a hard (manual!) pull Xto dodge as the missile gets closer. X X* The pre-planned converse of this is that if you think you might have Xtrouble with a SAM at some point: why not `bend' the flightplan Xmanually (F9 again!) to ensure you're in a tactically sensible Xattitude when you arrive. You want to avoid at all costs being Xheaded straight at the launcher going too fast to turn well but too slow to Xblast past and over a hill before they get a decent shot. X X* Hone those piloting skills! I find that, despite the auto-pilots, I Xneed to fly better in Tornado than I do in Falcon. Why? Because you Xhave all kinds of constraints that you don't usually have in Falcon: Xyou're close to the deck, you don't want to get too high in case the Xbig bad interceptors spot you, and you typically have less time because Xlow-level also tends to mean short ranges. X XI still vividly remember the 1st mission I *flew* my way out of Xtrouble: jumped by an unexpect SAM site, launch ALARM then hard X(manual) maneuvre over a hill popping chaff to dump the first missile, Xdodge the second after the launcher is smoked but get too high and am Xdetected by an interceptor. Dodge the interceptor's radar missile pop Xa ``discouraging'' side-winder at him and use the delay to drop to Xterrain following and run away down a valley. Wish I could steer Xwell enough to do that more than once in a blue moon... X X XAndrew XPS XGlad to hear that the rumoured patch will allow for SAMs just causing Xdamage as well as total destruction. It always struck me a bit Xsilly that they had all that stuff for flying on one engine and with Xbits not working and then only made use of it for AAA hits. XQuite apart from the fact that real life SAMs are almost invariably Xblast-fragmentation with proximity fuses and thus very often do just Xdamage as well as kill. X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 24 ]] END-of-issue024 echo x - issue025 sed 's/^X//' >issue025 << 'END-of-issue025' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I25 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 25 X Mon Aug 9 05:32:56 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Harpoon 3.02 Robear X Invitation to join SVGA Air Warrior rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (useradd) X Re: Tornado: SAMs (Andrew) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Tornado replies, thanks... Wilson Chiu XSubject: Harpoon 3.02 X X XWell, I just applied the patch for this. What do people think of it? It Xseems faster, and the enemy was certainly tougher. Planes will go high-alt Xin safe ares, then drop to low in enemy radar coverage. Little things like Xthat. Is it really as cleaned up as it seems? X XHow are the scenarios in HDS II? X X David Pipes X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (useradd) XSubject: Invitation to join SVGA Air Warrior Ladder X X X[ This is welcome on this mailing list for now, as long as it's not for X profit, and doesn't get totally out of hand. My comments are X injected below as well, between []'s. -Jeff ] X XI'm trying to organize a competition ladder of SVGA Air Warrior. XSVGA Air Warrior is a WWII airplane simulator that can Xbe played head to head over the internet. If you are Xinterested in joining please read the rules below and send email Xto Bob Crane (rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu). I will also be happy to Xanswer any questions not addressed by the rules below. X XCurrently, there is no forum to place AW ladder challenges. XJim Knutson suggested that I ask the people on the hitech-sim Xmail list if they would mind this sort of traffic until Xa more permanent forum could be found. What do you Xpeople think about this? X XCheers. X-bob crane X--------------------- X RULES FOR INTERNET SVGA AIR WARRIOR LADDER X XThe following rules shall be subject to change, based on member input, on a Xmonthly basis, until they become more solid, and then subject to revision on Xa more limited basis as determined by the rules committee. X X[ Who is "The Rules Committee"? --Jeff ] X XAIR WARRIOR X X1. The internet SVGA AW ladder will be played through the internet X using the dialer software. This software is available via anonymous X ftp at cactus.org in the directory "pub/IHHD". The file, X Design.doc, explains how to use the dialer software and the file, X dialer1.6.3.shar, is the dialer source code. You can email X Bob Crane (rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu) if you have any questions X about how the dialer software works or how to get it compiled X on your system. X X If you want more information about the dialer software or want X to find players for other modem games you can subscribe to X the IHHD mailing list. If you want to subscribe to this list X send email to listserv@cactus.org with the text X "subscribe ihhd ". X X Individuals who are unable to to get the dialer software to run X on their systems may also participate if they agree to incur all X costs of long distance phone calls for ALL challenges given and X received. X X All participants must be able to send and receive email through the X internet to join the ladder. In addition, each participant will X need the latest official release of SVGA Air Warrior. Currently, X this is version 1.07 or 1.06. In addition, newer beta releases may X also be used (currently V1.11) if agreeable to both participants. X X The only other requirement is that participants must be able to X communicate at speeds no slower than 2400 baud. X X2. Anyone wishing to join the ladder should send email to the current X administrator, Bob Crane (rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu). The message X must include the following: X X 1. The pilots request to join the ladder. X 2. The pilot's real name. X 3. A handle or Nom de Guerre X 4. The pilot's internet email address. X 5. The pilot's phone number. X X The person's name will be added to the bottom of the ladder. X X3. Every month the ladder shall change theaters. The first ladder shall X be in Europe. Planes available in a particular theater will be based on X the aircraft historically present in a given theater as follows: X X Europe South Pacific X P-38 P-38 X Spitfire F4U Corsair X Mustang Mustang X FW190 KI-84 Frank X BF109 A6M5 Zero X Hellcat Hellcat X Thunderbolt X Yak-9 X X [ I'd suggest that you use the same names as AW does. Eg: P51. X Where's the Hellcat, Thunderbolt? -Jeff ] X X4. One may only challenge the two positions immediately above himself. X X X5. A challenge is constituted by a message sent to the Air Warrior mailing X list (currently just send email to rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu). The person X being challenged shall have one week from the date of the challenge to X respond. Failure to respond within one week will result in the challenger X winning just as if he shot his enemy down in combat. Once a challenge has X been accepted it is the challenger's responsibility to negotiate with X his enemy the date and time combat is to take place. Combat must take X place within one week after a challenge has been accepted. X X [ What if someone goes on vacation? --Jeff ] X [ Would you like me to run this mailing list on onion.rain.com, as X a non-digestified list? --Jeff] X X5. The challenger, if the winner, will assume the place of the loser. The X loser will be pushed back one rung with those below all being degraded to X the next lowest rung. X X6. The winner will be determined by the winner of two out of three X dogfights. The winner in any one dog fight shall be the pilot still X aloft when the fight ends. I.E. if one is shot down, bails out, spins and X crashes, or his plane explodes from gunfire he has lost that individual X fight. In addition, if the connection is terminated while a fight is X in progress then the fight will be replayed. X X [This is asking for trouble. I'm low on gas & ammo, and disengaging. X I see someone on my 6, closing for the kill, so I reach for the modem X and turn it off. ACK! I was dumped. NOT! It might not be fair, X but I think that there's no other way. (as does Kesmai). --Jeff ] X X7. Should a pilot expend all his ammo, or if he judges himself to be low on X fuel, or for whatever reason believes he must disengage, he may land AT X AN AIRFIELD ONLY IN HIS OWN COUNTRY. If he lands (without crashing) on a X paved strip and achieves zero knots speed without being destroyed by his X enemy then that single fight is a draw. If a pilot is in a landing X pattern, or on the ground but moving, and his plane is destroyed by the X gunfire of his opponent, then he loses that single fight. Draws X will be replayed. X X [ This means one of the labeled airfields, and not a neutral field? -Jeff] X X8. Once both planes are in the air combat commences. The only X requirement is that pilots fly toward each other initially until X visual icon distance is acquired. This is the only merge requirement. X X [ Do you have to return to base between fights? If not, then the X the winner of the 1st battle has a VERY clear advantage... --Jeff] X X9. There shall be no limit on aircraft except those already noted. X X [ Is there no advance notification needed? (Do I have to tell my X opponent what plane I'll be in?) --Jeff ] X X10. All reality modes EXCEPT LEATHALITY shall be set to real. Combat X will be fought in real time. If both pilots agree, then leathality X may also be set to real. X X11. There shall be no limits on fuel loads selected. X X12. A pilot may take off from any airfield he likes WITHIN HIS OWN COUNTRY. X X13. No one may challenge a pilot who already has a pending challenge. X X [ This means that nobody would be *required* to have more than one X fight per week, right? --Jeff] X X14. No back to back challenging of the same pilot will be allowed. If one X loses a match to the person he challenged he must first fly a challenge X against another opponent before he may re-challenge his first enemy. X X [ This is a pain, if I can only challenge within 2 rungs, then there's X only two possible people that I can fight... -Jeff] X X17. Battles should be fought at 2400 baud with 8N1 data settings. X Dogfights can also be fought at higher baud rates is agreeable X to both participants. X X18. All dogfights should be recorded with the VCR. Any disputes X (highly discouraged) will be resolved by the current administrator X X [ These are going to be HUGE! -Jeff] X XLets all have fun with this. No arguing please. If there are rules here you Xdon't like, remember we intend to be very flexible in the coming months. XWe want to make the ladder fun and as realistic as possible within the Xconstraints imposed by the software. X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Tornado: SAMs (Andrew) X XHi, X XI like to post just a few additional comments and experiences concerning Xthe SAMs. (quotes taken from Andrew's post in Issue 24) X X> However, as I get into the game I've found I'm beginning to get the knack X> of handling them. X XThis is definetely right. In my first missions I always flew on autopilot Xand just pulled the trigger for the laydown run. X X> * Keep pumping that chaff - X XHmm, that's something I would like to discuss more deeply. According to the Xmanual red "+"'s are heat-seeking missiles. So You would have to pump Xflares rather than chaffs? XThere are that "foggy" missions where all the SAMs are downed because their XIR-seeker can't lock on. So what are they: radar-guided, heat-seeking or Xboth? X(Once an AC locked on me and fired a missile ( orange "+"). Short time Xlater the AC-dot dissapears but the "+" remained. I hit ECM, pumped chaffs Xand flares and maneuvered like crazy over some hills but finally it got Xme :-( It had to be an active radar missile, right to the book) X XMy experience with attacking a SAM site is: be fast (to evade AAA) but XDONT'T USE AB! That implements that You mustn't engage autothrottle, just Xset Your engine to 100% MIL. XIf You get a SAM-site lock-on engage ECM (it seems to me that if You use XECM while attacking a site with only AAA it helps to confuse them, too). XIf a SAM is launched begin to pump chaffs AND flares (AND NO AB). XThen: X> * Maneuvre! :-) X X> * Don't be afraid to cook the flight plan a little X XDon't be afraid to cook the flight plan a lot!!! XIn one of my previous posts I wrote how I completed Mission 3, WZ1. Last Xnight I succeded completing that mission three times :) I split all egress Xwaypoints and flew back to my base in the very east of the map. One great Xthing in Tornado is that You can fly over the border of the map and don't Xcome back on the other side :-) X X> If your friends are suppressing AA using indirect ALARM fire make damn X> sure you arrive late enough for the ALARMS to get down to their targets X XBut stay in the time-plan. If Your wingies have set the speed to "bound", Xthey will fly at the same speed as You do (user the drone-view to check Xthis). The trouble then starts when the target has a fixed time. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X XP.S.: Joel, I ment all the lonely ones here,who aren't on the F3-list and X haven't got MiG 29 ;-) X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Wilson Chiu XSubject: Tornado replies, thanks... X XHi there, X XThanks very much for the replies on Tornado and the F15 III patch. X XIt would be great if Digital Intergration is bring out a patch for the XTornado. And to the person who asked whether anyone has heard from DI, Xwell, I heard from them on Saturday but it was nothing to do with XTornado what-so-ever, they sent a letter inviting me to join their XDI Select club, which I gather is a direct purchase club and you can Xdiscounts, newsletters and you even have the oppurtunity to buy a Xposter!! X XCome on now DI, all that is very well, but what about the patch?! Also, Xhow about more info on product catalogue, so that we know what we can Xbuy with our discount once we join this brilliant club!! X XThanks very much Andrew from Oxford who submitted a write-up on how to Xavoid the SAMs - good stuff. I too have discovered changing your Xflight path sometimes can make life considerably easier - but sometime Xyou think hmm, that's look OK, not running straight at AA threats, but Xyou still get jumped. I have also tried the running away and dump Xchaff method which works, but I don't really know what to do if you Xare 32 seconds from your target, and the warning system tells you the XAAA and SAM sites have found you - what should I do? If I run away, I Xmight stay alive, but I mess up the mission, so I get a big 'X' next Xto the mission list (but at least I am alive). Not doubt that's what Xreal pilots would do, scrap the misson and try to stay alive and Xhopefully go home with the jet - but I want to complete the missons! I Xbought the bloddy game and I want to be able to play it, go through Xthe missons and explore the game to the full! I am sure that's what Di Xwould want us to do too, the programmer would want the users to try Xout various aspects of the game and maybe appreciate all the hard work Xthey have put in - and not get so fed up and bored with it cause you Xkeep getting killed or messing up the missons!! X XI know if you are in a real Tornado zooming along at 200ft and if you Xare hit the odds are heavily against you - realism is one thing, Xalthough I like my flight sims to be a realistic as possible, I don't Xthink it has to so hard all the time. How about options to choose Xwhich mode to play in? I think Falcon 3 has got the balance just right X- if your pilot gets killed, you can still get along the game and have fun Xwith the missions. Ok, if you are no good, you will eventually lose Xall your planes, pilots and the campagine, but at least you get to Xplay all the missions. X XHaving said all that, Tornado is still a brilliant game, there's Xnothing like it when you have managed to blow up your targets, run Xaway like fuck with SAMs on your tail and still manage to get home. X XWils X X X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 25 ]] END-of-issue025 echo x - issue026 sed 's/^X//' >issue026 << 'END-of-issue026' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I26 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 26 X Mon Aug 9 22:25:24 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X AW FAQ ? "Pete Williams" X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: "Pete Williams" XSubject: AW FAQ ? X X X Title says it all - is there an FAQ or equivalent document for Xnewbies? This weekend I'll try GEnie for the first time - in an effort X(probably hopeless) to prevent myself making from looking like a total fool XI'd like to get as much info as possible on what to expect. X X Also, what do I do to get to the realism area? What version do I need Xand where is it located? X XThanks; X XPete Williams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: TORNADO: Ain't no sunshine & other things X XHi! X XGlad to hear DI's going to patch TORNADO so that XSAMs are less lethal. X XIf they want to patch, maybe we should make a wish list with other Xproblems? X XFor example: X-There's no sun and no moon in TORNADO ! (minor) X-hitting trains and trucks will mess up the X debriefing: these targets are repeated in the X "other TORNADO hits" window, but with negative sign! (minor) X-the logs of injured pilots disappear, but killed pilots' X logs are kept. X-I think the "performance" percentage (situation window) X is not correctly saved in campaigns. X-At maximum zoom, the TIALD sometimes looks "inside" X tall objects (like POL tanks) (minor) X-The soundblaster driver is not working with most sound cards X-No debriefing after Quickstart (pretty major) X XOther bugs known? X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X------------------------------- X XFrom: white@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Brad White) XSubject: Air Warrior X XHello, X X Ok, I have been reading a lot about this air warrior game. The main Xreason I have never joined genie and the like is because of the cost. Up Xhere in the Great White North, the node centers to link to Genie are often X'long distance' phone calls away. the long a short of it is about 14-18 Xbucks an hour connect time :((( X **HOWEVER**, the excellent proposal of an internet ladder is peaking Xmy interest !!! So, how do I get Air Warrior? Can I only download it from XGenie etc?? I once had $10 credit and joined for a couple of days, went Xinto the air warrior arena, but could never find anyone.. got pretty Xdiscouraged and never tried again. Someone not used to these systems can Xfind it hard to find their way around etc... X At the time they had mentioned SVGA Warrior. Is it out yet? Can I Xbuy the game in a software store? Is it shareware somewhere? (yeah right :) X). X X Any advice, opinions, help etc. would be very appreciated. XRegards, XBrad X- -- X __________________________________________________________ X | Brad White | | X | white@watsci.uwaterloo.edu | | X ---------------------------------------------------------- X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: Re: Tornado replies .. (Wilson Chiu) X XHi! X X> I have also tried the running away and dump X>chaff method which works, but I don't really know what to do if you X>are 32 seconds from your target, and the warning system tells you the X>AAA and SAM sites have found you - what should I do? If I run away, I X>might stay alive, but I mess up the mission, so I get a big 'X' next X>to the mission list (but at least I am alive). X XMy 2 cents: X XAttack (try to point the Tornado's nose at the SAM(s), ALARM(s) Xin direct mode), then turn Xand run (you will probalby have to evade some IR missiles by now). XSomeone has suggested hiding behind hills to break the lock, and Xit works very well. X XAfter this is done (should not be that difficult because you were in Xthe outer area of the SAMs range when you attacked the SAM), Xreturn to your target and see if you have hit something, and repeat Xthis procedure until you have killed all the SAMs, they have killed Xyou, you are engaged by an enemy a/c or you are out of ALARMS. XI frequently leave Sidewinders at home and if you disable Xautothrottle (which uses afterbiurner frequently), you can also Xleave drop tanks at home almost always. So you can carry at least X6 ALARMs if you feel the SAM and AA threat is overwhelming. X X X XBTW.: Have you tried to select filling stations as targets of Xopportunity and then shoot them up with your Mauser? It works! X XJoerg Stenger wrote: X>But stay in the time-plan. If Your wingies have set the speed to "bound", X>they will fly at the same speed as You do (user the drone-view to check X>this). The trouble then starts when the target has a fixed time. X XI disaggree. Whether the speed is set to bound or fixed is the same Xonce you leave the mission planer. The wingies will fly at whatever Xspeed is required to get to the next way-point in time, if possible. X XI wonder how you can check a wingie's speed. I thought that the Xbottom line of the drone view is *your* TORNADO's data, not that of the Xdrone displayed (unlike falcon's wingperson view). X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Invitation to join SVGA Air Warrior Ladder X X> X> The following rules shall be subject to change, based on member input, on a X> monthly basis, until they become more solid, and then subject to revision on X> a more limited basis as determined by the rules committee. X> X> [ Who is "The Rules Committee"? --Jeff ] X XI think the rules committee is initially just Bob, but may include me Xas well as I've been helping with the rules as best I can. I don't Xthink there is an official committee yet. Then again, maybe everyone's Xon the committee :-). X X> 3. Every month the ladder shall change theaters. The first ladder shall X> be in Europe. Planes available in a particular theater will be based on X> the aircraft historically present in a given theater as follows: X> X> Europe South Pacific X> P-38 P-38 X> Spitfire F4U Corsair X> Mustang Mustang X> FW190 KI-84 Frank X> BF109 A6M5 Zero X> Hellcat Hellcat X> Thunderbolt X> Yak-9 X> X> [ I'd suggest that you use the same names as AW does. Eg: P51. X> Where's the Hellcat, Thunderbolt? -Jeff ] X XThe Hellcat and Thunderbolt are included in the beta versions (currently Xat 1.11). X X> 5. A challenge is constituted by a message sent to the Air Warrior mailing X> list (currently just send email to rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu). The person X> being challenged shall have one week from the date of the challenge to X> respond. Failure to respond within one week will result in the challenger X> winning just as if he shot his enemy down in combat. Once a challenge has X> been accepted it is the challenger's responsibility to negotiate with X> his enemy the date and time combat is to take place. Combat must take X> place within one week after a challenge has been accepted. X> X> [ What if someone goes on vacation? --Jeff ] X> [ Would you like me to run this mailing list on onion.rain.com, as X> a non-digestified list? --Jeff] X XI thought the vacation stuff was in the last version I saw. Basically, Xyou are supposed to notify the ladder administrator (and your Xchallenger if there's one pending) that you'll be gone. In this case, Xthe challenge may be suspended (or voided if the challenger wishes?). X XAs for the non-digestified list, I've offered the same on cactus.org. XMy thoughts were that it makes more sense to be public about it (i.e. Xuse an existing mailing list or newsgroup if possible) to attract Xothers and to show how much fun it is. If the noise gets too high or Xthe rest of the list wishes it moved elsewhere, then move it off. In Xthe meantime, it might be fun to hear the virtual glove in the face Xand war stories from us arm chair aviators. X X> 6. The winner will be determined by the winner of two out of three X> dogfights. The winner in any one dog fight shall be the pilot still X> aloft when the fight ends. I.E. if one is shot down, bails out, spins and X> crashes, or his plane explodes from gunfire he has lost that individual X> fight. In addition, if the connection is terminated while a fight is X> in progress then the fight will be replayed. X> X> [This is asking for trouble. I'm low on gas & ammo, and disengaging. X> I see someone on my 6, closing for the kill, so I reach for the modem X> and turn it off. ACK! I was dumped. NOT! It might not be fair, X> but I think that there's no other way. (as does Kesmai). --Jeff ] X XThis was also brought up in earlier rules discussions. There's no Xknown solution to this. My thoughts are that you can challenge around Xsuspected misusers. In that case, the offending pilot eventually moves Xdown the ladder because he's not likely to do much better than a draw Xand challenging around him will force him down the ladder. We can keep Xtrack of lost connections / person in the stats as well as a Xdisincentive. X X> 7. Should a pilot expend all his ammo, or if he judges himself to be low on X> fuel, or for whatever reason believes he must disengage, he may land AT X> AN AIRFIELD ONLY IN HIS OWN COUNTRY. If he lands (without crashing) on a X> paved strip and achieves zero knots speed without being destroyed by his X> enemy then that single fight is a draw. If a pilot is in a landing X> pattern, or on the ground but moving, and his plane is destroyed by the X> gunfire of his opponent, then he loses that single fight. Draws X> will be replayed. X> X> [ This means one of the labeled airfields, and not a neutral field? -Jeff] X XI expect so. This also brings up another point. That is, what terrain Xshould be used. The beta code comes with terrain for the scenarios. XThere's a seperate file for page 869 terrain. X X> 8. Once both planes are in the air combat commences. The only X> requirement is that pilots fly toward each other initially until X> visual icon distance is acquired. This is the only merge requirement. X> X> [ Do you have to return to base between fights? If not, then the X> the winner of the 1st battle has a VERY clear advantage... --Jeff] X XI think if we turn off the Continuous option, the fight will end for Xboth at this point, but I'm not sure. Of course, this might make it Xharder to determine the winner. Each round starts with both planes Xtaking off from a base, so there won't be a fuel and ammo disadvantage Xfor the victor although that could make for interesting fights. There Xis no requirement for the victor to make it back to base to keep the Xvictory. X X> 9. There shall be no limit on aircraft except those already noted. X> X> [ Is there no advance notification needed? (Do I have to tell my X> opponent what plane I'll be in?) --Jeff ] X XIt's all part of the negogiation phase. Each player picks his plane and Xbase. Although nothing is stated in the rules about this, I think it's Ximplied that you may only change your own field and aircraft during the Xnegotiation and not your opponent's. I don't know what to do about Xuncooperative opponents. X X> 13. No one may challenge a pilot who already has a pending challenge. X> X> [ This means that nobody would be *required* to have more than one X> fight per week, right? --Jeff] X XCorrect. If you are quick about answering challenges, negotiating the time, Xand performing the challenge, you could have several a week. On the other Xhand, if you don't challenge anyone and noone challenges you, you may not Xfight at all in any given week. X X> 14. No back to back challenging of the same pilot will be allowed. If one X> loses a match to the person he challenged he must first fly a challenge X> against another opponent before he may re-challenge his first enemy. X> X> [ This is a pain, if I can only challenge within 2 rungs, then there's X> only two possible people that I can fight... -Jeff] X XThere's only two opponents that you can issue a challenge to, but the Xtwo below you can challenge you as well. This keeps people at the top Xfrom being inundated with challenges from people who have very little Xchance of advancing to that position. Fights will be more evenly Xmatched with people of similar skill levels. X X> 18. All dogfights should be recorded with the VCR. Any disputes X> (highly discouraged) will be resolved by the current administrator X> X> [ These are going to be HUGE! -Jeff] X XI've seen some that are large, but they typically run 70-80k. I don't Xthink we plan to keep every one of these. They will be used to resolve Xdisputes and verify claims. I don't think the ladder admin wants Xcopies for every challenge either, only when there's a dispute will Xthey be needed. For the most part, the two combatants should announce Xthey're own victory/defeat and only if there's a conflict at that point Xthe cam files come into play. X XOf course, if the victor wants to show off their prowess and post his/her Xcam files, then there's nothing wrong with that. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Air Warrior X X> **HOWEVER**, the excellent proposal of an internet ladder is peaking X> my interest !!! So, how do I get Air Warrior? Can I only download it from X> Genie etc?? X XI don't know if the original Air Warrior is still available from GEnie Xor whether it has the h2h capabilities of SVGA AW. I think SVGA AW may Xbe required for the ladder. There's probably too many Xincompatibilities otherwise. X X> At the time they had mentioned SVGA Warrior. Is it out yet? Can I X> buy the game in a software store? Is it shareware somewhere? (yeah right :) X> ). X XIt's available mail order or in software houses and typically includes Xa $50 credit on GEnie. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu (useradd) XSubject: Re: Invitation to join SVGA Air Warrior Ladder X X X> RULES FOR INTERNET SVGA AIR WARRIOR LADDER X X>The following rules shall be subject to change, based on member input, on a X>monthly basis, until they become more solid, and then subject to revision on X>a more limited basis as determined by the rules committee. X X[ Who is "The Rules Committee"? --Jeff ] X XCurrently, the "Rules Committee" is just me. First, we need Xto see how many people will participate. If there are only X7 or 8 people initially then rules can be decided democratically. XIf the list grows much larger, then perhaps a rules committee Xof 3 or 4 people would be better. X X>3. Every month the ladder shall change theaters. The first ladder shall X> be in Europe. Planes available in a particular theater will be based on X> the aircraft historically present in a given theater as follows: X X> Europe South Pacific X> P-38 P-38 X> Spitfire F4U Corsair X> Mustang Mustang X> FW190 KI-84 Frank X> BF109 A6M5 Zero X> Hellcat Hellcat X> Thunderbolt X> Yak-9 X X X X [ I'd suggest that you use the same names as AW does. Eg: P51. X Where's the Hellcat, Thunderbolt? -Jeff ] X XOkay, I'll change the names. The Hellcat and the Thurderbolt are additions to Xthe recent beta releases. The latest release, I heard, will soon become Xofficial. X XOne thing that I do not like about the European theater is that Xeveryone will probably fly Spitfires. The Spitfire is clearly Xthe best dogfighter in the game. Without the Spitfire there Xwould probably be a lot of diversity in people's choices of planes. XI'd personally would like to ban the Spitfire, but this would Xbe unreasonable for most people. X X>5. A challenge is constituted by a message sent to the Air Warrior mailing X> list (currently just send email to rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu). The person X> being challenged shall have one week from the date of the challenge to X> respond. Failure to respond within one week will result in the challenger X> winning just as if he shot his enemy down in combat. Once a challenge has X> been accepted it is the challenger's responsibility to negotiate with X> his enemy the date and time combat is to take place. Combat must take X> place within one week after a challenge has been accepted. X X [ What if someone goes on vacation? --Jeff ] X [ Would you like me to run this mailing list on onion.rain.com, as X a non-digestified list? --Jeff] X XI would assume that you would not be except from ladder challenges if Xyou went on vacation. I don't think this would be fair to the other Xplayers. The most you would loose would be 1 position per week. X XI think that an AW mailing list would be appropriate. It remains Xto be seen however if there is enough interest in AW Xto justify a mail list. A non-digestified list is best. XIf there was an AW list, it would also detract from the hi-tech mail Xlist unless the AW mail list was only for ladder players. X X>6. The winner will be determined by the winner of two out of three X> dogfights. The winner in any one dog fight shall be the pilot still X> aloft when the fight ends. I.E. if one is shot down, bails out, spins and X> crashes, or his plane explodes from gunfire he has lost that individual X> fight. In addition, if the connection is terminated while a fight is X> in progress then the fight will be replayed. X X [This is asking for trouble. I'm low on gas & ammo, and disengaging. X I see someone on my 6, closing for the kill, so I reach for the modem X and turn it off. ACK! I was dumped. NOT! It might not be fair, X but I think that there's no other way. (as does Kesmai). --Jeff ] X XHopefully, everyone will have the honor to be honest. I don't Xsee anyway around broken connections either. Another concern Xthat I have is that there will be prolonged fights. For example, Xsomeone takes a P51 with maximum full capacity and avoids contact Xat all costs until he knows the opponent is out of fuel. Then he Xmakes his attack. This would make the ladder unplayable. XHowever, I know of no rules that could prevent this. X X>7. Should a pilot expend all his ammo, or if he judges himself to be low on X> fuel, or for whatever reason believes he must disengage, he may land AT X> AN AIRFIELD ONLY IN HIS OWN COUNTRY. If he lands (without crashing) on a X> paved strip and achieves zero knots speed without being destroyed by his X> enemy then that single fight is a draw. If a pilot is in a landing X> pattern, or on the ground but moving, and his plane is destroyed by the X> gunfire of his opponent, then he loses that single fight. Draws X> will be replayed. X X [ This means one of the labeled airfields, and not a neutral field? -Jeff] X XYes. I really like this rule a lot, but it will cause disputes. X X>8. Once both planes are in the air combat commences. The only X> requirement is that pilots fly toward each other initially until X> visual icon distance is acquired. This is the only merge requirement. X X [ Do you have to return to base between fights? If not, then the X the winner of the 1st battle has a VERY clear advantage... --Jeff] X XYes. A duel always begins with both planes taking off from an Xairfield. After a victory has been achieved, the players Xshould return to the main menu and renegotiate if necessary. X X9. There shall be no limit on aircraft except those already noted. X X [ Is there no advance notification needed? (Do I have to tell my X opponent what plane I'll be in?) --Jeff ] X XNo advanced notification will be needed. Unpredictabilty should Xmake the ladder more enjoyable. X X>13. No one may challenge a pilot who already has a pending challenge. X X> [ This means that nobody would be *required* to have more than one X> fight per week, right? --Jeff] X XCorrect. You would not be required to issue challenges each week. X X>14. No back to back challenging of the same pilot will be allowed. If one X> loses a match to the person he challenged he must first fly a challenge X> against another opponent before he may re-challenge his first enemy. X X [ This is a pain, if I can only challenge within 2 rungs, then there's X only two possible people that I can fight... -Jeff] X XBeing able to challenge 3 rungs above yourself would be too much Xif the ladder was small. I do not know if this rule is unreasonable Xor not. X X X>18. All dogfights should be recorded with the VCR. Any disputes X> (highly discouraged) will be resolved by the current administrator X X [ These are going to be HUGE! -Jeff] X XI should be more clear on this. CAMs are needed so that disputes Xcan be resolved. I should add a rule that disputes must be Xissued within 3 days after a duel. That way, Cams would only Xneed to be saved for about a week max. X X-bob crane rcrane@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Invitation to join SVGA Air Warrior Ladder X X> [This is asking for trouble. I'm low on gas & ammo, and disengaging. X> I see someone on my 6, closing for the kill, so I reach for the modem X> and turn it off. ACK! I was dumped. NOT! It might not be fair, X> but I think that there's no other way. (as does Kesmai). --Jeff ] X> X> Hopefully, everyone will have the honor to be honest. I don't X> see anyway around broken connections either. Another concern X> that I have is that there will be prolonged fights. For example, X> someone takes a P51 with maximum full capacity and avoids contact X> at all costs until he knows the opponent is out of fuel. Then he X> makes his attack. This would make the ladder unplayable. X> However, I know of no rules that could prevent this. X XI see this as a valid tactic that must be recognized by the opponent. XThe counter is to 1) feint lack of fuel and wait for him to come down, Xor 2) make a beeline to your airfield and land forcing a draw. A player Xwho won't fight won't be able to advance. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Beadles XSubject: Re: Air Warrior X X X X>> **HOWEVER**, the excellent proposal of an internet ladder is peaking X>> my interest !!! So, how do I get Air Warrior? Can I only download it from X>> Genie etc?? X> X>I don't know if the original Air Warrior is still available from GEnie X>or whether it has the h2h capabilities of SVGA AW. I think SVGA AW may X>be required for the ladder. There's probably too many X>incompatibilities otherwise. X XThe version of AW that was available on GEnie did not support H2H. X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 26 ]] END-of-issue026 echo x - issue027 sed 's/^X//' >issue027 << 'END-of-issue027' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I27 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 27 X Tue Aug 10 22:04:01 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X More Tornado thoughts... Wilson Chiu XSubject: More Tornado thoughts... X XHi there, X XIt's good to hear how other people are getting on with Tornado, there Xhas been some useful hints on avoiding SAMs. X XHas anyone tried this? If you have SAMs chasing you and since they are Xheat seekers you can't tell how far you are - I have tried this a Xcouple of times, switch to speactor view (F3) briefly, if the SAMs are Xclose, you can see it chasing you as your jet zooms past - dump Xchaff/flares like mad!!! And you are running away fast enough or Xhowever you managed to break lock, you can see the SAM crashing into Xthe ground. You have to hit the F3 and HOME keys to switch between the Xmodes. Comments? X X XI am still having to play useing the keyboard - can't get the Warrior X5 to work (SoundBalster Pro port) properly with Tornado. X XWils X X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: More Tornado thoughts... (Wils) X XWilson S.C. Chiu wrote: X X> Has anyone tried this? If you have SAMs chasing you and since they are X> heat seekers you can't tell how far you are - I have tried this a X> couple of times, switch to speactor view (F3) briefly, if the SAMs are X> close, you can see it chasing you as your jet zooms past - dump X> chaff/flares like mad!!! And you are running away fast enough or X> however you managed to break lock, you can see the SAM crashing into X> the ground. You have to hit the F3 and HOME keys to switch between the X> modes. Comments? X XYou have to be pretty good for that or else You will crash into the ground ;-) XI don't think I'll use it because for me it's a little bit like cheating but Xthat's just my personal opinion :) X XI would like to have the TWI designed more like in F3; You would know that Xa threat is pretty close when it enters the inner circle. XBTW, has anyone seen pictures of a "real" Tornado cocpit? How is the TWI Xdesigned there? Are the instruments modelled correctly (of course to a Xcertain degree, but e.g. are they put at the right places)? X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Mark Kuebeler XSubject: Re: AW FAQ ? X X> Title says it all - is there an FAQ or equivalent document for X>newbies? This weekend I'll try GEnie for the first time - in an effort X>(probably hopeless) to prevent myself making from looking like a total fool X>I'd like to get as much info as possible on what to expect. X XThere is no FAQ, but there is supposed to be a closed topic in the AW Xbulletin board on GEnie to serve this purpose. I'm not sure what all is Xin there. X XI would strongly encourage you to start out in AW by attending one of Xthe weekly training sessions on page 868. There are trainers on hand Xto answer any questions you have about the game, and you can fly and Xfight in an arena where you won't actually get shot down. It's a good Xway to get a feel for what to expect in the actual arena. There's a XTuesday night training session starting at 9pm EDT. There is also Xsupposed to be a Sunday afternoon training session, but I'm not sure Xwhat time it starts. X XYou may also want to consider enrolling in the Air Warrior Training XAcademy (AWTA). This is a 7 week structured training package that Xincludes manuals and free online time in the AWTA training arena, all Xat a reasonable price. AWTA will teach you the basic skills that you Xwould otherwise have to learn on your own. X X> X> Also, what do I do to get to the realism area? What version do I need X>and where is it located? X XDepending on which version you got when you bought the front-end, you may Xneed to download a free update to version 1.06 (if you have v 1.07 you're XOK). This will get you into the training page (p868) and the regular Xcombat arena (p870). On p870 there are four theaters to choose from: XPacific, Europe, WW1, and realism. All four theaters are in 1/2 realtime. XTwo new conference room commands (not listed in the SVGA manual) are X X /arena - list all arenas and their occupancy X /move - move to a particular arena X XA realtime arena is currently being tested and will be installed on 870 Xin the near future. This will require another update which will be made Xavailable as a free download. In the meantime the realtime update is a Xbeta version and downloading it is billed at the $3/hr rate. In order to Xdownload the updates you must first send your $50 GEnie credit coupon in Xto Kesmai. X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Duvall XSubject: re: Tornado and sams... X XThe SAMs in Tornado are IR guided. The best way to avoid them is to have Xan Alarm armed before you enter the target area, and fire it as soon as Xyour RWR lights up. After that you need to start jinking and dumping Xflares every time your heading changes. X XThis worked for me all weekend, except when I ran out of flares. :) X X--------------------------------------------------------------------------- X | XJeff DuVall | XUniversity of Washington, Seattle, Washington (O) XInternet: mirage@u.washington.edu X--------<_._>--------X XPhone: (206) 528-4660 @@ (___) @@ X F-16 Fighting Falcon X--------------------------------------------------------------------------- X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Duvall XSubject: Tornado bugs (minor)... X X XI onl found one that hacked me off. It seems as though the sams will only Xtarget you. I was flying a mission in WZ1 against the nuke plant. That's Xthe one with either 4 or 6 Tornado in mission. I was about 10 seconds late Xarriving to the target, and could plainly see my wingmen egressing. The Xthing is, no missles were fired at them, but when I came tooling in, bang, Xthe RWR lights up and a missle is fired at me. I hope they fix this in Xthe patch. Could someone either forward this to DI or give me their mail Xaddress? On another note, I would also like to see a zoom/unzoom feature Xin the mission planner. X XAs a side note, I decided that after landing I wanted to see where my Xhangar was. So, I landed, and pulled on to an unused runway. I then Xwatched my wingmen land, roll to the end of the runway, and then taxi Xback. As I was sitting there, they passed in front of me, and I tucked in Xbehind. As it turns out, they end up parking on the edge of the tarmac, Xnear the tower. There's also a C-130 parked there as well. I thought it Xwas pretty cool. Good job DI! X X--------------------------------------------------------------------------- X | XJeff DuVall | XUniversity of Washington, Seattle, Washington (O) XInternet: mirage@u.washington.edu X--------<_._>--------X XPhone: (206) 528-4660 @@ (___) @@ X F-16 Fighting Falcon X--------------------------------------------------------------------------- X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Duvall XSubject: Tornado.. X XWINGS, on the Discovery Channel, will be looking at the Tornado this XWednesday. Just thought you might like to know. X X--------------------------------------------------------------------------- X | XJeff DuVall | XUniversity of Washington, Seattle, Washington (O) XInternet: mirage@u.washington.edu X--------<_._>--------X XPhone: (206) 528-4660 @@ (___) @@ X F-16 Fighting Falcon X--------------------------------------------------------------------------- X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Mark Kuebeler XSubject: Air Warrior FAQ - I'll give it a shot. X XI've got a few weeks before classes start up, and after the Kursk Xscenario ends on Sunday I'll be letting my Visa card cool off for a Xwhile, so I'll take a crack at putting together a preliminary FAQ for XAir Warrior. I've been in the game for almost two years, so I can Xpretty much answer most FAQ's. I just need to figure out what they Xare! Feel free to mail me any questions you think should be included. X XBTW, I don't think the FAQ should include discussions of tactics since Xthere are many styles of fighting in AW and opinions vary as to what Xworks and what doesn't. The SVGA manual describes some of the basics Xanyway, and there's always Shaw's book. :) X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 27 ]] END-of-issue027 echo x - issue028 sed 's/^X//' >issue028 << 'END-of-issue028' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I28 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 28 X Wed Aug 11 21:26:43 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado bugs (minor)... Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Tornado Cockpit Authenticity Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X SVGA Air Warrior questions chrstie@CC.UManitoba.CA X What do You get for registering??? stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Re: Tornado bugs (minor) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Re: Tornado replies .. (Issue 26) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Sorry about that... I try again... Jeff Duvall I onl found one that hacked me off. It seems as though the sams will only Xtarget you. I was flying a mission in WZ1 against the nuke plant. That's Xthe one with either 4 or 6 Tornado in mission. I was about 10 seconds late Xarriving to the target, and could plainly see my wingmen egressing. The Xthing is, no missles were fired at them, but when I came tooling in, bang, Xthe RWR lights up and a missle is fired at me. X XI'm not sure the wingies *never* get targeted - I've noticed some of them Xdon't always make it. However, it definately doesn't help being Xlate there does seem some kind of ``defences wake-up time'' simulated - Xunless you're wingies have launched ALARM's in which case you want to Xbe late enough for them to hit their targets. X XMy personal conjecture is that the game engine is a bit nicer to the Xwingies as there doesn't seem to be any simulated evasive maneuvering or Xdirect use of ALARM by them. X X> Could someone either forward this to DI or give me their mail Xaddress? On another note, I would also like to see a zoom/unzoom feature Xin the mission planner. X XI wouldn't email them about this one. There IS already a very nice Xzoom /unzoom feature. It just works rather differently from the Xone in Falcon (click on the *right* mouse button and you get a nice Xpop-up zoom menu - the zoom I think centres on where you clicked). X XTheir email address is: X Xdigint@uk.co.compulink.cix X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) XSubject: Tornado Cockpit Authenticity X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger writes: X X: BTW, has anyone seen pictures of a "real" Tornado cocpit? How is the TWI X: designed there? Are the instruments modelled correctly (of course to a X: certain degree, but e.g. are they put at the right places)? X XAccording to the layout chart in _The Great Warplanes of the 1990s_, by Bill XYenne, the Tornado program models the real Tornado cockpit quite closely. XAlmost all the gauges and warning lights in the program's cockpit are where Xthey are in the real cockpit, with one exception: the TWI. On the chart in Xthe book, that area is listed as "blank." X XHmm. Secret, maybe? X-- X X Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh? X Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117 X XLigneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous Xstructure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: chrstie@CC.UManitoba.CA XSubject: SVGA Air Warrior questions X XI'm having a problem with SVGA Air Warrior and using my modem. The manual Xsuggests sending E-mail to AIR.WOLF on GEnie but I'd much rather use my Xmail editor here to query them not only because it appears easier but Xcheaper too. I heard there is Internet access to GEnie so does anyone Xknow what sort of address that would be? X XOn a related topic I have questions regarding the maximum sustained turn Xrate. What velocity is this done at? The manual also states that the Yak Xonly has a turn rate of ~20 degrees/sec but the graph at the back puts it Xat <40 (significantly better than even the Spitfire!). Which one is Xright? Can one determine the minimum turn radius from this and/or a Xcombination of the other data? X XFinally, does anyone know the damage capabilities of each aircraft X(something that could be related to the lethality rating)? Thanks! X- -- XTo be or not to To be or not to be. __ | Will Christie Xbe, that is the *puff* 2B + 2B | University of Xquestion. Not to be. *KABOOM* =01 | Manitoba X-Hamlet, Shakespeare -Hamlet, Schwarzenegger -Hamlet, Hex |Winnipeg, Canada X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: What do You get for registering??? X XHi all, X XYesterday I got a letter from DI. They inveted my to join a special "club", Xwhere You can buy T-shirts, promotion-videos and other "very useful" stuff. XThe best thing: it would "only" cost 5 pounds for a year (overseas 10 pounds Xas far as I remember) ... X XTornado is the first game where I made a registration because I thought XI would receive patches and infos about the game or add-ons. In fact, what Xseems to have happend is exactely why I haven't registered for other games: XYou are on their address-list and get useless advertisments. X XMy question to You is now: what did You get for Your registration for other Xgames like Falcon? XI don't know if all members of the list are interested in this stuff, so please Xsend me an e-mail. If there is a common interest I will post a summary later. X XJoerg "I really hate advertising" Stenger X------------------------------------------------------- XE-Mail: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de [134.91.4.79] X or X hj902st@unidui.uni-duisburg.de [134.91.4.3] X------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Tornado bugs (minor) X XAndrew Stevens wrote in reply to Jeff DuVall: X X>I'm not sure the wingies *never* get targeted - I've noticed some of them X>don't always make it. X XOn an egress from a low-level bomg mission I once saw a wingie explode for Xno special reason. It was such a 6 planes simultanious strike so maybe he Xwasn't in time and got damaged by some bomb-explosions and managed to egress Xhalf the way home but then... X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Tornado replies .. (Issue 26) X XHeinz-Bernd wrote to my comments on time-planning: X X>I wonder how you can check a wingie's speed. I thought that the X>bottom line of the drone view is *your* TORNADO's data, not that of the X>drone displayed (unlike falcon's wingperson view). X XYou are right! It seems that I've played (flown;-) F3 too long. XAshes and little stones on my head. X XOn the other hand, being in time when You reach Your target should Xconfuse those AA guys if Your wingies ingress from different directions Xat the same time You do. XI wrote "should" because I haven't ever seen that a SAM was fired on a Xwingie. X XBTW, I really miss some speech in the sim. On the F3-list we want more Xdetailed AWACS information and other things (the more You get, the more XYou want ;-) X XIn Tornado I would be happy if I would hear something like "Alarm!", X"Bombs away!" or the old "Singer high!". A special could be "Point C Xpassed, all birds in time". XA few basic commands like "ToT +/- x sec" would be great. XMaybe if DI knows how to handle a Sound Blaster they will release as Xthe next add-on, apart from that patch (and a T-shirt ;-), a Speech- Xpack. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Duvall XSubject: Sorry about that... I try again... X XFYI X Here is a program guide for some of the Military Aviation shows Xthat are on some of the pay channel. If anyone has access to an A&E or XDISCOVERY channel posting that has additional program information perhaps Xthey can add into this post for the coming weeks. X*(See particularly the starred selex.) X XBut First, kicking off an interesting show, on NOVA tonight: X X FASTEST PLANES IN THE WORLD (repeat from 1991), * X (from Kitty Hawk to the Concorde) X X-------------------------------------------------------------------- X 8/07 - 8/13 X XFeature Topic PLAYDATE X X+++DISCOVERY CHANNEL: X XWINGS The Tornado WED 8/11 XSECRET WEAPONS Sophisticated Guidance systems FRI * XFIREPOWER =unknown topic= FRI XGREAT FIGHTING MACHINES Axis Tanks FRI X X+++A&E: X XAIR COMBAT The US Soviet Tech war WED * XFIRST FLIGHTS DC-3 Mass Transit WED 8/11 WED XBRUTE FORCE The Evolutions of "Smart" bombs THU * XTIME MACHINE Sinking of the Indianapolis FRI X X-------------------------------------------------------------------- X 8/14 - 8/20 X XFeature Topic PLAYDATE X X+++DISCOVERY CHANNEL: X XWings of the LUFTWAFFE The ME-110 as a nightfighter SAT 8/14 XWINGS =unknown topic= SUN 8/15 XFAST JETS Aerial Recon SUN 8/15 * XNUCLEAR SUBMARINES History of Submarine Technology SUN 8/15 XHISTORY OF NASA First 25 years SUN 8/15 XWINGS GRUMMAN E-2C Hawkweye WED 8/18 XSECRET WEAPONS Firebombing raids during WWII FRI 8/20 XFIREPOWER =unknown topic= FRI 8/20 XGREAT FIGHTING MACHINES Allied Tanks FRI 8/20 X XA&E: X XFIRST FLIGHTS New aircraft:Biplanes to WWII WED 8/18 XBRUTE FORCE Submarines THU 8/19 X X-------------------------------------------------------------------- X 8/21 - 8/27 X XFeature Topic PLAYDATE X X+++DISCOVERY CHANNEL: X X XWings of the LUFTWAFFE SAT XWINGS SUN XFAST JETS SUN XHISTORY OF NASA SUN XWINGS WED XSECRET WEAPONS FRI XFIREPOWER FRI XGREAT FIGHTING MACHINES FRI X X+++A&E: X XFIRST FLIGHTS WED XBRUTE FORCE THU X--- X ~ TLX v2.20 ~ Please change the channel... X___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 X X X------------------------------------------------ X XI hope you all find this useful. X X X___________________________________________________________________________ XJeff DuVall | XUniversity of Washington, Seattle, Washington | XInternet: mirage@u.washington.edu (O) XPhone: (206) 528-4660 X--------<_._>--------X X @@ (___) @@ X F-16 Fighting Falcon X___________________________________________________________________________ X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 28 ]] END-of-issue028 echo x - issue029 sed 's/^X//' >issue029 << 'END-of-issue029' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I29 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 29 X Fri Aug 13 07:03:59 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado.trains jay.lee@msbbs.mn.org (Jay Lee) X Tornado: Patch release Date (DI) stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Re: Tornado: Patch release Date (DI Jeff Beadles X Re: SVGA Air Warrior questions att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net X Re: tornado bugs.. Jeff Duvall From digint@cix.compulink.co.uk Thu Aug 12 10:53:00 1993 XReturn-Path: XDate: Thu, 12 Aug 93 09:37 GMT0BST-1 XFrom: Digital Integration Limited XSubject: Re: My registration / Patches? XTo: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de XCc: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk XReply-To: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk XContent-Length: 187 X X XHello Joerg, X XWe will be releasing a revision disk sometime this week. It will be available Xdirectly from us or from CIX and possibly some PD libraries. X XKevin X X>>>MATRIX version 1.23a X X X----- End Included Message ----- X XIn my limeted mind I have no idea, what CIX is, but what about putting that Xdisk to onion.rain.com? Jeff? X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Beadles XSubject: Re: Tornado: Patch release Date (DI) X X X X>I wrote to DI and asked when they will release the patch for tornado X>and where it will be available. X> X>In my limeted mind I have no idea, what CIX is, but what about putting that X>disk to onion.rain.com? Jeff? X XYES! Either upload it to /pub/hitech-sim/incoming, or uuencode and mail Xit to me at jeff@onion.rain.com, and I'll make sure that it's made available Xfor all. X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Re: SVGA Air Warrior questions X Xchrstie@CC.UManitoba.CA writes: X>I'm having a problem with SVGA Air Warrior and using my modem. The manual X>suggests sending E-mail to AIR.WOLF on GEnie X XUse air.wolf@genie.geis.com. X X>On a related topic I have questions regarding the maximum sustained turn X>rate. What velocity is this done at? X XGood question. I think you'll have to determine this by trial and error. XCorner velocity only gives you maximum instantaneous turn rate. X X>The manual also states that the Yak X>only has a turn rate of ~20 degrees/sec but the graph at the back puts it X>at <40 (significantly better than even the Spitfire!). X XThe graph is wrong. The Yak's curve got switched with another plane's, Xpossibly the Spitfire's. X X>Finally, does anyone know the damage capabilities of each aircraft X>(something that could be related to the lethality rating)? X XYou can get a good feel for it by reading the aircraft descriptions, but Xsince you asked, here's the latest information I have on durability. The Xlist is in descending order, and does not include the new planes. X X F4U-1D Corsair X P-38J Lightning X FW190-A8 X P-51D Mustang X Ki-84 Hayate "Frank" X Spitfire Mk. IX X Bf109-F4 "Franz" X Yak-9D X A6M5 Zero-sen "Zeke" X Me262 Sturmvogel X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Duvall XSubject: Re: tornado bugs.. X XThanks. I have never seen anything in the docs that says whether or not Xthat it could do that. The only way I ever got it to work was by exploring Xmy target after i had failed the mission. X X___________________________________________________________________________ XJeff DuVall | XUniversity of Washington, Seattle, Washington | XInternet: mirage@u.washington.edu (O) XPhone: (206) 528-4660 X--------<_._>--------X X @@ (___) @@ X F-16 Fighting Falcon X___________________________________________________________________________ X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: G Effects X XThe following is courtesy of J. Shafer, from GEnie. Hope you find it Xinteresting. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X-- X XTwas perusing my flight instructor documents and came across a FAA publication Xcalled X XG EFFECTS ON THE PILOT DURING AEROBATICS Xpublished July 1972 X XFAA-AM-72-28 X XTalks about physiology, history of maneuvers, length of aerobatic routines, Xetc. X XA chart at the end was interesting. Labeled ACCELERATION TOLERANCES for Xexperienced individuals. X X X G time symptom X X +8 15 seconds blackout X 7 15 X 6 20 X 5 30 X 4 1 minute X 3 3 X 2 13 X 1 20 hours (sitting) 2 hours (standing without moving) X 0 21 days (max to date 1972 ) X X -1 10 minutes discomfort X -2 1 X -3 30 seconds pain X -4 6 unconscious X -5 4 X XStudies quoted in centrifuge tests by the US Navy using greyout of peripheral Xvision as an endpoint for positive Gs and throbbing headache for negative X X X +3.4 and -2.5 Gs 30 seconds X +3.6 and -3.2 15 seconds X +4.2 and -3.3 10 seconds X +12.0 and -4.0 3 seconds X Xthe high G force for 3 seconds is due to the oxygen dissolved in the brain. X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 29 ]] END-of-issue029 echo x - issue030 sed 's/^X//' >issue030 << 'END-of-issue030' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I30 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 30 X Mon Aug 16 17:47:15 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Flight of the Intruder Dave 'Philios' Prentice XSubject: Flight of the Intruder X X[ It would sure be nice if you would edit the bounce headers out of the X messages yourself and include a subject, so I don't have to. --Jeff] X XAlright! I was beginning to think that I was the last person around who Xstill thinks that FOTI is fun to fly. I happen to enjoy dinking around Xwith this flight sim from time to time. The Intruder is quite a bit more Xfun to push mud around with than even a Falcon. Works absolutely great on Xthe slower machines as well. X XIts too bad that no other flight sim since it has included the *neat* feature Xof jumping to different planes in your flight. Once you finish your run with Xone plane, you can just swap into your wingie and roll in hot with that plane. XIf the bandits start messing with you, you can leave the air combat to the Xdecent AI or you can take matters into your own hands and go for a kill. In XFOTI I have found that computer pilots will hardly even fire a Sparrow, even Xwhen the rules of engagement have been fulfilled. If I really need somebody Xplastered I have to do it myself or pray for a lucky sidewinder shot. X XDavid "What Rules of Engagement?" Prentice X X------------------------------- X XFrom: HERJ@CERNVM.cern.ch XSubject: Tornado chaffs X XHello, X XLast week I bought a book written by the first tornado crew who were shot down Xin the Gulf War. They were shot down after a failed loft attack on an airfield X(they do not know for sure why the attack failed, but they do not discard Xforgetting to set the weapons computer mode to loft attack!), but apart from Xpaying close attention to the weapons delivery mode setting, what gave Xme an idea to improve my performance at Tornado was the sentence where they Xsay that, when approaching the target (and before any missile were fired at Xthem), they started pumping chaff to avoid being targeted by the SAMs and AAAs. X X XWell, I have tried this and I must admit that it does not help a bit. I get Xexactly the same amount of missiles after my tail regardless of the amount of Xchaff I throw, so I wonder if DI guys have taken into account the possibility Xof fooling radars with chaff and not only with ECM (I mean ground radars, not Xmissile radars). X XAnyway I keep enjoying Tornado and flying as low as possible! X XCheers. X XJuan A. Hermoso Xherj@cernvm.cern.ch XCERN Meyrin, SWITZERLAND X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Pete Williams" XSubject: AW Questions - Episode 12 X X Yet more newbie questions..... X X 1. True or false - realism options have no effect on network play, the Xoptions are preselected by the host? This would mean that everything is X'off' in page 870(no spins, blackouts, etc), and 'on' in the realism Xarenas. X X 2. How do ammo loads REALLY work? Either my math is deficient or the Xbook has conflicting info: the graph on p.34 says that the FW190 caries X1340 gun shells and 390 cannon shells. Then on p.32 it says that it Xcarried '950 rounds for its two machine guns, 500 for two of its 4 20mm Xcannon, and 280 for the remaining two'. The numbers don't add up Xcorrectly to me. OK, what's the real dope? How can I tell when my cannon Xshells are out? Do the guns fire 1-1 (one cannon shell for every bullet)? X X 3. If my country captures an airfield, does that make it friendly - can XI land there and get full credit for my mission? X X [ Yes. --Jeff ] X X 4. What the hell is a 'flat turn'? X X [ A turn where you only use your rudder. It's a slow turn that doesn't X bleed airspeed as much. --Jeff ] X X 5. Where is the best place to get maps? X X [ Well, there's shift-f10 for an in-flight map. Other than that, a few X squads have maps. --Jeff] X X 6. How long does it take for Konami to register your $50 credit - I Xwant to get the beta version so I can try the full reality page. X X [ They'll send you email when they receive your coupon. As I recall, X it was a couple of weeks for me. --Jeff ] X X 7. Do you find it better to use the 'local hits' option? X X [ Personally I don't. I like to know when I hit my target. The local hits X make it harder to tell. (With local hits on, you see a hit when your X local computer *thinks* it may have hit, and you see debris fall off the X enemy plane if you actually hit it.) --Jeff ] X XThanks; X XPete Williams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: Tornado campaigns X X X Well, using the esteemed Grp. Cpt. deFault 8) I'm in a command campaign... XA few observations: X X1) You wingies always hit their targets; they do not get blown away. X X2) You do. 8) X X3) Therefore, you can hit almost any target by sending the other Tornados Xafter really tough places - dense AAA/SAMs/fighters - and they will be pounded - while you stay alive in some less lethal place. The only thing the wingies Xdon'tseem to want to do is drop JP233 without you around, but this may have Xbeen me screwing up with the waypoint commands too. X X4) Morale is curently listed as "40 - 60", Allied Political Advantage: is Xa low morale number good? This is counter-intuitive for me.... X X5) What you do doesseem to affect the campaign. I have concentrated on wiping Xthe enemy's logistical system from the face of the earth; the enemy is Xlisted by now as having 15% supply, and "none" supply at all airbases. I'll Xreport if I see any fighters - seems to me that w/o fuel there shouldn't be any X(and I've specially blown up all the hardened fuel dumps at all their airbases! 8) If nothing else, despite not concentrating on their airbases per se, Xthe air superiority rating is increasingly in my favor. X X6) Campaigns are FUN! If you enjoy mission planning, you'll love them. I'll Xsecond those who'd prefer a Falcon-style "camapign continues regardless if you Xlive or die on the mission", but it's relatively minor. X XGood luck! X XJames Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 30 ]] END-of-issue030 echo x - issue031 sed 's/^X//' >issue031 << 'END-of-issue031' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I31 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 31 X Wed Aug 18 06:13:15 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X AW Questions - Episode 12 Mark Kuebeler XSubject: AW Questions - Episode 12 X X> 1. True or false - realism options have no effect on network play, the X>options are preselected by the host? This would mean that everything is X>'off' in page 870(no spins, blackouts, etc), and 'on' in the realism X>arenas. X XThe host can force realism options ON, but it will not force options XOFF. In other words, if the host is set up for blackouts and spins, Xyou can't turn them off, but you can enable any realism features X(except realtime and lethality) in non-realism arenas. Naturally, Xthis would tend to put you at a severe disadvantage! X X> X> 2. How do ammo loads REALLY work? Either my math is deficient or the X>book has conflicting info: the graph on p.34 says that the FW190 caries X>1340 gun shells and 390 cannon shells. Then on p.32 it says that it X>carried '950 rounds for its two machine guns, 500 for two of its 4 20mm X>cannon, and 280 for the remaining two'. The numbers don't add up X>correctly to me. OK, what's the real dope? How can I tell when my cannon X>shells are out? Do the guns fire 1-1 (one cannon shell for every bullet)? X> X XIt would not surprise me that the SVGA manual contains errors! X XBasically, all weapons fire at the same time. Although it was possible Xto set guns and cannons to fire separately, anecdotal evidence suggests Xfew pilots ever did this. The reasoning was that shot opportunites Xwere few enough that when they did fire they wanted do as much damage Xas possible. Lethality therefore drops every time a weapon runs out of Xammo. The old AW manual had a nice graph showing the changes in lethality Xat certain ammo load percentages. I'm not sure if it's still valid, but Xit's copyrighted, so I can't reproduce it here. X X X> 4. What the hell is a 'flat turn'? X XI've always understood a "flat turn" to be a turn done in the horizontal Xplane only, as opposed to an out-of-plane maneuver like a yoyo or a loop. XIn a flat turn you use up kinetic energy to change direction, but you Xdon't gain potential energy in the process that you can convert back to Xkinetic E. Thus it is not considered a particularly wise opening move. X X> X> 5. Where is the best place to get maps? X> X XThere are maps of the Europe and Pacific theaters in Windows BMP Xformat in the MPGames library on GEnie. They are slightly more Xdetailed than the in-flight maps. A poster sized map of the ETO can Xbe ordered from GEnie for about $7. It's extremely well done and very Xaccurate. X X> 7. Do you find it better to use the 'local hits' option? X> X XWhen this feature first appeared it was not optional, and quite a few Xplayers demanded that it be made so. As Jeff pointed out, they wanted Xto know when the host acknowledged a hit, not when the front-end Xreported a hit to the host (which more often than not threw the hit Xout the window). I don't use it either, but as a training aid it Xmight help you get a feel for how much lead you need to pull and how Xto judge where the tracer stream is landing when you fire. When you Xget comfortable with your gunnery, turn local hits off so you can see Xwhen the host says you're hitting. X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Tornado Patches etc X X XI recently (yesterday) spent an afternoon talking to the DI people Xfor a GameBytes interview. The following is a summary of the Xcurrently planned patches to Tornado: X X*** IMPORTANT: The patches for the North American and European versions X*** of the game will be DIFFERENT AND INCOMPATIBLE. This is because of X*** the different protection schemes employed. X XRevision A: complete, now testing. Due for release in a day or two. X X This will fix the problem with SAMs *always* completely Xdestroying your aircraft plus a bunch of minor bugs. SAMs will Xnow completely kill around 1/4 of the time, but otherwise Xwill do very heavy damage. Practice flying with bits missing... XThe explanation of the lethal SAMs was quite interesting: the beta testers Xand developers got so good at the game they hardly ever got hit Xand so didn't really notice intense lethality as a problem. X XI've been promised a floppy in the post - I'll upload to onion.rain.com Xjust as soon as I get it. This will be the *European* version - the XNorth America version is being prepared by Spectrum Holobyte. XIt may already be ready... X XRevision B: in preparation, due in a month. This is the major fix. X X Revisions should include: X X - a more sane/authentic handling of radar range switching and the X like X X - a replacement of the Romb mobile SAM launcher with the Strela X 13 which fires IR missiles as portrayed in the game (the X Romb actually fires radar guided missiles - much blushing at DI X for this oversight). X X - support for joystick calibration for all joystick types X X - Revisions / improvements in the mission planner to X X - Reworked Soundblaster code X X - A bunch of other bits and bobs I can't recall because I left X my notes at home :-( X XA final note: also I managed to wangle a test-ride with a prototype XFlightstick pro (the one with a coolie hat) that DI had been given to Xensure it worked with Tornado. I found I much preferred it to the FCS - Xless stiff but a longer, smoother, action and a much more professional Xfinish. X XA final final note: everything is bigger in the US. The US box Xmust have twice the internal volume of the European one. In Texas Xthe must presumably use a packing crate :-) X X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado campaigns X X Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca writes: X X>1) You wingies always hit their targets; they do not get blown away. X XThis definately isn't true. Your wingies are pretty good, but they're Xdefinately not perfect. What happens is that the game only has a finite Xnumber of slots for simulating bombs, bullets, missiles etc. To ensure Xthey aren't used up for you when things get hot (cf. bombs not coming Xoff when you press in Falcon, say) the game doesn't actually model Xmissiles etc fired at the wingies. However, this doesn't mean they Xaren't threatened. The system works out a likelihood of them being shot Xdown from time to time based on the current threats etc. If this gets Xhigh or they get ``unlucky'' ... poof! X X>2) You do. 8) X XCan't disagree with this one. X X>3) Therefore, you can hit almost any target by sending the other Tornados X>after really tough places - dense AAA/SAMs/fighters - and they will be X> pounded - while you stay alive in some less lethal place. The only thing X>the wingies don't seem to want to do is drop JP233 without you around, X>but this may have been me screwing up with the waypoint commands too. X XProbably, I don't recall this being mentioned as a limitation. I think Xyou have to be very sure the JP233 run lines up over the runway. X X>5) What you do doesseem to affect the campaign. I have concentrated on wiping X>the enemy's logistical system from the face of the earth; the enemy is X>listed by now as having 15% supply, and "none" supply at all airbases. I'll X>report if I see any fighters - seems to me that w/o fuel there shouldn't be any X>(and I've specially blown up all the hardened fuel dumps at all their airbases! X XYes, the ground combat model is primarily based on supply/demand logistics Xequation. If strikes on transport choke points and airbases reduce Xsupply and stocks combat efficiency starts to fall off sharpish. X X>8) If nothing else, despite not concentrating on their airbases per se, X>the air superiority rating is increasingly in my favor. X XSee above. X>6) Campaigns are FUN! If you enjoy mission planning, you'll love them. I'll X>second those who'd prefer a Falcon-style "camapign continues regardless if you Xlive or die on the mission", but it's relatively minor. X XI think extra saving facilities will be available with the revision B patch. X XAndrew X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado chaffs X X XJuan A. Hermoso writes: X X>... book by RAF crew... X>when approaching the target (and before any missile were fired at X>them), they started pumping chaff to avoid being targeted by the SAMs X>and AAAs. X> X>Well, I have tried this and I must admit that it does not help a bit. I get X>exactly the same amount of missiles after my tail regardless of the amount of X>chaff I throw, so I wonder if DI guys have taken into account the possibility X>of fooling radars with chaff and not only with ECM (I mean ground radars, not X>missile radars). X XI think I can answer this one fairly definitively. They definately *do* Xmodel chaff etc. However, bear the following in mind: X X1. If you're heading towards the source of radar emmisions chaff Xwill have little effect. It needs to be between you and the Xemitting site to matter much. X X2. The SAM's modelled in Tornado are short-range *Infra-red guided* Xtypes - the radar is used only for initial tracking/ranging/launch. XThat's why they show red rather than orange on the threat warning Xdisplay. To decoy these missiles you need to pop flares not chaff. Why Xinfra-red SAMs? Because these are the types of missiles used to deal Xwith low-level threats like the Tornado. The radar guided stuff is Xtypically long/medium range medium/high altitude work. There was, Xhowever, an oversight: the launcher type that is drawn/documented Xlaunches radar guided missiles in the real world! This will be fixed in Xthe ``revision B'' version of the game (see earlier posting). X X XAndrew X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: COSULICH@area.trieste.it XSubject: About AW X XHi, XI've read messages about AW. You must play it in Arena on Genie, because playing Xit stand alone isn't amusing. But I'm in Italy, so it's very difficult and Xexpensive to connect with Genie: so, what could I do? Could I put the game on Xa network? Is it worth it? XTIA X X[The newer versions of AW (SVGA AW) allow you to connect with another player X and play head-to-head with them. --Jeff] X XCiao Guido X XCosulich@area.trieste.it X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: kongo@hip-hop.suvl.ca.us (Kris Ong) XSubject: virtuality machine X XJust got back from the virtual reality exhibit in Boston. They had this X"Virtuality" machine, that ran a WWI dogfight, two machines hooked together Xfighting in real time, complete with the VR helmet. X XDefinitely worth the wait in line and the $3 spent on it. X XThey also had a hang-glider running on the same machine. X XAny chance this will be showing up at home in the next few years. X XIt was a definite experience. All you in the area go by the World Trade XCenter Bosten and take a ride. X XMade me feel that vacation trip to Boston wasn't a waste of time. X XKris. X Xkrismon@quack.kfu.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 31 ]] END-of-issue031 echo x - issue032 sed 's/^X//' >issue032 << 'END-of-issue032' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I32 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 32 X Wed Aug 18 11:52:03 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado campaigns jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X Re: AW Questions - Episode 12 att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net X Tornado Mig 29 conference tonight MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: Tornado campaigns X X X Thanks to Andrew Stevens for clarification on how DI thinks the XTornado program works.... 8) X X Even with "None" supply, enemy aircraft are still active enough to Xpound my rear areas. (Overall enemy supply listed as 15% for the mission time slot.) Maybe the reports are just wrong? (I've got good enough intel to Xsee everything except NBC items and Decapitation targets.) X X In light of Andrew's revelations, I'll revise my comment to: "your Xwingies get shot down only very rarely". Using what are IMHO stupid flight Xplans for them (spending long periods in high threat areas in order to Xdrop more loads on targets) I still have yet to see an IDS lost. I have, Xhowever, lost ADVs. This does not seem to affect their availability for Xthe next mission (reserve is listed as zero for both - it reflects the Xnumber you can assign at time X.) If there is a background "reserve" of Xplanes in maintenance, then it would be nice to know how many are there. X(Or can you, and I've missed it in the manual & buttons?) X X Last question (for today 8/ ): Will SCUD launchers show up on Xyour ground radar? I tried varied altitudes and angles of approach, but couldn't Xfind any. I could see a very very small one in "explore" mode, just to the Xsouth of the waypoint (so in the end I tried to put my cluster bombs on Xth spot I remembered it as being and, of course, missed.) X XAll my coments/complaints should not hide the fact that I think Tornado is Xterrific. 8) X XI just think it could be better. X XJames Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------- X XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Re: AW Questions - Episode 12 X XMark Kuebeler writes: X X>> 2. How do ammo loads REALLY work? Either my math is deficient or the X>>book has conflicting info: the graph on p.34 says that the FW190 caries X>>1340 gun shells and 390 cannon shells. Then on p.32 it says that it X>>carried '950 rounds for its two machine guns, 500 for two of its 4 20mm X>>cannon, and 280 for the remaining two'. The numbers don't add up X>>correctly to me. OK, what's the real dope? How can I tell when my cannon X>>shells are out? Do the guns fire 1-1 (one cannon shell for every bullet)? X> X>It would not surprise me that the SVGA manual contains errors! X XIt sure does, but it'ss not completely wrong in this case. The graph is Xnot displaying what you think it is. The bars for each ammo type are XSTACKED VERTICALLY; they do not OVERLAY one another. So the FW190 has Xone bar for cannon shells that goes up to 390, and another bar for Xmachine gun rounds that goes up to 1340. 1340 - 390 = 950 gun rounds. X XI'm not sure about the 390 number. I do notice that (500 + 280) / 2 = 390, Xbut can't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China. :^) XI don't have the AW manual with me right now, so I can't make up any more Xlame rationalizations for you, sorry! X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Tornado Mig 29 conference tonight X XHi all, XI hope this gets in a digest before the end of the day. XUnless I got my days wrong, there is an open conference on Genie tonight Xwith the developers of Tornado and Mig 29. From SH will be XGary Sottlemeyer (sp !!??) and Karl Mauer. Gary did the enemy AI Xas I recall (among others I am sure) Karl is customer support. XI do not recall who from DI will be there. If memory serves it starts at X9:30, Wed 18 th. Hit M805 to go there. If I am wrong besure to check Xthe openning announcements for clarification. X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 32 ]] END-of-issue032 echo x - issue033 sed 's/^X//' >issue033 << 'END-of-issue033' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I33 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 33 X Fri Aug 20 19:39:08 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado mis-features Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X AW Newbie Questions - Episode 13 "Pete Williams" Using what are IMHO stupid flight Xplans for them (spending long periods in high threat areas in order to Xdrop more loads on targets) I still have yet to see an IDS lost. I have, Xhowever, lost ADVs. This does not seem to affect their availability for Xthe next mission (reserve is listed as zero for both - it reflects the Xnumber you can assign at time X.) If there is a background "reserve" of Xplanes in maintenance, then it would be nice to know how many are there. X(Or can you, and I've missed it in the manual & buttons?) X XIt just might be worth mentioning this to DI. They definately Xseem willing to refine things in the light of ``field'' experience Xand there may just be a bug with ADV's not running out. X X> Last question (for today 8/ ): Will SCUD launchers show up on Xyour ground radar? I tried varied altitudes and angles of approach, but couldn't Xfind any. X XI think they should show up. I'll see if I can collate a few suspected Xbugs from this list and pass them on to DI along with another invitation Xto join this list. Can anyone out there confirm/deny the SCUD launcher Xthing? I know several folk have noticed how rarely ADV's get hit. X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Pete Williams" XSubject: AW Newbie Questions - Episode 13 X X AW Newbie Questions X X Episode 13 - "Sacrifice of the Virgins" X X When we last saw our hero, he was feeling pretty good about his recent Xsuccesses in page 870. Thanks to some help from a friend, I was able to Xget into the realtime arena for the first time last night. Well, Butch XO'Hare turned back into Chevy Chase last night.... X X Selected my plane (Spit) and took off. Wow, what great response! XSeems even better than playing realtime offline. Super climb rate, too - Xmuch better than 4K/min. Did a couple of gentle areobatics to get the Xfeel of the plane, then took off to put some 'worthy opponents' out of Xtheir misery. Delay=2, so I expected some warps. Flew from A1 down towards XB-land; counter showed about 4 enemies and 2 friendlies in the neutral Xzone. Came in at about 10K, 225 KIAS. Checked radar again, now there are X8 enemies! All of a sudden my radar screen lights up like a christmas Xtree with red and green icons! So many I was incapable of getting any Xpicture of what was going on. Now there are about 10 enemies and 2 Xfriendlies. Why don't I see any dots? Fly on a little further; OK, there Xthey are. I've got at least 3K altitude on them. One spit turns towards Xme. I decide to be conservative; pull up into max conserve energy Xclimb - I'll let him pass under me and then roll inverted and look for Xhis move. He passes under my nose; count to 3 and roll; 1..2..(BANG) Xouch, what happened? (BANG) Help mommy, someone's shooting at me. (*BANG*) XGee, I think I feel a draft in here. (*BANG BANG*) Where the hell did that XP38 come from? X X Kirk: Scotty, full power to the shields! Chekov, get us out of here! X Scotty: Canno' do it Captain - the dilithium crystals are shot. X She's only just barely holding together... X Chekov: Cyptin, lost all power to the warp engines.... X Spock: Captain, logic would dictate a return to page 870 until we X can handle this... X X (**BOOM**) **YOU HAVE BEEN SHOT DOWN** X X I never fired a shot. Everything happened so fast I couldn't Xassimilate it. I flew 3 more sorties, managed one kill on someone even Xworse than me - got shot down all 4 times (the last time I had landed and Xthe airspeed was down to about 10 when I blew up). 'Hammered' really Xwouldn't do justice to my experience; let's call it 'gang rape'. X X Ok, now for today's questions: X X X 1. On page 869, I gather that the visibility has been reduced to some Xlower value, like maybe 8,000 yards. True? X X 2. My gunsight was larger than when I play offline. Even when I pitched Xit out to 800 yards, it was about the size of an offline or page 870 Xsight at about 400 yards. Does this represent a larger hit bubble in 869? X X 3. I'm pretty sure I got a spit on my last flight, but I didn't see Xthe 'a kill has been recorded' message. I did show a 'last kill' number Xwhen I checked my score - is the message eliminated in 869? X X 4. I also noticed that my score was 0. Does this mean they don't keep Xscore, or does the program refuse to print negative numbers? :-) X X 5. The warps seemed unmanageable (but of course the whole damn thing was Xpretty unmanageable) - is warping worse in 869 due to realtime? X X XThanks; X XP te W lli ms (even the name got shot up) X X------------------------------- X XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: TORNADO: Humiliation X XWhat is the most humiliating way to destroy your TORNADO? X XHavy landing w/o gear? Running out of fuel?. Collision with wingman? XI think this is worse: X XThere I was, practicing to land on a road in allied territory X(training area). After touch down, I decided to drive Xalong the road and enjoy the sight of the nearby city. XThen I noticed some green spots in front of me. A few seconds later, XTHEY hit me! ALLIED KILLER TRUCKS!!! It was bright daylight, no fog! XThey should have stopped!!! (major bug, I guess :-) ) X XSo when you decide to land on a road: Beware of those TRUCKS! X(But it was a spectacular experience to see those trucks closing in!) X X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: AW Newbie Questions - Episode 13 X XI'll answer what I can. X X> 1. On page 869, I gather that the visibility has been reduced to some X> lower value, like maybe 8,000 yards. True? X XVisibility range settings vary. It should be stated what they are set Xto in the "message of the day". X X> 3. I'm pretty sure I got a spit on my last flight, but I didn't see X> the 'a kill has been recorded' message. I did show a 'last kill' number X> when I checked my score - is the message eliminated in 869? X XThe person who does the most damage gets credit for the kill. X X> 4. I also noticed that my score was 0. Does this mean they don't keep X> score, or does the program refuse to print negative numbers? :-) X XIf you didn't get the kill, you don't get the score. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 33 ]] END-of-issue033 echo x - issue034 sed 's/^X//' >issue034 << 'END-of-issue034' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I34 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 34 X Tue Aug 24 06:07:58 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: TORNADO mis-features eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dort X JAS accident eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dort X Re: AW Newbie Questions - Episode 1 knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: Re: TORNADO mis-features X X Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk wrote: X> Can anyone out there confirm/deny the SCUD launcher X>thing? X[SCUD launchers showing up on ground radar] X XYes, they definetely show up on ground radar. But remember that Xyou will only see them if they are quite close if you are flying at X200 ft AGL. X XThere is a SCUD-hunting pre-canned mission (I thing in WZ 2) that Xwill allow you to verify this. X XBTW: Just as the manual says, destroying SCUDs during a campaign Xwill do wonders to the morale of your forces. You can kill destroy Xthem with your gun, so it might be a good strategy to keep your Xeyes/ground radar/TIALD wide open when flying over enemy territory Xthat is not too heavily defended. If you spot something suspicious, and it Xturns out to be a SCUD, designate it as a ToT and try to destroy Xit. So will never get bored during flight! X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: eggenste@cantor.informatik.uni-dortmund.de XSubject: JAS accident X X For all those interested in the recent JAS accident: Xit was discussed recently on sci.aeronautics. The postings Xwere rather long, so I don't dare to include them here, but XI have saved two nice messages and can forward them to Xthose interested (however, if more than 20 are interested, XI would like to post them). X XOK, not quite the topic of this newsgroup, but the Xmessages gave a good idea of what fly-by-wire-systems (like Xthose in Falcons or Tornados) are supposed to do or Xare not supposed to do. X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: AW Newbie Questions - Episode 13 X Xknutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) writes: X> > 4. I also noticed that my score was 0. Does this mean they don't keep X> > score, or does the program refuse to print negative numbers? :-) X> X> If you didn't get the kill, you don't get the score. X XI was corrected by a more experienced Air Warrior (Hi Mark). It turns Xout you do get points credit for damage you inflict. X XJim X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 34 ]] END-of-issue034 echo x - issue035 sed 's/^X//' >issue035 << 'END-of-issue035' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I35 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 35 X Wed Aug 25 21:58:22 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado ADV strategies... Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Tornado news from \\illiam of SH, o jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Tornado ADV strategies... X X X XAfter some particularly harrowing interceptor missions in my Xlast campaign I was wondering what strategies people had come up Xwith for interception... X XThe only method I have had noticeable success with is ``boom and dive'' Xi.e. sneek up, accelerate, zoom to altitude, light up the radar, Xpickle off a few missiles and then run away toward the deck (preferably Xtaking advantage of convenient terrain). X XThis works quite well, but somehow I'm left feeling that those 4 Xside-winders might be there for more than decoration. Has anyone out Xthere worked up some more aggresive strategies? I've found dodging Xmissiles with a forward aspect *much* harder than those coming from Xbehind... X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: Tornado news from \\illiam of SH, on AOL X X X(\\illiam is Spectrum Holobyte's support person on America On-Line; Xthis is from a conference on 8/24/93.) X XDI is expected to send SH a Tornado patch this week; there are apparently Xa few last problems caused by the patch that are being ironed out. XI recall hearing that the SH and DI versions of Tornado are slightly Xdifferent; thus I presume that there will be a short delay beyond that before Xthose of us in North America get it. X XThere will probably never be an Allied mode for Tornado. William explained Xthat DI does not seem to have considered modem play when writing the program; Xthe H2H portion of the code was added at the last minute on the insistence Xof Spectrum Holobyte. William said it would require a major rewrite of the XTornado code (not just comms code) to allow for Allied missions; from this I Xdeduce that it ain't gonna happen. 8( Not much we can do about it - except Xhope that maybe DI will decide to do the work.... X X XJames "Overload" Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 35 ]] END-of-issue035 echo x - issue036 sed 's/^X//' >issue036 << 'END-of-issue036' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I36 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 36 X Thu Aug 26 21:00:13 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Tornado news from \\illiam of S Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Patriot V1.1 Robear X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado news from \\illiam of SH, on AOL X X> X>DI is expected to send SH a Tornado patch this week; there are apparently X>a few last problems caused by the patch that are being ironed out. X>I recall hearing that the SH and DI versions of Tornado are slightly X>different; thus I presume that there will be a short delay beyond that before X>those of us in North America get it. X XYes, the patches will be different. This is because SH use a different Xcopy-protection scheme from that used in DI's own (european) release. XDI have promised me a copy of the euro-patch just as a soon as it is Xavailable - I'll upload to onion. X X>There will probably never be an Allied mode for Tornado. William explained X>that DI does not seem to have considered modem play when writing the program; X>the H2H portion of the code was added at the last minute on the insistence X>of Spectrum Holobyte. William said it would require a major rewrite of the X>Tornado code (not just comms code) to allow for Allied missions; from this I X>deduce that it ain't gonna happen. 8( Not much we can do about it - except X>hope that maybe DI will decide to do the work.... X XI think even hoping is probably too optimisitic. Talking to Xthe DI folk for GameBytes (there will be a text of the interview Xin the forthcoming issue - see an ftp site near you) it was clear Xthat it is even just a matter of coding effort. XTornado is an *entirely* real-mode program and makes no use whatsoever Xof extended or expanded memory. There plain isn't space for the comms Xcode to handle allied mode flight. (Note: yes, you *can* run it Xon FAST 286's as long as you can get enough K's free in DOS. ) XThis is in addition to the rewrite of the gameplay code that would be Xrequired to keep the data volume needing to be exchanged Xdown to a level feasible across a serial link. X X>From what I could gather DI have roughly the following Xlist of priorities: X X1. Patches to Tornado to deal with some remaining bugs and tune the Xgameplay. X2. Work on a gulf-war mission disk and/or a mission editor X(this is a lot of work as it will require lots of new ground objects / terrain). X X X3. Moving their 3D engine to a 32-bit DOS-extended environment for Xfuture products. X XMajor upgrades to Tornado weren't really mentioned - I got the feeling that Xthey felt the return on investment wouldn't justify the disproportionate Xeffort required to extend the existing (rather specialised) 16 bit code. X XReading between the lines, I suspect they might consider some refinements to Xthe game engine (e.g. lob-tossing wingies and suchlike) for the mission Xdisk, but it would depend on percieved demand, finding space for the code, Xand available programmer time. X XIt certainly wouldn't do any harm to try to bounce potentially Xfeasible suggestions around on this list and forward the results Xto them. X X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Robear XSubject: Patriot V1.1 X X XThis is turning out to be more of a sim than a game. Any opinions? I've Xposted an overview to csipg.strategy - anyone want a similar article here? X X David Pipes X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 36 ]] END-of-issue036 echo x - issue037 sed 's/^X//' >issue037 << 'END-of-issue037' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I37 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 37 X Sun Aug 29 06:55:12 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X SVGA Art(?)work Mark Kuebeler XSubject: SVGA Art(?)work X X XI've uploaded three cockpit art files for SVGA AW to cactus.org. This Xis quick and dirty artwork, nowhere near the level of photographic Xdetail of the commercial SVGA AW artwork, but it's the best I could Xmanage with no talent and Windoze Paintbrush. Well hell, it's better Xthan no artwork at all! X XThe three files are: X X yak9cook.zip - Yakovlev 9D X p47_cook.zip - P-47 Thunderbolt X dviicook.zip - Fokker D.VII X XThese files have also been uploaded to the MPGames library on GEnie, Xwhich is open to anyone with a GEnie account. As far as I'm concerned Xthese files may be freely distributed, folded, spindled, and Xmutilated. X XComing soon: something vaguely resembling an F6F Hellcat. :> X X------------------------------- X XFrom: schao@monet.uwaterloo.ca (Stewart Chao) XSubject: WCS Mark II Question X XHello All, X XCan anyone tell me if there is a difference between the Thrusmaster XWCS Mark I with the programmable uprom upgrade and the WCS Mark II. XCan the joystick buttons be programmed with the Mark I with upgrade? X XThank you. X XStewart Chao X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: Ooops! X X X \\illiam informed me afterseeing my posting from the AOL conference that Xthe impending arrival of a patch from DI doesn't mean that we may see a XTornado patch soon - patches are sent from DI to SH fairly often for testing. X X I _think_ this means that we (waiting for the patch in the real world) don't Xknow any better than before when it is coming. If I'm wrong again then \\illiam will probably do something really mean to me 8) X XJames Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 37 ]] END-of-issue037 echo x - issue038 sed 's/^X//' >issue038 << 'END-of-issue038' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I38 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 38 X Wed Sep 1 21:49:05 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado: Which version in the store Neal Smith X SVGA Air Warrior art files knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Neal Smith XSubject: Tornado: Which version in the store? X X XHi, X X I've been wanting to get Tornado for awhile, but I never buy Xa game until at least the first patch comes out on it. I understand Xthat the first patch for tornado _is_ out or near being released. X X Can someone tell me if the copies in the stores have this patch Xalready or should I wait awhile until it gets propagated? Also, Xfor this manufacturer, is there a way to tell which version you Xhave by looking at the box? X X XThanks, XNeal Smith Xsasrns@unx.sas.com X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: SVGA Air Warrior art files X XI have moved the files that Mark "Cookie" Kuebeler put on cactus.org Xinto /pub/genie/airwar. X XThere are art files for four different planes: X X f6f_cook.zip - F-6F Hellcat X yak9cook.zip - Yakovlev 9D X dviicook.zip - Fokker D.VII X p47_cook.zip - P-47 Thunderbolt X XIf you have earlier copies of this, you may want to pick them up Xagain as Cookie has updated the guages so they don't look blank. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 38 ]] END-of-issue038 echo x - issue039 sed 's/^X//' >issue039 << 'END-of-issue039' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I39 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 39 X Fri Sep 3 06:05:00 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado freezes bonnet@stna7.stna7.stna.dgac.fr (Ch X Re: Tornado freezes stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Version 1.0a of Tornado Digital Integration Limited : ". Take a look at the DOS manual). X XI had the same problem with falcon3 and disabling the write cache helped. I Xalso don't have problems with Tornado since I use the same autoexec/config Xfor both. X XHope that helps, XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X XPS: Witch DIP-settings on Your WCS are You (anybody else?) using for Tornado? X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Digital Integration Limited XSubject: Version 1.0a of Tornado X X XVersion 1.0a of Tornado is now being shipped. You cannot tell from the box Xwhich version it is. But then again should you wait for version 1.0b which Xmay be released in a months time or 1.0c etc. We do offer an upgrade path for Xthis product! Tornado has been praised for its lack of bugs. If your going to Xbuy it then do so, else don't! There will always be another upgrade to wait Xfor! X X [ How do we get this? Is there a place that I can get a patch??! -Jeff ] X XKevin. X X>>>MATRIX version 1.23a X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Cryptic note of the year X XFrom: WVNET::IN%"digint@cix.compulink.co.uk" 2-SEP-1993 11:06:44.78 X X>Version 1.0a of Tornado is now being shipped. You cannot tell from the box X>which version it is. But then again should you wait for version 1.0b which X>may be released in a months time or 1.0c etc. We do offer an upgrade path for X>this product! Tornado has been praised for its lack of bugs. If your going to X>buy it then do so, else don't! There will always be another upgrade to wait X>for! X X>Kevin. X XOk everybody, I thought I read most everything that came across my desk. XUnfortunately this note has me baffled. Can some kind soul please tell Xme how it fits in? X XLets see, it is from DI XPatch A is shipping attached to new Tornado packages, ok. XIs the patch out yet for us owners? XYou have b and c patches comin?????? X XJust what is with that last line "If you are going to buy it do so, Xelse don't!" Maybe I missed something but that sounds a tad bit testy Xto my uninformed ears. X X XWell at least DI is here. I wish SH would make a larger presence. X X_________________________________________________________________ X XLodgged on to Prodigy last night. Took advantage of free offer. XI see why I left in the first place and will cancel tonight :-( X XAny way..... X XApparently A10 is now second quarter of 94 and F/A 18 (Working title) is Xfirst quarter 94. Which means this time next year we will be loading XA10 for the first time :-p X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Tornado X X[ *PLEASE* edit the subject lines. Saying something like "digest 38" doesn't X mean much of anything. Thanks! -Jeff] X X X> I've been wanting to get Tornado for awhile, but I never buy X>a game until at least the first patch comes out on it. I understand X>that the first patch for tornado _is_ out or near being released. X XThe European version is done, but DI are sitting on it until the US Xversion is completed. Probably a few more days. X X> Can someone tell me if the copies in the stores have this patch X>already or should I wait awhile until it gets propagated? XGiven the above I'd guess it will be quite some time before the patches Xpropagate to the stores. Multiple months probably and even then Xold stock might be around. X X>Also, for this manufacturer, is there a way to tell which version you X>have by looking at the box? X XNot on the box itself of the European version. But who knows if they'll Xpop a sticker or whatever... X XNote also that the current patch is an interim. There's more on the way Xover the next month or two. X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: What happened on the GEnie Scorpia conference last night? X XThere was supposed to be a chat with SH last night on GEnie. Did anyone Xcatch it? What was said? X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 39 ]] END-of-issue039 echo x - issue040 sed 's/^X//' >issue040 << 'END-of-issue040' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I40 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 40 X Fri Sep 3 19:11:48 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X What happened on the GEnie Scorpia Mark Kuebeler XSubject: What happened on the GEnie Scorpia conference last night? X XJim Knutson writes: X>There was supposed to be a chat with SH last night on GEnie. Did anyone X>catch it? What was said? X XThey usually upload the transcripts of RTC's to Scorpia's RT library. X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: roeschmf@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Martin F. Roesch) XSubject: SH Conference on GEnie X X XJim/All, X I happened to be there, but I arrived kind of late and missed the beginning. XMostly, SH seemed to be feeling out what people wanted in the next "Falcon 4.0" Xgeneration of sims. The phrase "hub module with add in vehicle packs" was Xsaid quite a bit from the SH guys, so I'm guessing "Falcon 4.0" is going to Xbe some sort of 32 bit base package with "two or even tehicles included". XBy vehicles, they mean *anything*, from subs to tanks to helicopters to bombers. XThey also said that they are working on a more realistic world environment, so Xyou'll be able to hide your Apache behind that tree stand or hide your tank Xin the blast crater from a 2000 lb bomb. X When the transcript is done being edited, I'll upload it here if no one Xobjects. X X Martin F. Roesch -- roeschmf@craft.camp.clarkson.edu(Internet) X "She's brain damaged? What's the prognosis, doctor?" X "Put her in a rock garden." X -- from Maniac Cop 3 X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Cryptic note of the year X X X>>Version 1.0a of Tornado is now being shipped. You cannot tell from the box X>>which version it is. But then again should you wait for version 1.0b which X>>may be released in a months time or 1.0c etc. We do offer an upgrade path for X>>this product! Tornado has been praised for its lack of bugs. If your going to X>>buy it then do so, else don't! There will always be another upgrade to wait X>>for! X> X>>Kevin. X> X>Unfortunately this note has me baffled. Can some kind soul please tell X>me how it fits in? X XBasically, DI call ``patches'' revisions. They number them XA,B,C,... revision A is the one that was recently completed for the XEuropean release and that will be available as a patch when SH get the Xmodified version for the U.S. copy protectionn scheme done as well. XIt fixes SAM lethality and other little bits. Revision B will fix Xprobably fix the soundblaster driver. Revision C will be the one Xafter B and so on. If I recall right I posted about A and B on this Xlist. X X X>Just what is with that last line "If you are going to buy it do so, X>else don't!" Maybe I missed something but that sounds a tad bit testy X>to my uninformed ears. XI think what Kevin (he's the 3D engine and sim implementation guru) is Xtrying to get across is that there will continually be revisions so it Xis not worth waiting for ``the latest revision'' as there will Xpermanently be a new one in the pipe. X XBear in mind ``digint@'' is shared by multiple people none of whom are Xregular Internet/USENET types and is posted to by much more than readers of Xthis list. A lot of the replies sent out, I suspect, answer stuff that may Xnot have appeared here as they seem to maintain a kind of global Xoutgoing mailing list for ``general interest things''. The combination Xof the two (and a pretty hefty workload) means the emails are often a bit Xcryptic :-) X XI guess a rather terse presentation is the price of getting through to Xthe actual programmers and getting real information, rather than being Xfiltered by P.R. folk and getting marketing stuff. Personally I found Xthem all very friendly and genuinely interested in user feedback, but XI suspect they get quite a few silly messages. See my interview in XGameBytes (at an ftp site near you .... soon :-) ) for details of who Xdoes/did what and all kinds of other stuff related to Tornado. X X XAndrew X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Cryptic note of the year X X> Basically, DI call ``patches'' revisions. They number them X> A,B,C,... revision A is the one that was recently completed for the X> European release and that will be available as a patch when SH get the X> modified version for the U.S. copy protectionn scheme done as well. X XWhat's the policy regarding copy protection? Does DI say whether or Xnot it must have copy protection? Why would SH not have copy Xprotection for Falcon and add it for Tornado? Why should the US Xcopy protection be any different than the European version? X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Cryptic note of the year X X>What's the policy regarding copy protection? Does DI say whether or X>not it must have copy protection? Why would SH not have copy X>protection for Falcon and add it for Tornado? Why should the US X>copy protection be any different than the European version? X XTo be honest I'm not entirely sure... however here's how I understand it: X XThe European distribution has some scheme preventing a working copy being Xtaken of an installed game or Xthe floppies. You can backup both but the original floppies (or some part Xtherof) are needed to make things work if you restore. XThe U.S. (SH) distribution is identical except for this Xcopy-protection component where SH are doing their own thing: either no Xprotection at all or a different scheme. Why was never made entirely Xclear but I got the impression disk duplication issues lay behind it. X XThus, because the binaries in the U.S. version are a bit different so too Xare the patches. Furthermore, they lag a few days behind because their Xdistribution is, of course, derived from the DI ``original'' and they Xcan't get to work until DI are (almost) done on the euro version. X X XAndrew X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 40 ]] END-of-issue040 echo x - issue041 sed 's/^X//' >issue041 << 'END-of-issue041' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I41 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 41 X Thu Sep 9 05:50:25 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado problem -> fixed! bonnet@stna7.stna7.stna.dgac.fr (Ch X Mig 29 vs F15 III MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Other Sims in use? MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: bonnet@stna7.stna7.stna.dgac.fr (Christophe Bonnet CR2A AG01) XSubject: Tornado problem -> fixed! X XThanks to all of you who have posted a reply to my problem. X XI have at least found a solution : In fact, I think that two configuration Xproblems were occurring: X- I have removed a Bios Shadow Ram option in the Bios set-up. X- I now use SmartDrive with read-only cache. XIt seems that my config. need those 2 fixes for Tornado to run without hanging. X XAlso, two minor corrections from my original post: X- I own Falcon 3 for 1,5 year (not 2,5 I'm not from SH ;-) ). X- I don't use the Rudder Control System nor the WCS with Tornado. X XThanks to all. XChristophe Bonnet bonnet@stna7.stna.dgac.fr X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Mig 29 vs F15 III X XHi All, X XWas sitting around thinking, I know the F15 Air Variant has hydraulic Xcontrols and is not fly by wire. Does anhone know if the E variant has XFBW?? I know it was modified for ground attack, but did they include XFBW? X XMy reason for asking is that the one good thing I have heard about F15III, XI have it, is that the flight model is very good for the F15. XCritisms include the you vs the world feel of the game, super weapons, Xand dumb AI. None-the-less I have seen several comments that say the Xflight model of the F15 stands out. Now my question is, if the Xflight model of the F15E is commendable, and it is hydraulic, why is Xis so easy to fly in comparison to the Mig29? I would think the Xconformable fuel tanks and extra wieght would not siginificantly dampen Xthe flight characteristicas when unloaded. X XIs the Mig 29 flight model that good? That is, is the F15 really that Xmuch more difficult to fly than the modeled version in F15III? X XSimilarly, is the Tornado FBW (manual not at hand, memory does not Xserve)? I can handle the Toprnado rather well also. The Mig is the Xstand out of my collection that has proven the most difficult to fly. X XOn another note X--------------- XIs anyone else getting thoroughly fed up with the Hi Fi radar in Mig 29? XMy mind cannot work that fast to fly the aircraft AND frantically Xcheck radar range, lock, IFF, break, X, lock, IFF, set range, infrared.. Xetc. And I am using the WCS to boot. X XMy wishes for fixes to Mig, XA lower radar that allows you to set range beyond the farthest target Xwithin your current scan range. (this for F3 also but I can handle Hi Fi there Xrather well). XA better low fidelity flight model. The Lowest is the pits, I try to Xfly difficult normally, but playing with the lowest it seems there is Xno role at all. If they are going to put a fictional flight model in, why Xnot just duplicate a modified F3 model? How bout a F3 Complex with a few Xenhancements to power and manueverability without all the twitchyness Xof the hydraulic controls. X XAll in all Mig 29 wins in realsim (?) and sytems. But it is losing favor Xwith me in the playability realm. It just isn't that much fun Xto deal with crappy low fidelity flight models and extreme hi fi models. XMore than once I have booted the game, flew half a mission, then just left Xsaying to heck with it and jump over to F3. Oh well, something new to\ Xlearn, but I think the learning curve is artifically high. X XOn another note, I saw a program where the test pilot of the YF-22 advanced Xfighter said it was easier to fly than a Cessna. When designing a plane I Xcan see the logic of taking the majority of the flyin off the pilots hands Xso he con concentrate on SA, increasing complex weapons and ECM. I guess Xthe Soviets (as modeled by SH) haven't learned this yet. X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X XMy opinions are just that, mine. I worked for them so why not use them. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Other Sims in use? X X XHi all, X XI am out to spur conversation :-) XI know we have all been wrapped up in F3, Mig29, and Tornado, but has Xanyone played other enjoyable sims of late(NO!!!! Not X-wing, but it Xis fun! :-) XI was watching wings tonight and recalled a game I had to delete a ways Xback. Has anyone else got into AV8B Harrier by Domark? It is really a Xgreat sim. It is kinda a cross between F3 and Harpoon. It has the X"living world' feel of F3 but you also command troops and other AV8B's. XI recall coming in for a landing and having the Carrier come under attack Xby Helos from the Island (Timor off Indonesia (sp?)). I could not land Xas another Harrier was taking off so I had to reset vectored thrust and go Xaround again to take care of the attackers. The ships did a good job also Xwith their own AAA and missiles. Flying along you would see the ground Xtroops landing and moving in on the targets. The graphics are sparse, XF3'ish and angular, but still ok. I have heard the flight model is very Xgood also though I have never flown an AV8B so could not be sure :-) XAll in all another great sim that deserves a look! X XI do not have Jump Jet but heard mixxed things of it. X XJet Fighter II had some great carriers landings but the weapons were just a tad Xtoo super for me and the AI a bit on the BAD side :-). X XThough not a super "flight sim", Stunt Island has to be one of the funnest sims Xout there that allows the users to REALLY explore creativity with a Xflight recorder! Very well done sounds, graphics, and playability SI is a real Xwinner in the originality dept!!! (I should reload that too) X X F15III is, well, F15III. If AI were bumped up and living world increased Xit would be a REAL winner. COMMS are fun, *RELIABLE*, but choppy at 14.4 :-( X XI would have to add World Circut and Links386 as absolutely SUPER hitech sims Xthough not flight sims. These are a must for anyones collections! X XAny others?? Comments?? Anyone out there dragging themselves away from Xthe SH stuff to see the other stuff?? X XI won't even talk about the Pro Swing system I got from Sports Sciences Xto use with Links!! ;-) X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu XLooking for a computer generated Buzz X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 41 ]] END-of-issue041 echo x - issue042 sed 's/^X//' >issue042 << 'END-of-issue042' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I42 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 42 X Thu Sep 9 13:03:15 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Various comments.... Wilson Chiu XSubject: Various comments.... X XHi there, X XJust a few comments to the articles from MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU, X X>I know the F15 Air Variant has hydraulic X>controls and is not fly by wire. Does anhone know if the E variant X>has X>FBW?? I know it was modified for ground attack, but did they include X>FBW? X XI don't think you should call it the F15 Air Variant! The F15 is an Xair superiority fighter after all.... ;-) Actually, I can't remember if XF15E is FYB, but if you say the F15 isn't, than I wouldn't have Xthought that they could just slapped FYB on the Strike Eagle - it's Xpretty fundemental to the design of the aircraft. X XI like F15 III, despite all its short comings, it's fun to play. I Xreally like their model of the F15E - I don't mean the flight model. XThe external views are really cool. I think I prefer the F15III's Xgraphics to that of F3. X X>Similarly, is the Tornado FBW (manual not at hand, memory does not X>serve)? I can handle the Toprnado rather well also. The Mig is the X>stand out of my collection that has proven the most difficult to fly. X XYes, the Tornado is FYB. They think it was really important to make it XFYB since it would otherwise be very uncomfortable for the crew when the Xaircraft does 700kts at 200ft, no to mention the difficulty in control Xthe aircraft. X X>On another note, I saw a program where the test pilot of the YF-22 X>advanced X>fighter said it was easier to fly than a Cessna. When designing a X>plane I X>can see the logic of taking the majority of the flyin off the pilots X>hands X>so he con concentrate on SA, increasing complex weapons and ECM. I X>guess X>the Soviets (as modeled by SH) haven't learned this yet. X XIt's probably isn't fair to compare the YF-22 to the MiG-29 that way - Xthere are about 20 years different between these 2 planes. X X>I do not have Jump Jet but heard mixxed things of it. X XI have the Microprose Jump Jet - I don't like it! I have given it Xquite a few chances but it left me with no choice but to take it off Xmy hard drive. I don't like the graphics and it doesn't play very Xwell. X XF1GP is a great sim. Unbelievable realism. I love those tire marks on Xthe track! X XCheers, X XWils X XP.S. Where is this patch for the Tornado!!! ;-( XP.P.S. Anyone got a release date for MiG-29 in the UK? X X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Release Dates X XWilson S.C. Chiu wrote: X X>P.S. Where is this patch for the Tornado!!! ;-( X'think You're not the only one who's asking that! :-( X X>P.P.S. Anyone got a release date for MiG-29 in the UK? XMy lokal dealer gave Micropose Germany a call and they said Xthat it will be available here in the middle of September. XHe also said I shouldn't be to dissappointed if it's released Xat the end of September... X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: News on Tornado Revisions X X XAccording to DI the `1.0a' revision is definately complete. Indeed, Xin response to a query about calibrating throttles they say: X X>When you select 2 joysticks mode the program should offer you the chance to X>calibrate boths sticks (revision 1.0a). X> X>Revision 1.0b is just about ready. It includes the following mods:- X> X>1) The ZRK Romb SAM launcher has been changed to a ZREK-BD Strela 10. Lots of X>kindly folk informed us that the Romb did not launch IR SAMs but the Strela X>does so I have fixed another broken gate in our imperfect fence! X> X>2) The enemy fighter barrel roll phenomenon has been fixed. This is where an X>enemy fighter starts rolling on your tail when you fly straight and level. A X>useful feature I thought! X> X>3) In drone view mode the aircraft designation is displayed (ie. VIEW = F16) X>and if the aircraft is in your squadron an abbreviated callsign is displayed X>(ie VIEW = IDS (A) for Alpha etc.). X> X>4) There is now a digital fuel readout on the Pilots' cockpit. X> X>5) When the air radar is switched on the range defaults to the optimum range X>for the currently selected air-to-air weapon. X> X>6) A "dogfight mode" has been added. If you hit the fire key / button when no X>weapons are armed then the currently selected air-to-air weapon is armed and X>the air radar is switched on. X> X>7) The RWR gives an audible warning when incoming missiles are close (ie. use X>chaff / flares NOW!!!). X> X XHopefully, this means the 1.0a *update disk* (as opposed to the new Xbatch of the game) should be `in the post'... X XChristophe Bonnet writes: X>Also, two minor corrections from my original post: X>- I own Falcon 3 for 1,5 year (not 2,5 I'm not from SH ;-) ). X>- I don't use the Rudder Control System nor the WCS with Tornado. X XHas anyone out there had troubles with using the WCS with Tornado. XAsking around it seems that for one reason or another characters sent by Xthe WCS fairly often get dropped. I've mentioned this to DI and they Xsay they'll look into it. They suspect it may be an interaction with Xthe very frequent scanning of the keyboard that they do. XApparently, the reason that they didn't notice it was that the WCS they Xgot loaned for development promptly expired and, implicitly, they Xhad more urgent things to do than get it replaced. X XObviously, the addition of calibration for the throttle will at should Xallow the WCS-II throttle to be used in analogue mode, even if the Xbuttons don't work 100% right. X X XAndrew X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: masten@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Masten) XSubject: F15III vs Mig29 X X X>Does anyone know if the E variant has FBW?? X XI think it does. I'm sure someone will reply more definitively. But XI think I read in one of my many references that it does. I'll check. X X>My reason for asking is that the one good thing I have heard about F15III, X>I have it, is that the flight model is very good for the F15. X XDid I mention the CGW reviewer, and F16 pilot, who said of F15 "SH Xand the F3 team could learn something about realistic flight modelling Xfrom this program"? X XIt does have some errors. You can't acclerate at any speed or altitude, Xin a vertical climb. Even when fuel low and no ordnance. I've read Xthat the F15 (non-E) is the first fighter capable of accelerating in Xa vertical climb to *supersonic*. The E is different, but also has Xmore powerful engines, so I imagine it will do a lot better than the XMPS bird in a climb. Also, they screwed up fuel consumption in AB. XIt's about 3-4x faster than indicated. So it makes the weak A-A Xaspect of the game weaker as you never have the performance you Xshould, and can't use the AB much without going dry. Oh, you also Xcan't maintain more than M1.3 at the altitudes where virtually all Xfighters reach max, 36-40K feet. You can only hit M2+ at 50K+. X XOn the other hand, it seems to model G's, AOA, energy bleed, weight X(ordnance and fuel) and drag. And is pretty controllable (read, no Xridiculous roll inertia). Then again, the flight engineer who posts Xto F3digest menitioned that the F15 has more roll inertia than the XF16 (not suprising with its bulk and undoubtedly greater I). But Xmaybe the E's FBW(?) helps tame any inertia? X X>Critisms include the you vs the world feel of the game, super weapons, X>and dumb AI. X XYup. Though in fairness, it is true Strike Eagles often (usually?) Xfly alone. I still much prefer wingman ops. X X>Now my question is, if the X>flight model of the F15E is commendable, and it is hydraulic, why is X>is so easy to fly in comparison to the Mig29? I would think the X>conformable fuel tanks and extra wieght would not siginificantly dampen X>the flight characteristicas when unloaded. X X"conformal" XI don't know the answer, except either (A) it is FBW, or (B) they Xsoftened it up to make it easier to fly, or (C) SH made the Mig29's Xtougher than it is (hey, they convinced ya'll that the roll inertia in Xhifi was realistic :-)), or (D) all of the above. X X X>All in all Mig 29 wins in realsim (?) and sytems. But it is losing favor X>with me in the playability realm. It just isn't that much fun X>to deal with crappy low fidelity flight models and extreme hi fi models. X XMy exact thoughts on F3! X XSubject: Other Sims in use? X X>I know we have all been wrapped up in F3, Mig29, and Tornado, but has X>anyone played other enjoyable sims of late(NO!!!! Not X-wing, but it X>is fun! :-) X XHey, X-Wing *is* a sim. Of the Star Wars Universe! :-) In Xsemi-seriousness, I think it may be as good a sim of its world Xas any flight sim is of its world. Well, except for all other Xfighters being flown by monkeys. X XI've been playing Air Warrior. But recently got sidetracked by F15III X(after it had been sitting on my shelf for a while, thanx Robin!). X XThanx for the AV8B comments. I understand Domark is supposed to come Xout with an SVGA version that supports accelerated fcns of the S3 (and Xmaybe ATI) chipsets. X X>Jet Fighter II had some great carriers landings but the weapons were just a tad X>too super for me and the AI a bit on the BAD side :-). X XI had fun with JF1 way back. But didn't want more of the same Xgawd-awful flight models. Though the super smoothness and carrier Xlandings do beckon. I'm interested in SH's proposed F18 add-on, or XMPS's F14 (if they can ever clean up enemy AI) for the carrier ops. X X>F15III is, well, F15III. If AI were bumped up and living world increased X>it would be a REAL winner. COMMS are fun, *RELIABLE*, but choppy at 14.4 :-( X XStill fun for all the avionics. But missions get repetitive. Still fun Xfor all the eye-candy. Am I the only one to see the "Elvis" in Iran? X(yes Iran, not Iraq) X X>I would have to add World Circut and Links386 as absolutely SUPER hitech sims X>though not flight sims. These are a must for anyones collections! X XLOVE World Circuit/F1GP! Looking forward to Indycar racing. X XDave Xmasten@beta.lanl.gov X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: WCS I in Tornado X XAndrew Stevens wrote: X>Has anyone out there had troubles with using the WCS with Tornado. X XMe! XAfter several tries to set the Dip-switches in a way that would Xallow at least a throttle control (without that {shift +/-}). XAs far as I remember I found a combination that fit but I was Xvery disappointed as I used it. There were no chance of getting Xa feeling for the translation of the WCS movement into thrust- Xreaction :-( XOk, in falcon3 it sometimes happens that the last AB-stage isn't Xactivated but I got at least a feeling of what stick position Xmeans in thrust. XI don't use my WCS since that frustrating try in Tornado :-((( XIf anyone has got a Dip configuration that works fine on Tornado, Xplease post it here! X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: F15III vs Mig29 X XDave, you've got to give up this complaining about flight models and AI Xon these jet sims. It's time to move on to the prop. plane sims. X XYou just gotta try the online enemy AI with Air Warrior. It's second Xto none. It's extremely difficult to notice patterns in the way the Xenemy flies. Each pilot seems to have a different proficiency and Xstyle. X XYou also get wingman control out the wazzo! Well, let me rephrase Xthat. You can yell and scream what you want your wingman to do and Xmaybe he will and maybe he won't. He's not likely to keep breaking low Xwhen you tell him to do it at 1000' unless he's a total dweeb. You can Xeven do things like order him to attack a particular target or perform Xa specific manuever. You can even ask for help and he will come if he Xisn't too busy himself. Actually, you can control a whole squadron of Xplanes if you want to. X XThe flight model is pretty good and if you're not careful, you'll find Xyourself getting hosed down while in a spin. Weight effects are Xcalculated in and different aircraft have noticably different Xperformance. Weapons modelling is pretty good, but not terribly Xrealistic given an LCOS on the HUD. X XSo, when can I expect to hear all your complaints about climb Xperformance, blackouts, etc. for Air Warrior? I can't wait to hear the Xone about the enemy pilots not being subject to the same G load Xeffects. :-) X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: kbl@linus.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM XSubject: Tornado: Soundproblem with PAS16. HEEEEELP X XAnyone experienced any problems using tornado with the PAS16? All the sounds Xcome out OK except the engine sound. It is cluttered with strong clicks as if Xthe waveforms are not spliced properly. It practically makes it impossible Xto run the game with the engine sound turned on. I would appreciate some help Xif anyone else has the same problem and know of a way to fix it. X XMy 0.02$ on some less fortunate points: X X The now well known SAM problem is a pain. They could at least have X included an 'accellerated mode' like F3 to cut down the coffee breaks when X you have to redo a mission. After takeoff you prepare everything X and then ... dum dee dum ... for 10 minutes (nice scenery but I've seen X it 100 times), a bit of hot action, bombs delivered OK, time to go home X ... dum dee dum ... next enemy SAM covered area coming up, ALARM's away, X incoming SAM, flare flare flare turn turn turn, afterburner off and X BBOOOMMMM - hit cancel and start all over again X (got to make some more coffee :-). X X Considering the amount of activities going on during an attack its X a shame that you cannot follow the action going on elsewhere. It X is true that you can cycle through the drones, but it is difficult X to determine who you are looking at and where he is located. A map X showing the positions of allied forces (at least) with a point and X click drone view would be nice. Anyone else got the feeling that X your allies are mainly doing CAP without engaging anything or anybody? X XOtherwise its a great simulator. Thanx. X XPS: I've got the European version I guess. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: gradient!rogerc@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Tornado questions, M1 Tank Platoon X X XHi all, X XI've been enjoying the hell out of Tornado, but I do Xhave a couple of questions. X XI've done lots of simultor flying, and I've managed to plan Xand successfully complete a few free fire missions. So I'd Xlike to try some campaign and command stuff. But there Xare a couple of things that a puzzling me. X XFirst off, maybe I'm stupid, but I can't figure Xout the payload dialog in the mission planner. I've4 Xfigured out that if I select Standard, I get the ecm Xpod, 2 sidewinders, and the package for the target. Although Xit certanly seems to me that they could give you better Xvisual cues that this is the case. X XBut I'm completely baffled as to whether or not I can Xset up a custom configuration. No matter what I do, Xas soon as I select any weapon, all the other arming Xpoints seem to become available. I can't believe that Xif I carry two ALARMs, I am then unable to carry anything Xelse. What's the deal here? The reason I want to do this Xis so that I can carry a couple of ALARMs along with Xthe primary package. X XSecondly, I'm somewhat confused on the overall approach Xto take when playing a command level. Do I need to worry Xabout defending targets in my territory, or just about Xconducting strikes into enemy territory. I confess that I Xhaven't done command much yet, my first try I set up a number Xof 1 and 2 plane strikes on enemy targets. I ended up blown Xaway, but the others all completed their missions. The results Xwere three destroyed enemy targets, and something like 30 or 40 Xdestroyed ally targets. Is this par for the course, does it Xreflect extra emphasis put on the mission you yourself fly, Xor do I need to worry about putting up planes to intercept incoming Xstrikes? Also, what is the significance of the mission type Xfield in the tasking dialog. Does that really have any effect? X XI do love this simulator, though. The performace/hardware demand ratio Xis the best of any product on the market IMHO. X XOn another topic altogether, I was a great M1 Tank Platoon Xfan. I'm mystified as to why there haven't been more Xattempts to do new improved version of this product. XI saw a rumor that MPS is going to update it, but seeing Xas how they just laid off 160 people and were bought Xby SH, I have my doubts. Anyway, I though it might Xbe interresting to see if anyone had any thoughts on what Xfeatures they'd like to see in an M1 Tank Platoon II. X XHere are some things I though of: X X The terrain from Tornado. Just exactly the way it X is would be fine. Plenty of nice detained structures X and beautiful (and believable) rolling hills to go X hull down behind. X X Larger units. I'd like to see at least company/team X actions, with better artillary and air support. X X Mission planner, preferably as good as Tornado. X The biggest failing of M1 TP was the lack of X a mission planner/scenario editor. X X Better AI. X X Sophisticated method of issuing orders to units. X For example, select a platoon, mark a spot on a map X and then say assume a hull down position behind this X ridge facing southeast and await further orders. X XIt seems to me that all this stuff should be possible. An armor Xsimulator should not place as heavy a demand on the hardware as Xa flight simulator given the comparative speeds of the beasts Xin question. X XAnybody else got any thoughts? X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 42 ]] END-of-issue042 echo x - issue043 sed 's/^X//' >issue043 << 'END-of-issue043' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I43 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 43 X Fri Sep 10 05:54:28 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X M1 Tank Platoon jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X New Simulation Magazine rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Re: M1 Tank Platoon rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Tornado analogue throttle....YUK! Tris Love On another topic altogether, I was a great M1 Tank Platoon X> fan. I'm mystified as to why there haven't been more X> attempts to do new improved version of this product. X> I saw a rumor that MPS is going to update it, but seeing X> as how they just laid off 160 people and were bought X> by SH, I have my doubts. X XAccording to the Microprose rep on GEnie, there are two tank simulators Xin the pipeline (their release dates are NOT imminent). One is a WWII Xtactical game and the other a modern armor combat game. At least one of Xthe reports I read on MP's current troubles said that they intended to get Xback to their roots by concentrating on strategy and simulation games, so Xmaybe these projects will survive (why they ever got into the fantasy/ Xadventure game market is a mystery to me, but then, why anyone would buy a Xfantasy/adventure game is a mystery to me too). X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Tris Love XSubject: Tornado analogue throttle....YUK! X XHi, X XAfter owning Tornado for a month, I've decided that my biggest gripe Xwith the program is the analogue throttle control. I use a CH FlightStick Xwith the ThrustMaster RCS. I find that Tornado rarely even *detects* the Xthrottle and rudder; when it does I immediately switch to Joystick 1 Xanyway. X XI find that adjusting speed under autopilot just seems much more Xrealistic (and quicker!) using the +/- keys on the keypad. X XPerhaps things would be better if I hadn't removed the 'clicker' on the Xthrottle wheel...but the clicker is *so* annoying in every other flight Xsim! X XDoes anyone fly Tornado with the analogue throttle? I've just given up Xhope! X X+---------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ X| Tris Love | Internet : love@manadon.ac.uk | X| Royal Naval Engineering College | CIX : tlove@cix.clink.co.uk | X| Plymouth | CIS : 100023,2613 | X| United Kingdom | Voice : (+44) 752 553740 Ext 81283| X+---------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado questions X X'accellerated mode' like F3 to cut down the coffee breaks when X> you have to redo a mission. X XIt would have been nice. X X>... next enemy SAM covered area coming up, ALARM's away, X> incoming SAM, flare flare flare turn turn turn, afterburner off and X> BBOOOMMMM - hit cancel and start all over again X XThe crucial trick to taming to the SAMs (100% lethal or otherwise) Xis to ensure the ALARM's have time to do their job without the Xbaddies getting off lots of launches and closing the range. XIf you're using ALARM alone in direct mode this pretty much means Xdodging out of the way for 10-20 secs before heading back in toward the XSAM area. If you're relying on ALARM fired in indirect mode Xyou need to be dead sure you allow 25 seconds *after the ALARM Xhave deployed their 'chutes* for them to lock on and hit their Xtaregts before, showing up in range. X XA favourite tactic of mine is to indirect ALARM an exit choke-point on the X*way out*, nip in just long enough to light up the radars, and then Xcontinue out toward my targets. That way the ALARMS get *plenty* Xof time to do their stuff. X XPS XHas anyone experimented with using wing-men to light off radars Xfor ALARM's launched by yourself? I've been too lazy to experiment :-) X XAndrew XENDMAIL X Xmail hitech-sim@com.rain.onion X X>First off, maybe I'm stupid, but I can't figure X>out the payload dialog in the mission planner. I've4 X>figured out that if I select Standard, I get the ecm X>pod, 2 sidewinders, and the package for the target. Although X>it certanly seems to me that they could give you better X>visual cues that this is the case. X X>But I'm completely baffled as to whether or not I can X>set up a custom configuration. X XBasically, the trick is to select one of the free (-'ed button) packages Xand pile your custom stuff into that. The letter-ed packages for the Xtarget are effectively locked to the weapons specified to the target Xway-point. Things are little more complicated by the constraints on Xwhat can be hung where. I found a careful re-read of the manual where Xthey detail which shading of a hard-point indicates what very helpful. X XA useful trick (from memory!) if you're running short on slots to hang XALARM dump 1 or 2 side-winders. You rarely get to use them (unless you Xfind an unlucky chopper :-) ) and the same hard-points can carry ALARM. X X>Do I need to worry X>about defending targets in my territory, or just about X>conducting strikes into enemy territory. I confess that I X>haven't done command much yet, my first try I set up a number X>of 1 and 2 plane strikes on enemy targets. I ended up blown X>away, but the others all completed their missions. The results X>were three destroyed enemy targets, and something like 30 or 40 X>destroyed ally targets. X XI'm pretty syre you need to put up CAP's and other ADV missions to Xprotect your own territory. No air-defence = results described Xabove. According to DI you can actually come home to find Xyour air-base has been partially or totally destroyed! XCan anyone out there who's done lots of command comment? XI haven't exactly done it a bunch myself either... X XAndrew XENDMAIL X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado: Soundproblem with PAS16. HEEEEELP X X>Anyone experienced any problems using tornado with the PAS16? All the sounds X>come out OK except the engine sound. It is cluttered with strong clicks as if X>the waveforms are not spliced properly. X XI think that, basically, the current soundblaster driver is hosed and Xthis is one of its many symptoms. The problem (apparently) relates to Xflaky DMA hand-shaking so it doesn't work on all cards. The person who Xwrote the driver (a contractor) has since left DI, so they're having to Xpretty much rewrite the driver from scratch. The work-around is to use Xthe AdLib mode (does the PAS have the Yamaha or OPL synth chip?) which Xworks reliably but, alas, doesn't sound quite so nice. X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: WCS-I woes X X XJoerg writes about WCS misery: X>After several tries to set the Dip-switches in a way that would X>allow at least a throttle control (without that {shift +/-}). X>As far as I remember I found a combination that fit but I was X>very disappointed as I used it. There were no chance of getting X>a feeling for the translation of the WCS movement into thrust- X>reaction :-( X XYes, I think this is one of the main symptoms... X X>Ok, in falcon3 it sometimes happens that the last AB-stage isn't X>activated but I got at least a feeling of what stick position X>means in thrust. X>I don't use my WCS since that frustrating try in Tornado :-((( X>If anyone has got a Dip configuration that works fine on Tornado, X>please post it here! X XThings aren't soooo bad if you have a WCS-II. You can use the shift +/- Xcombinations to automatically re-calibarate'' around the AB detent. XWith the analgoue stick calibration in rev. a it should be possible to use it Xvery nicely in analogue mode. Certainly, the development Xversion of Tornado (Italian!) I saw at DI a few weeks back Xworked very well with the throttle control on DI's pre-production XFlight-stick pro. (This was a very nice stick actually, Xa good lower-cost intermediate between buying a FCS + WCS combo and Xan ordinary stick). X XHere's a reasonably o.k. set-up for the WCS-II: X XFCS XGAME 1 XBTN UB ALTD ENT ALTU ; XBTN MB CTLD ENT CTLU k ENT XBTN LB CAPS XBTN HU HOME HOME XBTN HR ALTD CAPS ALTU XBTN HD PGUP PGUP XBTN HL n XBTN HM | XWCS XBTN 1 f XBTN 2 c XBTN 3 e XBTN 4 r XBTN 5 ALTD r ALTU XBTN 6 CTLD r CTLU XRKR UP w XRKR MD | XRKR DN s XTHR 60 19 = - _ + = - X XCaveat: button clicks are still occasionally dropped, and there seems to be a Xbug with CAPS (testing at the MS-DOS prompt suggests the WCS won't send it). XI use the coolie hat in analogue mode (joysick 1 set to FCS in Tornado). X XAnyway, here's hoping DI find a fix or work-around (soon)... I've just bought Xa WCS-II to go with my FCS! X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado questions X X X>First off, maybe I'm stupid, but I can't figure X>out the payload dialog in the mission planner. I've4 X>figured out that if I select Standard, I get the ecm X>pod, 2 sidewinders, and the package for the target. Although X>it certanly seems to me that they could give you better X>visual cues that this is the case. X X>But I'm completely baffled as to whether or not I can X>set up a custom configuration. X XBasically, the trick is to select one of the free (-'ed button) packages Xand pile your custom stuff into that. The letter-ed packages for the Xtarget are effectively locked to the weapons specified to the target Xway-point. Things are little more complicated by the constraints on Xwhat can be hung where. I found a careful re-read of the manual where Xthey detail which shading of a hard-point indicates what very helpful. X XA useful trick (from memory!) if you're running short on slots to hang XALARM dump 1 or 2 side-winders. You rarely get to use them (unless you Xfind an unlucky chopper :-) ) and the same hard-points can carry ALARM. X X>Do I need to worry X>about defending targets in my territory, or just about X>conducting strikes into enemy territory. I confess that I X>haven't done command much yet, my first try I set up a number X>of 1 and 2 plane strikes on enemy targets. I ended up blown X>away, but the others all completed their missions. The results X>were three destroyed enemy targets, and something like 30 or 40 X>destroyed ally targets. X XI'm pretty syre you need to put up CAP's and other ADV missions to Xprotect your own territory. No air-defence = results described Xabove. According to DI you can actually come home to find Xyour air-base has been partially or totally destroyed! XCan anyone out there who's done lots of command comment? XI haven't exactly done it a bunch myself either... X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Dodging SAMs X X X> The now well known SAM problem is a pain. They could at least have X> included an 'accellerated mode' like F3 to cut down the coffee breaks when X> you have to redo a mission. X XIt would have been nice. X X>... next enemy SAM covered area coming up, ALARM's away, X> incoming SAM, flare flare flare turn turn turn, afterburner off and X> BBOOOMMMM - hit cancel and start all over again X XThe crucial trick to taming to the SAMs (100% lethal or otherwise) Xis to ensure the ALARM's have time to do their job without the Xbaddies getting off lots of launches and closing the range. XIf you're using ALARM alone in direct mode this pretty much means Xdodging out of the way for 10-20 secs before heading back in toward the XSAM area. If you're relying on ALARM fired in indirect mode Xyou need to be dead sure you allow 25 seconds *after the ALARM Xhave deployed their 'chutes* for them to lock on and hit their Xtaregts before, showing up in range. X XA favourite tactic of mine is to indirect ALARM an exit choke-point on the X*way out*, nip in just long enough to light up the radars, and then Xcontinue out toward my targets. That way the ALARMS get *plenty* Xof time to do their stuff. X XPS XHas anyone experimented with using wing-men to light off radars Xfor ALARM's launched by yourself? I've been too lazy to experiment :-) X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Patches... X X XAccording to Digital Integration the 1.0b (and thus presumably the X1.0a patch as well) have been uploaded to CIX. Does anyone out Xthere know anyone with a CIX account who could yank down a copy... X XI'm still trying to grab a copy on floppy. (This is the european Xpatch only of course - SH do the North American ones). X X Andrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: ALARM modell in Tornado? X XAndrew wrote about his (and mine ;-) prefered ALARM tactic: X X> [...] A favourite tactic of mine is to indirect ALARM an exit choke-point X> on the *way out*, nip in just long enough to light up the radars, and then X> continue out toward my targets. X XOk, the manual says that the ALARM modelled in Tornado has operating-radius of about X10.8 NM. So what I do is to look at the distance circle in the HUD and when it reaches Xthe 6 I fire some ALARM. Now the questions (preferable answerd by some DI guys ;-): X X1) Does the ALARM (fired in inderect mode) detect hostile radar emmisions during the X approach or does it the zoom-climb anyway? X2) Does the ALARM burn its fuel until it has run out of it (and then starts the zoom- X climb) or does it shut of the engine when it has reached the waypoint and start X the climb right above it? X X> Has anyone experimented with using wing-men to light off radars X> for ALARM's launched by yourself? I've been too lazy to experiment :-) XMe too ;-) XBut I saw in the drone-view that my wingie fired his ALARMS in indirect mode just Xlike I ordered him to do in the mission profiling. (He's a very good guy ;-) X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Payload Dialog X XMr. "gradient!roger" - sorry, but You didn't sign with Your real name - asked: X X>[...] I can't figure out the payload dialog in the mission planner. [...] X XThe point is that You have (in the IDS) four packages: X,Y,Z and "Other". XIt depends on Your waypoints if one of them is filled up with ordonance. You Xdetermine in Your waypoint setup the contents of a certain pagage, You X*cannot* change the contents of a "target package" in the payload dialog. XJust an example: You have two targets on Your flight path, X and Y. While setting Xup the target waypoints You decided to use 2 1000 GBPs on X and 2 LGBs on Y. XWhen You enter now the payload dialog You will see that You have the packages X,Y, X"-" and "other" where Your Sidwinders and ECM/Chaffs/Flares pods belong to the X"other" package. You are now free to load anything You want (e.g. ALARMs, more side- Xwinders, etc.) into the "-" package if ther are any pylons (sp?) unused. X XTo DI: XIt would be nice if You could give Your wingmen some extra ALARMs (if they can be Xloaded) as "weapons of oppertunity". I'm also missing a payload dialog for my Xwingmen. X XDespite our disscussion in some former issues it seems to me that my wingies are Xalmost never hit by SAMs or AAA, so I continue to send them on targets _I_ would Xnever attack and engage some less protected sites myself. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 43 ]] END-of-issue043 echo x - issue044 sed 's/^X//' >issue044 << 'END-of-issue044' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I44 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 44 X Mon Sep 13 06:22:37 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X New M1 Tank Platoon thoughts. X Flight show report stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: XSubject: New M1 Tank Platoon thoughts. X XI for one would love to see a new M1 TP. I loved the old version and Xif I hadn't gone to a machine with only 3.5 drives I'd still be Xplaying my copy of it. X X Things I'd like to see in the new one: X X 1. Improved AI for both Friend and Foe. Some times Xthe comanders on other tanks just walk right into fire fights and Xnever return a shot....and they've got max on everything. X X 2. A better Nightvision. In the books it states that Xwe should have the advatange at night but I can't remeber how many Xtimes I've been hosed down and never seen who was shooting at me. X X 3. Better mission planning...larger scale opertaions. XI'd like to have some more support and be able to design my own custom Xopps.. i.e. with how may tanks and such I'll have what the bad guys Xwill get and how much. X X 4. Better Commands... I hated have to put each tank Xinto postion for hull down combat. Any drive/comander should now how Xto do that outa school...I would think. X X And of course improved graphics....but it dosen't have to be Xso good that my 486 won't run it....I have no plans to purchase a XPentium any time soon....I liked the old graphics...you could tell Xwhat was what....but I think they could make it look a little better Xwith out a big drain on the CPU....armour sims really don't need as Xmuch as flight sims....there are just as many weapons and type to Xtrack in a flight sim as a tank sim...just that tanks don't need as Xmuch CPU time for modeling the handeling. X XGreg X- -- X******************************************************************* XGreg Knoch | Good....Bad......I'm the guy with the gun. XNew Mexico State U. | Xkknoch@dante.nmsu.edu | (Ash - Army of Darkness) XGo Dolphins !!!! | X------------------------------------------------------------------- X \ _ / X *__________\_(0)_/__________* F/A-18 Hornet X @ @ (](_o_)[) @ @ X o o X******************************************************************* X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Flight show report X XHi all, X XYesterday there was a flight show at the "Jagdbombergeschwarder 31 X'Boelke'" at Noervenich Air-base, Germany. XThe main fighter of that squadron is the Tornado GR4 (the IDS variant), Xso there were many of them exhibited. I had the chance to talk to a pilot Xof the RAF who brought an Tornado F3 (ADV variant) to Noervenich. XI also talked to a F16-pilot from the Belgian Air Force who joined the Xshow with an F16 from the "number 1 squadron" (Florennes, Belgium). X XThe show itself was nothing spectacular, just a few turns and some by-pass Xflights along the runway. X(Since the Ramstein disaster they aren't allowed to fly over the spectators X or do anything exiting in Germany.) XOne very impressing thing was the "Sarajevo-approach-landing-maneuver" of Xa C 160 Transall. She came in with almost no AoA and the pilot pulled her Xup at the last moment, just as I thought they would crash into the runway. X XThere was also an F15 Eagle from the U.S.A.F (48th Fighter Wing). XI remembered that I have once seen a Demo from F15III and that I was Xastonished that the HUD is placed all over Your front sight- it's true, Xit really does. I asked the pilot if the forward looking IR-picture is Xdisplayed all over the HUD and he said "Yes (or 'Yeah' ;-), it's like a XB/W television only that You've got it in green and grey". XHe also said that in desert storm almost every AA-kill was made BVR. He Xnever used his guns during that time. After I asked him, why there was no XAA-kill by an F16 he smiled and said "That's because they only put bombs Xat them". X XSince the re-unification Germany has a squadron of 24 MiG-29. There was one Xtwo-seater exhibited and one Fulcrum (one-seater) did a flight show. The Xtake-off of the Fulcrum was very impressive; when the gear was up it Xnearly climbed vertical into the sky. XAnother impressive maneuver was a real hard turn; he rolled the Fulcrum to X90 degree and turned very hard, loosing some altitude. But after leveling out Xhe flew at the opposite direction he came from - and that in less than about X3-4 seconds. XUnfortunately he didn't do the "Cobra" but he did a few of that low speed, Xhigh AoA bypass flights. XSince the Fulcrum hasn't landed in Germany (come on MicroProse!) I didn't Xknow what questions I could ask the crew; sorry. X XIn order to enlighten (or making it more confusing) the IAS/TAS/whatever-speed Xdiscussion I asked the Belgian F16 pilot about it. He said that there is a Xswitch in the cockpit where he can choose between three modes: X1) Ground-speed: used for navigation X2) Calibrated Air Speed: used during AA-fight and landing X3) True Air Speed: used on Air to Ground runs X XHe also said that he normally carries 15 Flares and 30 Chaffs and that Xa normal load for an A-G mission would be 6 CBUs. In Europe they don't Xcarry Mavericks. X XI also asked him about the G-lock and he said that it starts with Your Xsight becoming grey, then You got the tunnel-vision and then You are Xknocked out, but You will recover in about 5 seconds. He also said that Xit would depend on every pilot, of course, but this would be the average. X XTornado X======= X XI had the manual with me and asked several pilots a few things about it. XFirst of all, the instruments are modelled correct in the front seat. XThe crews were very surprised to recognize everything. Only the back- Xseat-model is not exactly, i.e. the dimensions are not correct. The weapon- Xpackage display, e.g. is to the lower left of the WSO. All were astonished Xthat the various HUD modes were correct. XAll in all, DI has done a very good job! X XAt the Luftwaffe the normal travelling speed is 420 knts and attack speed is X540 knts. All crews said that 5 Gs are no problem, i.e. not even a gray-out Xappears. X XI asked the RAF pilot about standard AA-tactics and he said that the ADV Xwas designed for BVR-kills. A dog-fight would be a bad idea with the XTornado because of it's weight and miserable turn-rate, compared to other Xfighters. XThe best way to get a kill would be to lock on the enemy when he's at Your X12 and launch a Sky Flash when he's 20 miles away. Then he would do a bracket Xmaneuver, "painting" the enemy because he has only the semi-active version Xof the Sky Flash (whereas DI modelled the "fire and forget" Sky Flash). X XI asked an IDS pilot how he controls his plane at those low-level flights, Xand he said "Well, You just look outside the plane and see whether You're Xat the right altitude" ;-) XThey also have got that E-Scope, only that You can see there everything in Xfront of You, e.g. buildings, High-Voltage lines, etc. XAt least the Germans have a HUD mode for terrain following. He described it: X"You have a circle in Your HUD and all You have to do is to place the Xflight path marker in the center of the circle". X XAs I asked him about the task-sharing between the pilot and the WSO he said Xthat the pilot actually flies the plan whereas the WSO makes the navigation Xand everything concerning the weapon management (that's why he's called WSO X;-). XBTW, the WSO can "design" the width and length of the bomb carpet of Xanti-runway sub-ammunition dispensers. X XThe pilot has a priority button with which he can override the WSO weapon- Xmanagement. If he presses that button the AA weapons are automaticly armed, Xi.e. the sidewinders and the guns. X XThe next I asked the crews was the design of the RWR. All in all it looks Xlike it is modelled by DI but You get letters on the display, what the Xthreat is, e.g. and "H" for a Hawk. XAs I asked if/how they can determine how far away the threat is they said: X"Now I'm afraid that I can't help You, because we are getting into areas X of secrets" (which happened a few times at other questions). X XWell, the British and the Belgium pilot said that You *see* when a ground Xto air missile is fired at You, i.e. You see the launch and the see the Xsmoke of the rocket engine so You can determine how far it is away. XThe only problem is that nowadays more and more of the missiles have a Xsmoke-less engine (shame on the enemy! ;-). X XAll pilots said that there is a good chance to escape from a ground to Xair missile. A standard maneuver for radar guided missiles would be to Xbring it to Your 9/3 and dump Chaffs (and, of course, maneuver ;-). XThey also said that G-A missiles almost ever calculate there flight to Xlead pursuit, so "It's pretty easy to out-maneuver them". X (Why do I always have such difficulties to do that? ;-) XOh, yeah, and: "Triple A is no threat at all if You're going in fast Xenough" -well, at least that I can confirm from my "simulator hours" ;-) X XI also asked them about the ALARM and was surprised to hear that the Luft- Xwaffe doesn't have it. They use the AGM88 Harm for anti-radiation purposes. XAs I asked the RAF guy about it he said that it is not loaded to the ADV Xbut it has an indirect mode. You can fire it and if it detects some hostile Xradar emissions for only a short time it will do the zoom-climb right above Xlast know position of that emission. X XThat's all for today from Germany. XWatch the ground for launches, X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 44 ]] END-of-issue044 echo x - issue045 sed 's/^X//' >issue045 << 'END-of-issue045' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I45 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 45 X Tue Sep 14 06:35:36 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado: An SAM avoidence Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Tornado: An SAM avoidence X XHi! X XAndrew (Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk) Xwrote: X>The crucial trick to taming to the SAMs (100% lethal or otherwise) X>is to ensure the ALARM's have time to do their job without the X>baddies getting off lots of launches and closing the range. X>If you're using ALARM alone in direct mode this pretty much means X>dodging out of the way for 10-20 secs before heading back in toward the X>SAM area. X> [... on using ALARMs in indirect mode ...] X XI tried this and it works fine, but often it will mess up your Xtime schedule and sometimes I got painted by a CAP or a EWR while Xmaneuvering around. X XHere is an alternative approach I also tried with some success, I would like to Xhear comments on it: X XIf your target is close to a SAM and you get a SAM warning right in front of you Xwhile approaching your target at >=520 kts, do the following X X- switch ECM on X- start dropping CHAFF (sic!) X- do some modest maneuvers but continue to approach the target at high X speed. X- if you have an ALARM, launch it in direct mode X- keep on dropping chaff X(especially usefull on a JP233 run: it's not so easy to line up with the Xrunway once you left the route in your flightplan). X XDropping chaff and doing some light turns seems to stretch the Xtime betweeen the SAM warning and a missile launch. XOften, no SAM at all is launched because the ALARM hits first. XIf a SAM is launched, you should already be *very* close to the XSAM-launcher, and it seems that SAMs are less likely to hit you once Xyou are *very* close to the launcher (the SAM goes straight up first Xand then seems to loose contact with a low and close enemy, maybe because Xyour aircraft is crossing the missile's field of vision too fast (?????)). X XThis can also be used in combination with indirect mode ALARMS, to decrease Xthe danger of a launch during the ALARMs way down to the SAM-launcher. X X XI also tried dropping chaff during the process of Xlocking onto an enemy aircraft,firing a Skyflash on it and doing Xa split S at mach 1.1+ to get to the ground fast. I'm still Xnot sure whether this delays enemy missile launches, but I suspect Xso. Have others tried it? X XThanks in advence, and stay low XHeinz-Bernd X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: An SAM avoidence X XHein-Bernd wrote: X X[about how to delay the launch time for SAMS] X>[...] -switch ECM on XAt least this I can confirm. I also noticed that switching on ECM as soon as the Xfirst bilp appears delays the launch (even if You fly straight on). X X> -start dropping CHAFF (sic!) X> - do some modest maneuvers [...] XI think what this maneuver produces is a "wall" of Chaffs behind You, so the XSAM radar controller has difficulties to see *YOU* in front of this wall. XI haven't tried that, yet. X X> -[comments about a fast bypass of the launcher] XI don't know how DI has modelled the ground radar of the SAM launcher, but in F3 Xthe ability of a SAM site to get a lock on You would also depend on what type of Xradar (i.e. CW/Doppler) they use and Your relative position to the site. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Wilson Chiu XSubject: Tornado etc.. X X XHey, what excellent report by Joerg!! Thank you very much for telling Xus about your interviews with real Tornado pilots - were they quite Xhelpful and friendly? I was at the International Air Tatoo a couple of Xmonths ago (where the MiG 29's crashed!), Xthere were plenty of tornados there, but there weren'y any Xpilots to talk to the crowd! I found a USAF pilot by his A-10 but he Xwasn't too forthcoming with my questions. X XHow did you find out about the HUD views? Did they let you see the Xcockpits or did they tell you about it? X XI may have made a mistake when I said last week that there was some X20 years difference between the MiG 29 and the YF 22. Does anyone when Xthey started developing the YF 22? The MiG 29 first flew in 1982, so Xconsidering they would have started working on the MiG say early 70's, Xso maybe I should have said about 15 years of difference between the Xtwo planes. X XDoes anyone know how much MiG 29 is likeing to cost over here in the XUK? I have read that it might be about 20 pounds, if that's true then Xit's not too bad! X XCome on Spectrum Holobyte, distribute MiG29!!! X XWils X X"MiG what? Sorry, never heard of it - let alone a release date..." X X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Tornado etc... X XHi Wilson, X XThanks for the flowers... X X> [...] were they [the Tornado pilots] quite helpful and friendly? X> How did you find out about the HUD views? Did they let you see the X> cockpits or did they tell you about it? X XThey were *very* helpful and friendly. See, the army hasn't that Xgood image here in Germany like in the US. I think that's because Xwe had the third Reich and so on. XMoreover the public is quite upset about the noise that birds are Xmaking and the costs and so on. We have a politcal discussion here Xif the German army should or *may* join UN-forces at peace-keeping or Xpeace-making mission. But this list doesn't intend to deal with Xpolitics, so I'll go on answer Your questions. X XAs I wrote I got the Tornado manual with me and I showed it to the Xguys. The reaction was nearly always the same; they took a look at Xthe cabin-picture, took a closer look and called other pilots/WSOs Xthat stood near them to get a look too. X XI showed them the pictures of the HUD modes and they said "Yeah, Xthat's it! That's exactely what it looks like". XOne did even climb the stairs to the cockpit in order to see if Xthe radar-altimeter is at the right place. X XAfter having talked to them I asked them for a short look into the Xcockpit but ther faces went sad everytime and they said "Sorry, it's Xsecret". (You can bet that I tried it about 10 times) X XWell I got the impression that they were quite lucky to talk to some- Xone who wasn't a complete newbie. My girlfriend said that it has Xlooked very funny how the Belgian F-16 jock and I were flying maneuvers Xwith our arms ;-) (that was as he told me about evasing maneuvers from XSAMS) X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: dvallis@swamp.alt.ns.ca (Darrin Vallis) XSubject: Tornado and Indirect ALARMs..HELP! X X I've been a lurker on this list since my local system had no Xinternet address, but no more! My last day as a Persona Non Grata. X Myself and my brother fly Tornado weapons officer / pilot on Xmissions, which works out well, and have logged 16 hours so far. All Xthe normal bugs like stupid wingmen running you down, soundblaster Xcrashing and an analog throttle impossible to calibrate still don't Xlessen our enthusiasm for the game. One thing though.....SAMs ! One Xhit and it's H'Asta La Vista Baby. X In an effort to solve this problem we rely heavily on ALARMS. XBasicly just blast our way in to the target through the SAM sites with XALARMS on direct mode. This works, sometimes, but there must be a better Xway. X How do I make the ALARM actually work in the indirect mode? It seems Xthat even when I launch at maximum stand-off range (10 nm or 6 on the range Xclock) they just zoom climb to height, hang and EVENTUALLY fall on nothing! X X What's the trick? X Darrin Vallis X X dvallis@swamp.alt.ns.ca X X------------------------------- X XFrom: cvy@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au XSubject: the 4108.03. upgrade to F15 III X XHi all, X has anyone seen this beastie? if so, would you please email me Xabout an internet location. I recently bought the F15III, and the *&^*^ Xthing locks up in the hanger before you get to do ANYTHING! X Sod. X I have read the manual untill I'm green (with envy at those Xthat CAN play) and I pat bill (my computer) and say there there, it Xwill work one day and I watch the intro screen but, I really would like Xto do something. (Idon't like to JUST watch) X X BTW I recently (last week) managed to con a 486DX266 with local Xbus and an s3 local bus video. Gosh (let me say that again, gosh) does Xfalcon play nice now! All I have to do is get a decent joystick. X Can I mention world circuit here? (well bugger me, I just did, Xdidn't I ... well it just goes to show.) world circuit at 25 frames/sec Xis quite lovely. So, all in all, bill (my computer, remember) has been Xa busy lad, but i would like to see the (almost) legendary clouds in XF15, so, if anyone has the patch, or knows where I can get it etc. X XBTW has anyone else had a complaint from a neighbour about playing Xfalcon3 to loud? I had the police around asking me not to yell "kilo Xmike alpha!" and "yes!" so loud at 4 am. whoops. (BTW also, they Xassumed I was involved in, well, *ahem* *blush* loud sex. I said that I Xkinda was.) sorry. X XChuck X Xcvy@newt.phys.unsw.edu.au X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Tornado and Indirect ALARMs..HELP! X XHi Darrin, XWelcome to list. X X> How do I make the ALARM actually work in the indirect mode? XWe discussed that topic in Issue 43 (and in some earlier ones). XYou should get it via anon-ftp from onion.rain.com X(/pub/hitech-sim/maillist/volume001/issue???). XThe trick is that the ALARM find its target with a passive radar emmision Xdetector. So You have to do something (almost poping up at some distance) Xto make the SAM guys light up their radar. X XOh, I just read what I've written above and it leads to an important question: XShouldn't the SAM-launcher *always* have turned his radar on??? -I mean, that Xlow-level approach is used to sneak in beyond its radar... XBut if a SAM laucher has turned on his radar continously the ALARM would do Xthe job without the need for You to pop up. XI guess that DI has defined a "sphere" around Your plane and the SAMS will only X"appear" when they are in that sphere. That would also fit DIs "weapon-slot"- Xstrategie sombody (Andrew?) has mentioned a few issues ago. X XAny comments? XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Real Tornado's X X X X>I had the manual with me and asked several pilots a few things about it. X>First of all, the instruments are modelled correct in the front seat. X>The crews were very surprised to recognize everything. Only the back- X>seat-model is not exactly, i.e. the dimensions are not correct. The weapon- X>package display, e.g. is to the lower left of the WSO. All were astonished X>that the various HUD modes were correct. X>All in all, DI has done a very good job! X X>I gather they they got almost all this stuff from an RAF X>instrument-flying / weapons system simulator.At the Luftwaffe the normal X>travelling speed is 420 knts and attack speed is 540 knts. X XApparently this was the official doctrine in the RAF as well. However, Xin a TC documentary a crew (captured in Desert Storm) mentioned that Xonce they got going for real they said ``b****r saving fuel'' (or Xsomething to that effect) an accelerated to 500+ knots for pretty much Xmost of their time over enemy territory :-) X X>I asked the RAF pilot about standard AA-tactics and he said that the ADV X>was designed for BVR-kills. A dog-fight would be a bad idea with the X>Tornado because of it's weight and miserable turn-rate, compared to other X>fighters. X XIt makes you wonder the political pressures the RAF was put under to Xaccept Tornado F3 as their sole front-line fighter. I can imagine Xthe air-force folk wanting F3 as a large part of a mix, but no agile Xfighters at all (until EFA) can't have been their taste. Mind you, Xthe F3 was, apparently, a big advance over the Phantom. An air-force Xfriend quoted an early F3 pilot's response to a query from a colleague still Xflying F4K as: ``I could fly it right up your a**e, and there's nothing Xyou could do about it''. I can only assume they reckoned the USAF Xand the low-countries F16's would do all the messy stuff further Xeast. X XI can't imagine what the politicos though the Luftwaffe was supposed to Xdo with its Phantoms in the old cold-war days! Maybe act as the X``bait'' in drag maneuvres co-ordinate with USAF F15's? :-) :-( X X>The pilot has a priority button with which he can override the WSO weapon- X>management. If he presses that button the AA weapons are automaticly armed, X>i.e. the sidewinders and the guns. X XThis has been implemented in the 1.0b patch I will be uploading Xas-soon-as-I-can-get-a-certain-person-at-DI-to-remember-to-send-me-a-floppy. X(It is already available on the CIX system, but no-one with Internet Xaccesss seems to have an account on this system :-( ) X X1.0a has been on CIX for ages. X XSigh, X Andrew X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 45 ]] END-of-issue045 echo x - issue046 sed 's/^X//' >issue046 << 'END-of-issue046' XTo: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I46 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 46 X Wed Sep 15 06:27:42 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Real Tornado's knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X Real Tornado's Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Re: Upgrades Neal Smith X Re: Upgrades stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Re: Mig 29 vs F15 III att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net X Tornado patch found on CIX Tris Love I can't imagine what the politicos though the Luftwaffe was supposed to X> do with its Phantoms in the old cold-war days! Maybe act as the X> ``bait'' in drag maneuvres co-ordinate with USAF F15's? :-) :-( X XAlthough the F4 is an aging aircraft, it still does its job well. I Xbelieve they are mostly used as Wild Weasels now days. The RF-4C was Xused in Desert Storm for recon work and is still a great platform for Xdoing that. I can't remember if it was the 12th or 91st TRS out of XBergstrom AFB here in town (Austin, TX) that went. X XMy first choice for air superiority wouldn't be Phantoms, but they can Xruin your day as well as any other MRM equipped aircraft. Basically, Xyou use them at what they are best for doing and right now that seems Xto be air defense suppression. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Real Tornado's X X XHi Jim, X X>Although the F4 is an aging aircraft, it still does its job well. I X>believe they are mostly used as Wild Weasels now days. The RF-4C was X>used in Desert Storm for recon work and is still a great platform for X>doing that. I can't remember if it was the 12th or 91st TRS out of X>Bergstrom AFB here in town (Austin, TX) that went. X XBelieve it or not I'm actually quite a fan of ``Big Ugly'' (must have Xbeen the thrill I always used to get when I was kid when they blasted Xoverhead at ``more than 400ft - honest''). My tongue was therefore some Xway in my cheek. However, the problem with the Luftwaffe's F4E's was Xthat they were still expected to do a first-line anti-air job in the late X80's with barely any improvement over their original early 70's Xavionics/weapons fit. The recce and wild-easel roles are, by contrast, Xmuch better suited to the air-frame and the (Wild Weasels at least) have Xhad massively upgraded avionics and weapons system retro-fitted. X XComments almost as rude as mine were made publicly by German air force Xsources when the government started cutting back the ``ICE'' in-service XCombat Enhancement retrofit and threatening the cancellation of XEurofighter. X XThe point about MRM capability, however, is well-taken. Facing Xbad numerical disadvantage I suspect I'd be a happier man sitting Xin a nice robust two-engine Phantom hitting and running at BVR Xthan sitting in a Dutch F16A and forced to go into knife-fighting range! X X XAndrew X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Neal Smith XSubject: Re: Upgrades X X> X> This has been implemented in the 1.0b patch I will be uploading X> as-soon-as-I-can-get-a-certain-person-at-DI-to-remember-to-send-me-a-floppy. X> (It is already available on the CIX system, but no-one with Internet X> accesss seems to have an account on this system :-( ) X> X> 1.0a has been on CIX for ages. X> X X Great stuff guys! X X Andrew, X What about those of us who have no FTP access at all? I asked Xabout how to get disk versions of the patches, but haven't received Xan answer yet. X X There is no doc, in the game, on how to get patches, but I've Xheard/been told that you can get them via disk. X X XThanks, XNeal Smith Xsasrns@unx.sas.com X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Upgrades X XHi Neal, X X X----- Begin Included Message ----- X X>From digint@cix.compulink.co.uk Thu Aug 26 12:20:53 1993 XDate: Thu, 26 Aug 93 11:12 GMT0BST-1 XFrom: Digital Integration Limited XSubject: Re: Tornado: Patch XTo: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de XCc: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk XReply-To: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk XContent-Length: 301 X X XThe patch disk is now available. (v1.0a) X XWe have not got any uuencode software so it would be difficult to send it via Xemail. X XAlternatively, give us a voice call, and we will upgrade for a nominal Xcharge. X X(unless you can supply the uuencode software ???) X X - Robin X X>>>MATRIX version 1.23a X X X----- End Included Message ----- X XSince somebody from DI should have sent Andrew a floppy I didn't order it for X"a nominal charge". XI personally don't like to pay for patches. If You remeber, all patches for XFalcon3 made it's way to onion very fast. XJeff, did SH sent them to You directly? X XWaiting, XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Re: Mig 29 vs F15 III X XScot (MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU) writes: X X>Was sitting around thinking, I know the F15 Air Variant has hydraulic X>controls and is not fly by wire. X XNo F15 is FBW. As a side note, I believe every modern fighter uses Xhydraulics to move the control surfaces (though I've read the A-10 has Xa non-hydraulic backup system), so using the word "hydraulic" is not really Xappropriate for differentiating non-FBW controls (I'm as guilty of Xdoing this as the next guy). Maybe "mechanically linked controls" would Xbe more accurate. Sorry for digressing. X X>My reason for asking is that the one good thing I have heard about F15III, X>I have it, is that the flight model is very good for the F15. X XIt has some flaws, but has been said to model weight, drag, and altitude Xeffects well for routine flying. From what I can tell as a non-pilot, Xit also seems fairly realistic in landing configuration, far better than XF3 or MiG-29 in that regime. X X>Critisms include the you vs the world feel of the game, super weapons, X>and dumb AI. X XAnd simplistic terrain, radar that can see through mountains, 20+ mile Xvisibility, lack of a cohesive campaign structure. I still like the Xgame, believe it or not! X X>None-the-less I have seen several comments that say the X>flight model of the F15 stands out. Now my question is, if the X>flight model of the F15E is commendable, and it is hydraulic, why is X>is so easy to fly in comparison to the Mig29? X XI think there are four primary reasons for this. X X1) The MiG-29's roll inertia, which causes massive roll overshoots when X you let go of the stick after applying ailerons, is way overdone according X to Stuart who's the only one of us in a position to know. X2) F15III does not model accelerated stalls. I THINK MiG-29 does. X3) F15III does not model spins, I'm pretty sure. X4) F15III does not model the rubberbanding effect of suddenly easing off X the controls while at high AOA or during a big sideslip. Seems realistic X enough to me, but what do I know. How would you rate this aspect of X MiG-29's flight model, Stuart? X X>I would think the X>conformable fuel tanks and extra wieght would not siginificantly dampen X>the flight characteristicas when unloaded. X XEspecially with the new more powerful F110 engines. X X>Is anyone else getting thoroughly fed up with the Hi Fi radar in Mig 29? X>My mind cannot work that fast to fly the aircraft AND frantically X>check radar range, lock, IFF, break, X, lock, IFF, set range, infrared.. X>etc. And I am using the WCS to boot. X XMy hand is raised. I wonder if the real MiG's radar is that hard to use. XAlthough it is tough to switch between targets when going for BVR shots, XI've rendered the point moot by always firing both my Alamos at the same Xtarget a few seconds apart. Why? At least that way I get SOME kills. XIf I fire both at different targets, I almost always just end up with Xtwo misses. X X>All in all Mig 29 wins in realism (?) and systems. X XCompared to F15III? I'll agree on overall realism, but not on systems Xmodeling. Only Tornado, which I haven't played, matches or betters XF15III in this regard, IMO. X X>More than once I have booted the game, flew half a mission, then just left X>saying to heck with it and jump over to F3. X XI used to do that with F3 and it's stupid hi-fi/complex transitions. For Xall its flaws, I actually find MiG-29 more playable than F3 for just this Xreason. X X>On another note, I saw a program where the test pilot of the YF-22 advanced X>fighter said it was easier to fly than a Cessna. X XI believe the YF-22 is FBW. X X>When designing a plane I X>can see the logic of taking the majority of the flyin off the pilots hands X>so he con concentrate on SA, increasing complex weapons and ECM. I guess X>the Soviets (as modeled by SH) haven't learned this yet. X XTrue. Isn't there a FBW version of the MiG-29 available? I remember reading Xsomething about it, but maybe it's still in development. Would seem to be Xkind of a waste since relaxed static stability concepts were not incorporated Xinto the initial design. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Tris Love XSubject: Tornado patch found on CIX X XHi fellow Tornado fans, X XI have located the Tornado 1.0b patch on the CIX system here in the UK. XI will download it today and upload to onion.rain.com. X X**[Jeff, which directory for Tornado stuff?]** X X+---------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ X| Tris Love | Internet : love@manadon.ac.uk | X| RNEC | CIX : tlove@cix.clink.co.uk | X| Plymouth | CIS : 100023,2613 | X| United Kingdom | Voice : (+44) 752 553740 Ext 81283| X+---------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Tornado patch 1.0b available X X X XDear all, X Xa kind person at DI (many thanks Kevin!) has just sent me a copy of the Xlatest revision 1.0b patch for the ``EUROPEAN'' release of Tornado. I Xhave uploaded this to onion.rain.com in X X/pub/hitech-sim/patches X ------- Xeuro-torn-1.0b.zip with the readme as readeuro-torn-1.0b.txt X XPLEASE NOTE: This patch WILL NOT WORK with the North American version of XTornado! This (the US) version uses a different copy-protection scheme X(somek stuff requiring you to answer questions) and thus different Xbinaries. Spectrum Holobyte will distribute patches for the US version. XI've appended the readme file for information... X XIf you're in doubt as to which version you have: the European version Xcomes with the installation notes in multiple languages and doesn't Xhave some stuff about ``The Allies strike fighter'' across the front Xof the box. X X Andrew X X X TORNADO REVISION 1.0b - 09.09.1993 X ================================== X X (c) 1993 Digital Integration Ltd X ================================ X X IMPORTANT X ========= X X THIS REVISION DISK CANNOT BE USED WITH THE VERSION OF TORNADO X DISTRIBUTED BY SPECTRUM HOLOBYTE, CONTACT SH FOR AN UPDATE IF X YOU HAVE THE AMERICAN VERSION. X X This revision disk should only be used with Tornado versions X 1.0 or 1.0a released by Digital Integration Ltd. X X XTo install this revision:- X X1) Copy TORNAD1B.ZIP into your TORNADO directory. X X2) Use PKUNZIP (v2.04) to unzip TORNAD1B.ZIP. X X pkunzip -d TORNAD1B.ZIP X X3) Run UPDATE.EXE to modify some files. X X update X X XThis revision addresses the following issues:- X X 1) Mission save in campaign - it is now possible to save flight plans during X campaigns. X X 2) US Robotics 14400 Modem - the program now caters for the non-Hayes X compatible codes used by this modem. X X 3) ThrustMaster rudder pedal support. X X 4) Promotion bug fixed. X X 5) SAM effectiveness - SAMs are no longer always lethal but you will sustain X more damage. X X 6) Quit game - you no longer have to be stationary to end a mission. It is X now ok to end a mission when you have landed and your ground speed is X below 30kts. X X 7) Explore mode - now fixed to daytime. X X 8) Air victories bug fixed in log. X X 9) SAM launcher changed from ZRK-Romb to ZREK-BD Strela 10. X X10) Enemy aircraft barrel roll phenomenon fixed. X X11) Drone view displays aircraft designation. IDS and ADV Tornados X display abbreviated callsign (A)lpha, (B)ravo etc. X X10) Digital fuel readout on instrument panel. X X11) When the air radar is switched on it automatically selects range X with respect to selected air weapon. X X12) Dogfight mode. If no weapons are armed, then hitting fire will X automatically arm air-to-air weapons and switch on the air radar. X X13) RWR gives audible warning when incoming missiles are very close. X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Juan A. Hermoso" XSubject: Tornado CAP missions X XHi!, X XI have just finished my first level 1 campaign and I would like to pose some Xquestions regarding CAP missions to all of you: X X1 - How is that I have 0 air to air victories in my log record when I know X positively that I have killed a lot (well, maybe not so many :-) ) of X aircrafts during my CAP missions? X X2 - How many planes/fighters do you have to knock down to get a CAP destroyed X message in the debriefing screen? During one CAP mission I downed two MIG31, X one SU27 and a MIG29 (and, of course, one or two non-fighter planes) and X still got no message. X X3 - Have you noticed that if you are able to dodge all the missiles fired X by a fighter and then you rush to your base, then the fighter gets at your X six firing cannon rounds while barrel-rolling?. X XAs you could imagine, my worse problems arise when dealing with CAP missions. If Xonly the enemy planes were kind enough to fire only one missile at a time! :-). X XAnyway, after hours of non-logged practising, I find pretty easy to dodge enemy Xair-to-air missiles (no trick here, just chaff and maneuvering!). The Xproblem is that if I fail to get a long range hit on a fighter I almost never Xget a hit (or even a lock) dogfighting :-). X XOh!, yes, one last thing, do you know where are those FUC***G patches that will Xallow us to exit the program and pretend we can stay away from the computer for Xmore than a few minutes :-) without losing our time-consuming-to-plot level two Xflight plans?. X XStay low!, this way is easier to spot hidden patches :-). X XJuan A. Hermoso X X------------------------------- X XFrom: kbl@linus.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM XSubject: Tornado questions and 0.02$ X XHi everybody. X XExcuse me for a couple of stupid questions. Like everybody I'm quite anxious Xto get the pathes for Tornado. The A patch is supposedly uploaded to a place Xcalled CIX. X X What is CIX? X Does anybody at DI read news or snoop around on the Internet? X They advertized Tornado to work with the SB which is does'nt. X Should'nt they take 2 minutes to upload the patches? X XPlus: X X Has anyone seen ANYTHING in Explore Target after a mission? X The world seems deserted and the craters have gone X (or I'm doing something wrong :( X XAnother 0.02$ on Tornado (I guess that makes it 0.04$ :-): X X Again. WE WANT TIME COMPRESSION. X We want to be able to rotate views vertically (like F3 & SC) X We want a ground/air target view like in F3 & SC!!! X We want to be able to move around a view once its fixed (like Explore mode). X X (Can't shout any louder :-) X No, honestly. They obviously have a general viewpoint routine. Why can't X they be a little more flexible in placing and moving this viewpoint. If you X use F3 or F4 all you get is a 1 second shot turning your plane into X a pixel. It would be nice to place viewpoints using the map (to watch the X "action"). In addition it is quite important to be able to rotate the camera X vertically. I know that the possibilities are many. But contrary to the X oppinion of the manual, I find the views quite limited compared to F3 & SC. X It is also true that in "real world" situations pilots don't have views. But X I feel that a flight simulator must compensate for the limitations of flying X "by computer screen" (lousy resolution, no gravity information, no directional X information from the sound etc.). Your situational awareness must be improved X in some other way and we don't have many options apart from more views. And X views makes it more FUN :-) X X Until the next time. X ICEMAN X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 46 ]] END-of-issue046 echo x - issue047 sed 's/^X//' >issue047 << 'END-of-issue047' XTo: bounces (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I47 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 47 X Fri Sep 17 08:06:48 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X F15 vs Mig 29 MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X Tornado: thanx for the patch kbl@linus.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM X Tornado patch!! Wilson Chiu Scot (MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU) writes: X X>>Was sitting around thinking, I know the F15 Air Variant has hydraulic X>>controls and is not fly by wire. X X>No F15 is FBW. As a side note, I believe every modern fighter uses X>hydraulics to move the control surfaces (though I've read the A-10 has X>a non-hydraulic backup system), so using the word "hydraulic" is not really X>appropriate for differentiating non-FBW controls (I'm as guilty of X>doing this as the next guy). Maybe "mechanically linked controls" would X>be more accurate. Sorry for digressing. X XRegarding the digression :-), I suppose I meant by FBW, the computer controls Xthe movements of the plane. Like in the F16 where the computer will over ride Xthe commands of the pilot if it determines the manuever will excede its X9g limit. I heard from a '15 pilot that he can pull whatever he feels necessary Xin a given situation (12 g's if needed, etc). So I infer from your Xinsites that the Eagle has electronic sending equipment, and hydraulically Xactuated control surfaces. But does the computer interpret the pilots Xcommands or just directly forward the commands to the actuator? X X>>My reason for asking is that the one good thing I have heard about F15III, X>>I have it, is that the flight model is very good for the F15. X X>{stuff removed} X>it also seems fairly realistic in landing configuration, far better than X>F3 or MiG-29 in that regime. X XFor some reason I just can't get the hang of landings in F3 (forget XMig 29! ;-) I tend to attribute this to bad SA. The feel of speed and Xaltitude for some reason ellude me to the extent I just can't pull a Xdecent race track approach. The best I can do is set my final waypoints Xso the flight in is a straight shot. F15III gives a much better feel, and Xwith the less twictchy controls, I can pull off very nice flared landings. X X X>>Critisms include the you vs the world feel of the game, super weapons, X>>and dumb AI. X X>And simplistic terrain, radar that can see through mountains, 20+ mile X>visibility, lack of a cohesive campaign structure. I still like the X>game, believe it or not! X X XA shining feature also is the comms, though jerkier than a caffeine addicts Xtug of war, they are stable and entertaining. We had one mission where we Xhad to take out the crossed swords and another ground target. Feeling Xcocky I went to altitude right over the swords with Laser bombs. XThe other fella broke for the other target. Once over the target I Xlocked and dropped as SAMs lit me up like a Xmas tree. I had to maintain Xlock till the bombs hit. ECM and Chf & flres took care of the SAMs Xtill the bombs hit. I dove for the deck and got nailed by two SAM's Xfor which I lost an engine and other stuff. Meanwhile my wingy got Xjumped by enemy Iterceptors. While he was dodging them I snuck Xin and took one out with a Sparrow. He got the other, then hit his Xtarget. We fought our way back and both landed heavily Xdamaged. All through the fracas we were b*&ching through the X"intercom" with updates. All in all probably one of the most intense Xcomms missions I have had on any sim out there. X X X[Flight model insites removed] X X X>>Is anyone else getting thoroughly fed up with the Hi Fi radar in Mig 29? X>>My mind cannot work that fast to fly the aircraft AND frantically X>>check radar range, lock, IFF, break, X, lock, IFF, set range, infrared.. X>>etc. And I am using the WCS to boot. X X>My hand is raised. I wonder if the real MiG's radar is that hard to use. X>Although it is tough to switch between targets when going for BVR shots, X>I've rendered the point moot by always firing both my Alamos at the same X>target a few seconds apart. Why? At least that way I get SOME kills. X>If I fire both at different targets, I almost always just end up with X>two misses. X XIt seems my wingies get better results than I from the same place and distance Xand weapon. I know others have done tests that suggest this is not a for Xcertain reality, but the computer can sure fight better than I. The XECM of other flights can break my signal rather easily. I like the Xinfrared seeker on the Fulcrum, once in 10 mi, it locks onto whatever, Xwith the helmet mounted monocle the heat seeker wars has gotten Xa little better in my favor ;-) X X X>>All in all Mig 29 wins in realism (?) and systems. X X>Compared to F15III? I'll agree on overall realism, but not on systems X>modeling. Only Tornado, which I haven't played, matches or betters X>F15III in this regard, IMO. X XI did not mean this as a comparison. Just that it is a winner of a Xprogram in terms of system and flight complexities. Not taking Xanything away from other "winner" programs. I don't think anything will Xtouch Tornado for systems for a longgggg time. X X X>>More than once I have booted the game, flew half a mission, then just left X>>saying to heck with it and jump over to F3. X X>I used to do that with F3 and it's stupid hi-fi/complex transitions. For X>all its flaws, I actually find MiG-29 more playable than F3 for just this X>reason. X XI flew many hours of Mig over this past weekend (and drank many beers, ah for Xthat day off!) I started to actually be able to control it in the Average Xflight model to the extent I could concentrate on SA and the like. I think Xthe newly installed pots in the ol' FCS had alot to do with this. My mind Xis not fast enough presently to tackle realistic. I am enjoying it Xalot more with the easier controls, but still see inconsistencies Xnoted before in the joystick routines. And my coolie hat STILL Xno work 'cept for 1 view. (F3 302 and Mig 29 only sims that it no Xwork in :-( Well I'll keep plugging away to fix it. X X X>>On another note, I saw a program where the test pilot of the YF-22 advanced X>>fighter said it was easier to fly than a Cessna. X X>I believe the YF-22 is FBW. X XAnything that looks like that I would think to be so unstable that FBW Xis mandatory. Also, the Cessna is a good trainer, but it is easy to Xget into bad situations with. I am not a pilot, but in bar room discussions Xwith pilots, they tell of over stability problems (??) Like stalling the Xcraft, have the CG back (becasue of a dog in the back seat in this Xcase), and going into a spin. If the rudder is hit in the wrong Xdirection (opposite spin direction) you can end up in a nasty flat Xspin with no power to recover and basically land on your wheels from a free fall Xof your last sustained altitude. I am WAY out of my area here so forgive Xglaring errors! X X{Stuff removed} X X>Rob X>opus@ihlpf.att.com X X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: kbl@linus.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM XSubject: Tornado: thanx for the patch X XHello everybody. X XTHANX FOR THE 1.0B PATCH!!! :) XThe SAMs are a lot less lethal. It looks like they implemented it Xby making the missiles explode prematurely 75% of the time. X XBy the way I have an entertaining way of observing the SAMs X(which you probably already tried :) X X Select "instant action", where you cant die. X Fly to a SAM site and hit F3 when you are close to X and slightly above the launcher(s). X Now manouver the Tornado from this remote view (takes X a little practise, especially when its just a pixel). X XBy now you should be covered with SAMs. You will see a flash Xwhen they get launched. Try different tactics and different Xtimes to drop flares or chaff (yes - it works). The AAA Xlooks pretty impressing too. If you get lost just hit F3 or Xdo a little F1. X X Have fun. X ICEMAN X XPS: Does patch 1.0a, which I dont have, fix anything X patch 1.0b does'nt? X XPPS: If anybody wants me to mail the patch in uuencoded X format just send me a message (> 500K before uuencode) X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Wilson Chiu XSubject: Tornado patch!! X XHi all, X XYes!! The Tornado patc is here...many thanks to Andrew@Oxford for Xgetting it from DI and Tris@Plymouth for finding it on CIX. And Xmany thanks to Jeff for giving it a home - sorry about grinding Xonion.rain.com to a halt with my desperate attempts at anon log on to Xgrab the patch - I wasn't going to wait till when it was less Xbusier!! Just out Xof interest, how long have the A and this B patch been avaliable on XCIX? How are all those kids-next-door who bought Tornado going to get Xupgraded? Is DI going to send out patches on floppy? X XBack to the patch itself - that's better! Tried one of those Mission XImpossibles, as per usual, get to the airfield on time(ish), gets Xpainted by SAM radar, on comes ECM, chaff and ALARMs - managed to get Xabove the airfield, dispenses JP332 and wham - SAM hit and AAA hits. XBut wait! Instead of the `pan-around-while-your-tornado-crash-&-burn' Xscreen, I am still lokking out of the cockpit, with warning lights Xgoing off and panic - what do I do now?! After egressing out of the Xtarget area, poped back to the WSO's screen and see what te damage Xwas, hmmm, one of the engines is on fire, thrust reverser is gone and Xthe flaps don't work too well now. X XManaged to limp back to the airfield, tried to land and crashed. So I Xstill had to cancel the mission but I am happy about doing that this Xtime round! It was my fault I f**ked up the landing and fair enough. XMay be I would be crashed straight away if I got hit in real life when XI did, and some might say now the game is not as realistic with the Xless leathel SAMs - I don't care, I prefre being able to play the Xgame. X XAbout the SoundBlaster driver, is DI sure it's fixed? Engine sound Xgoes off every now and then when I change views and come back with Xdifferent sounds. But now I have fast warning beeps when missles are Xfired at me - that's new and good too! X XCheers, X XWils X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Re: Tornado patch (Wils) X XHi Wils, X X> [...] many thanks to Andrew@Oxford for getting it from DI and Tris@Plymouth X> for finding it on CIX. XDitto!!! X X> [... about damage cause by a SAM:] one of the engines is on fire, [...] X XHow did You handle this? Although I read the manual at least twice I didn't find Xanything about a key to shutdown one of the engines (I think that is what You Xshould do in that case). There is also nothing on the quick-reference card about Xsuch key. XBut there is that Simulator mission where You must land with only one engine. XAm I going to become blind or have I missed something? X XAny advice is welcome, XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jeff@onion.rain.com XSubject: Re: Tornado patch!! X X XWilson Chiu wrote: X X>... sorry about grinding X>onion.rain.com to a halt with my desperate attempts at anon log on to X>grab the patch - I wasn't going to wait till when it was less X>busier!! ... X XWell, in that case I will be blocking your entire site from future Xaccess to the archives. The limit is there for a reason, to keep onion Xand my Internet link from overload. It's twits like you that cause Xsites to shutdown. X XPLEASE folks, if you want the archives to stay available, when you Xtry to anonymously login to onion.rain.com and get a message that says Xto wait 15 minutes, *WAIT AT LEAST 15 MINUTES BEFORE TRYING AGAIN* X XThis isn't the first abuse by far, but it is the first person to Xpublically brag about it. It won't be tollerated. X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: DI looking for suggestions X XThis was posted to Usenet - should interest readers of this list as well X(my reply follows): X X=== begin usenet posting === X XDear all, X XThe folk who developed Tornado (Digital Integration) are currently Xin the process of specifying their next flight simulation. XAs such, they would be very interested in suggestions or feedback Xfrom flight simulation enthusiasts on the net. The kind of thing Xthey are looking for is: X X X - What Aircraft (helicopters or fixed-wing) might you might like to X see done in a simulator emphasising authenticty? X X - How important for you would it be to support 640x480? X What if, as seems likely, this meant excluding non-localbus X machines and processors below (say) 33Mhz 486. X X - How much would you value shading and/or bit-mapping? X Would you be willing to trade resolution for the 15 or 16 bit X colour depth needed to do shading well? X X - How much do you value situational awareness (``padlock'') views? X Any suggestions as to how existing solutions might be made effective X and/or realistic? X X - Are you happy with the level of maneuvering AI in existing systems? X If not, what areas do you think most need attention? X X - How much would you value simulated command-and-control? For X example: simulated messages from X other allied forces, airbourne or ground-based radar, radar-off X interceptions guided by a simulated ground-control? X X - What improvements would you like to see in systems simulation? X For example: radar modelling, or weapons systems? X X - What things would you like to see in the warfare-simulation X aspects of campaign gameplay? X X - How much would you value support for two (or more) player X allied play in campaigns? What about multi-player adversarial play? X What about pilot/back-seater? X X XIf you've got any ideas send them (preferably) to me and I'll try and Xstrip out replication and and pass them on to DI. You can also email to XDI direct, but they seem keen to avoid having their single (shared) Xemail address being clogged with lots of individual responses. X X X Andrew X X X X- -- X Andrew Stevens INTERNET: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Programmming Research Group PGP pulic key - mail or finger X 11 Keble Road, Oxford, England as@opal.comlab.ox.ac.uk X OX1 3QD +44 0865 272563 X X X=== my reply to Mr. Stevens === X XThanks a lot for offering to collect this and send it to DI. Consider Xposting your summary to the net - I think it will generate lots of Xinteresting discussion. X XIn article <1993Sep16.111241.327@opal.comlab.ox.ac.uk> you write: X> X>Dear all, X> X>The folk who developed Tornado (Digital Integration) are currently X>in the process of specifying their next flight simulation. X>As such, they would be very interested in suggestions or feedback X>from flight simulation enthusiasts on the net. The kind of thing X>they are looking for is: X> X> X> - What Aircraft (helicopters or fixed-wing) might you might like to X> see done in a simulator emphasising authenticty? X XBattle of Britain, Korea, and Vietnam planes. None has been treated by a Xsim where authenticity was the prime goal. X X> - How important for you would it be to support 640x480? X> What if, as seems likely, this meant excluding non-localbus X> machines and processors below (say) 33Mhz 486. X XI find addes resolution only adds to the processor load without adding to the Xsimulation/play value. Anything requiring local bus will make it impossible Xfor me to buy the simn. X X> - How much would you value shading and/or bit-mapping? X> Would you be willing to trade resolution for the 15 or 16 bit X> colour depth needed to do shading well? X XI want functional graphics, not pretty pictures. Shading only makes it Xpretty, it doesn't add to the play value. Resolution is needed more for Xdetailed instruments that for enhanced out-the-window views. X X> - How much do you value situational awareness (``padlock'') views? X> Any suggestions as to how existing solutions might be made effective X> and/or realistic? X XUse the SVGA Air Warrior view key layout and button behavior - it is by far Xthe best solution for the SA problem (padlock makes me ill). X X> - Are you happy with the level of maneuvering AI in existing systems? X> If not, what areas do you think most need attention? X XGenerally, I'm satisfied, _but_ the game should allow for surprise, which, Xfrom my reading, seems to be a key element of air combat. Most sims. put Xyou in the action with too much knowledge of the situation- the player should Xhave the chance to be surprised and to surprise the enemy. Also, Xcomputer pilots should show various levels of aggresiveness. Too often the Xcomputer-piloted squadrons are willing to die to the last man. X X> - How much would you value simulated command-and-control? For X> example: simulated messages from X> other allied forces, airbourne or ground-based radar, radar-off X> interceptions guided by a simulated ground-control? X XAnything that adds to the feeling that "there's a world out there" is great. XThis is probably the best feature of Falcon 3.0. I think ground controlled Xintercept missions (Battle of Britain and North Vietnamese air force especially) Xwould be an interesting innovation. X X> - What improvements would you like to see in systems simulation? X> For example: radar modelling, or weapons systems? X XI'd like to seem more accurate gunnery models (including the chance to change Xharmonization on WWII-era planes) and, especially, accurately modeled WWII-era Xgun and bomb sights. X X> - What things would you like to see in the warfare-simulation X> aspects of campaign gameplay? X XMission planning. I like to be able to assemble an entire strike using Xdifferent planes like you can do in Falcon 3.0 (or Harpoon, for that matter). X X> - How much would you value support for two (or more) player X> allied play in campaigns? What about multi-player adversarial play? X> What about pilot/back-seater? X XI don't want multi-player play at the expense of good AI and single player Xplay. X XI'd like to see multi-player co-operative/adversarial play implemented as Xfollows: each copy of the product is a fully-featured standalone game that Xhas the option of connecting to a server. The server is available separately X(maybe even free - it would promote sales of the game) that can run on Xa UNIX or OS/2 system or on a dedicated MSDOS PC. I'd be real interested Xin an F4 front/back seat simulation. I find programs that only let you Xplay one-on-one duels to be quite unrealistic. Any multi-player game should Xstill support computer allies and opponents - two lone planes just aren't Xsatisfying, even if they're both pilotted by humans. X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: solarin@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Paxton CHENG) XSubject: Tornado-Command X XDear fellow flyers, X X I have just finished my first command. The verdict? I lost. X X Why? Maybe it's because my supplies have dropped to 0. I really don't X know. It is a very devastating air campaign for both sides, and their X supply level was also just single figure. X X The fact is that I am playing the command that the enemy have to capture all X allied teritory in order to win ( according to what it states ) and from X day 1 I have NEVER lost an inch of soil. ( my territory held/ desired = 100 X always ). So, it just not fair to declare that I lose. :( X X Here's a brief description of the campaign: X On the very first 1 or 2 turns I knocked out all their EWR,comm nodes and X also killed a lot of their SAMs. They in turn destroyed a LOT of bridges and X roads but nothing else . X On day 4, for the allies: All EWR destroyed, 2 runways damaged, supply lines X almost nonexistant, everything else pretty much intact. X Performance = 100, supply = 0, forces = 70, morale = 30 X For the enemy: ALL EWR, comm nodes, power stations, NBC, scuds, C-cubed, X 3 airfields. Just about almost everything except the Battlefield targets. X They have just 2 SAMs and less than 5 AA left on the map. X Performance = 55, supply = 7, forces = 54, morale = 70 X X Do I really deserve to lose? BTW I completed every mission except the first X one ( I spent all my time killing SAMs hoping this will pay off ) X X Another question about the patch: X I have got it but have not applied it yet. It seems to make SAM hit not X 100% lethal. May I ask how much chance of getting a SAM hit and still X able to fly in a real Tornado? I hope not too much playability is sacrificed X for realism. If you want playability, just add time compression. If our X plane starts to have 'hit points' it will be like Strike Eagle II. X ( Where 10+ SAMs can hit you and you can still be flying ). X X For those who complained about getting hit and have to replay the mission: X I used to be one of you, but I jumped straight into a level 2 campaign X and finished it ( getting killed many times, of course ). Once you get X promoted to WC, you can play your own command and nobody will ever ordered X to bomb something in the midst of 10 SAMs and believe me, flying your X own planned mission increases your survival rate greatly. I used to take X about 2.5+ tries to complete a typical level 2 campaign mission, but it X takes only about 1.2 tries on average to complete one of my command mission. X Of course, if you don't have to patience to go through the level 2 campaign, X you can always use deFault, although it DOES spoils all the fun, right? X X On still another note about someone mentioning wingmen nevers seems to be X able to bomb runways: My wingmen did once in my 'command' but you have X to send in a flight of at least 4 and there should be at most 1 SAM X in the target area. Otherwise they will just waste their JP233. Bombing X runways myself seems to be MUCH MUCH more efficient :) X X "What! a 35 knots crosswind landing? Forget it. I am going to another X airfield" :) X X P.S. Does the patch save the wind directions also? In ver 1.0 if you X don't like the wind you can always restart the game and you will get X something different. X X Wing Commander "MiG-Killer" Paxton X ( Under the command of the stupid Group Captain deFault ) X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 47 ]] END-of-issue047 echo x - issue048 sed 's/^X//' >issue048 << 'END-of-issue048' XFrom: bounces (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XTo: bounces (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XX-Send-Submissions-To: hitech-sim (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I48 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 48 X Sat Sep 18 21:36:59 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Notes on Command Level dvallis@SWAMP.ALT.NS.CA (Darrin Val X My suggestion on a new sim solarin@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Paxton X Re: Tornado patches Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X MiG21 Sim rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X SC disk 6 anyone? jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: dvallis@SWAMP.ALT.NS.CA (Darrin Vallis) XSubject: Notes on Command Level X XGreetings to the List: X X Finally, after crushing the forces of darkness in a level two Xcampaign, my pilot was promoted to the illustrious rank of Wing Commander. XNow for the REAL thing...Command Level. X Hey, how hard could it be? After all, the bad guys got stomped in Xthat level two scenario. Destroy a few command posts and they should fall Xgrovelling to their knees. ;! X Well gang, the reality is that Command Level is DIFFICULT! The Xmission planning goes ok, with all that practice from single missions, but Xdeciding just what to hit in your long range plan becomes a thing of horror. X After three days of scenario time, my morale is down to 12%. Even Xthough the allies strike proficiency is 90% compared to the enemy's 55%, I'm Xjust getting pounded! They give as good as they get and I have this bad Xfeeling that the next round will be H'Asta La Vista Baby for the good guys. XNo EWR left, a crippled comms system, roads bombed all to heck....Hmmmmm. X Just some things I've noticed in my long slide to ignomious defeat: X X1) Wingmen are terrible at JP233 runs. They don't even seem to release X the weapons over their assigned targets. X X2) SAM supression missions for wingmen rarely score more than a couple of X ROMB hits. X X3) It's a real trap that wingmen on strike missions can't carry bombs AND X ALARMS, with some reasonable smarts to use them both ;[ X X4) I hate being run down by wingmen who come SCREAMING up from behind! X Hey SH, how about a proximity alarm or something like that. X X5) Developing some strategy for winning a Command Level scenario is going X to take some REAL pondering. I tried to take out their main multirole X airbase and surrounding depots, choke points etc, but that didn't seem X to be enough. Any ideas? X X X Darrin Vallis X X------------------------------- X XFrom: solarin@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Paxton CHENG) XSubject: My suggestion on a new sim X XDear netters, X X Now this is my dream sim: X A carrier air group simulation. X ( Hope SH or DI can implement it ) X You are the commanding officer of a US carrier. You design/plan/fly your own missions, X mixing aircraft types of the navy. Tornado is already very close to this, just replace X the ADV with F14, IDS with F18 and Intruder. Then add carrier landings! whew! X X I suggest modelling three aircrafts: Tomcat, Hornet, Intruder. X Forget about the sub-hunting or jamming aircrafts, since they are quite boring on missions. X X I heard that MPS is doing a F14 sim, but in my opinion, a straight F14 sim is BORING, X because there is only dogfight and firing Phoenixs at hapless bombers. But I really want X to fly this thing. It's my favourite aircraft. :) X X I think SH's F18 will be close to this, but since it have to be back-compatible with F3, X it will have some limitations. X X Ah.. forget about Jetfighter II, maybe III? X X Now, If there is a sim with the 3 planes, carriers, the mission planning of Tornado, X the dynamic world and flight model of falcon, and maybe the control of all the aircrafts on X one carrier as in Harpoon....that will be excellent. X X I do not prefer going to higher resolution or better colours ( F3 seems fine ). No X matter how much more horsepower your machine have got, it is much better spent on X AI and flight modelling. X XPaxton "MiG-Killer" Cheng X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado patches X X X>PS: Does patch 1.0a, which I dont have, fix anything X patch 1.0b does'nt? X XNo the patches simply update the game to the latest release standard. X1.0a has a lot less in it than 1.0b. X XAlso, in reply to another query, the 1.0b does NOT (and is not intended to) Xfix the soundblaster bug. This will be fixed real-soon-now in the 1.0c Xrelease (the delay is due to the considerably more extensive debugging Xand coding required). X X X Andrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: MiG21 Sim X XI saw this ad in "Trade-A-Plane". If you're bored with "Tornado", it might Xbe just the ticket: X XRUSSIAN MIG21 FLIGHT simulator, TT2500 hrs., like Xnew, motion platform new. Visual system. Full instructor Xboard with plotter and computer. Many xtras. Full Xdocumentation. Maint. personnel for on site installation Xavail. Price FOB Germany. Any offer accepted XFAX: +49-40 5000892, phone: +49-40 5254456 X XI'd make an offer, but I don't think I have room to put up the on site Xinstallation personnel. Wonder if they'd take a copy of "Their Finest XHour" in trade? X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jeff@neon.rain.com XSubject: SC disk 6 anyone? X X XMy Strike Commander disk 6 is bad (loads of bad sectors in the last 1/3rd Xof the disk. Does anyone else have Sc, and willing to ftp/email the f1.06 X(something like that) file to me? I don't want to wait for Origin. :-) X XYes, I own strike commander. Feel free to ask me a question from the Xmanual if you want. X XThanks in advance, X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 48 ]] END-of-issue048 echo x - issue049 sed 's/^X//' >issue049 << 'END-of-issue049' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I49 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 49 X Mon Sep 20 06:43:45 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: F15 vs Mig 29 att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net X Ignored By S.H.? dvallis@SWAMP.ALT.NS.CA (Darrin Val X RE:Ignored by SH MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Re: F15 vs Mig 29 X XMORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU (Scott Morgan) writes: X X>Rob replies X>>No F15 is FBW. X XI was completely mistaken. The F-15E is FBW according to an Xauthoritative source. Someday I'll learn to clearly differentiate Xopinions from things I know to be true (and which may be wrong anyway!). X X>I suppose I meant by FBW, the computer controls X>the movements of the plane. [...] But does the computer interpret the pilots X>commands or just directly forward the commands to the actuator? X XOnce I was informed of my error, I wondered exactly the same thing. X X>For some reason I just can't get the hang of landings in F3 (forget X>Mig 29! ;-) I tend to attribute this to bad SA. X XNo, the flight model at landing speeds SUCKS in SH's sims. X X>The feel of speed and X>altitude for some reason ellude me to the extent I just can't pull a X>decent race track approach. X XI don't bother. As the Tornado manual mentions, such approaches are Xunrealistically difficult since you can't look around too well in a sim. X X>The best I can do is set my final waypoints X>so the flight in is a straight shot. F15III gives a much better feel, and X>with the less twictchy controls, I can pull off very nice flared landings. X XF15III used to be my favorite sim for landings. In F3 or MiG-29 I can Xpretty much slam the plane down any which way and still get a successful Xlanding. It looks bad, and it feels bad, but it works every time. F15III's Xlooked a lot better, but are pretty easy. Now that I'm learning how to Xfly in Tornado, I've got a new favorite. IMuninformedO, it has the best Xlanding modeling of all comparable combat sims. It takes factors in Xaircraft configuration and weight very well, and even accounts for the Xfact that a heavy plane must land more gently to prevent the landing gear Xfrom collapsing. It's great fun trying deadstick landings and ones Xwith the wings fully swept using full manual control. Even did a couple Xof belly landings--when forgot to lower the gear! :^) X X[F15III] X>A shining feature also is the comms, though jerkier than a caffeine addicts X>tug of war, they are stable and entertaining. X X[great war story deleted] X XThe fatal flaw of this game is that it can be beaten. Except for those Xcampaigns where you get spike...spike mud before you get a chance to Xdo anything about it, the missions become quite routine. I never see any Xinterceptors scramble unless I want them to. X X>I like the X>infrared seeker on the Fulcrum, once in 10 mi, it locks onto whatever, X>with the helmet mounted monocle the heat seeker wars has gotten X>a little better in my favor ;-) X XBy the way, I figured out how to get the IRST to lock onto the plane Xyou're padlocked on. Keep hitting "x" and eventually the IRST will cycle Xto it. X X[Systems modeling] X>>Only Tornado, which I haven't played, matches or betters X>>F15III in this regard, IMO. X> X>I don't think anything will touch Tornado for systems for a longgggg time. X XI haven't touched this part of Tornado yet (big manual!), but I think XI'll miss F15III's high resolution radar maps. This is not to say that XTornado is not superior overall, however. X X[Inherently nstable FBW planes] X>I am not a pilot, but in bar room discussions X>with pilots, they tell of over stability problems (??) Like stalling the X>craft, have the CG back (because of a dog in the back seat in this X>case), and going into a spin. If the rudder is hit in the wrong X>direction (opposite spin direction) you can end up in a nasty flat X>spin with no power to recover X XI've heard that when the CG is behind the CL (center of lift), a plane Xwill tend to tumble rather than spin. I almost positive this was true of Xthe P-39 Airacobra. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: dvallis@SWAMP.ALT.NS.CA (Darrin Vallis) XSubject: Ignored By S.H.? X X Just a quick thought.... X X Am I the only person in North America who paid $70 CDN for Tornado, X sent the registration card to SH and never heard ANYTHING back from them? X There hasn't even been the average piece of junk mail land at my door, X let alone some updates on release dates for new products. I won't dare to X ask if they let out word on the 1.0b patch yet. X X Oh well, I'll just have to keep flying those tough missions OVER and X OVER until the SAMs get fixed. ;! X X X What do you mean, the autopilot can't terrain X follow up that cliff at 760 kts....WHAM! X X Darrin X X ( Saw a Tornado up close at the Halifax airshow today. The thing X is a flying bomb truck, all hulking engines and hardpoints! ) X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: RE:Ignored by SH X XDarrin writes X X> Just a quick thought.... X X> Am I the only person in North America who paid $70 CDN for Tornado, X> sent the registration card to SH and never heard ANYTHING back from them? X> There hasn't even been the average piece of junk mail land at my door, X> let alone some updates on release dates for new products. I won't dare to X> ask if they let out word on the 1.0b patch yet. X X> Oh well, I'll just have to keep flying those tough missions OVER and X> OVER until the SAMs get fixed. ;! X X[stuff deleted] X X XIt seems to me SH has always been notorious for not informing game owners Xof patches and the like. I can honestly say that I have never gotten Xa notice of a patch release from SH unless it was a part of a catalog Xof upcoming products. I do not know if manufacturers realize this, but Xnot all gamers have accounts on CI$, Prodigy, AOL, etc etc or even Xon the Internet. Some gamers don't even have a modem!! ::shudder:: I am Xof the opinion that major patches should be sent to all registered owners XREGARDLESS OF REQUEST!! I wonder how many F3 fliers out there have the Xoriginal F3 on a shelf because they are not up on the trends of the Xindustry. Yes some gamers are just that, gamers. They could care less Xabout the industry and buy what catches their at the local software store. XIf a program no work, they just say it broken and put on shelf. XTo date the only patches that just arrived in my mail box one day were Xcompletely new disks for Harpoon and PC Tools 7.1. Not patches, the whole Xexterminated bug free program. X XThe Tornado patch does not really seem like a full patch, more like a few Xfixes with enhancements. It may not fall into the above argument. X XOn another note..... Has SH customer support at CI$ completely left town? XI saw a note here a few weeks back mentioning no response from them. A week Xafter sending a detailed note about my lack of comms connectability in F302 X(You know, the one where they "fixed" comms) I have still to get a Xresponse. X XOn another another note I am cranky this morning. Is anyone else Xgetting sick of the PC platform??? Jeez.. I acquired Enigma for the XShareware wolfentstein 3D game. It only took an hour of configuring Xthe damn computer to get it to run. How about the ol' bug problem Xin X program? "Gee Mr Customer support it won't run!" X "Well mister user, it is because your XYZ bios is not compatible with Xour program. If not that, the sound card driver conficts with your SCSI Xcontroller. We suggest getting a pie pan and two chickens. Put the pie Xpan on your head and sacrifice the chickens over the keyboard, that worked Xfor another user" "thanks Mr Customer support!! Where do I get the pie pan?" X XBoy I hope the day goes better than I feel now!!! X XScott "Bitch bitch bitch" in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 49 ]] END-of-issue049 echo x - issue050 sed 's/^X//' >issue050 << 'END-of-issue050' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I50 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 50 X Tue Sep 21 06:41:07 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado: Command Camp. tactics Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) X RE:Non flight sims MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Tornado: Command Camp. tactics X XHi! X XI managed to end a command campaign (the first in War Zone 1) Xwith a "ceasefire" (around day 4, enemy morale about 57%), and Xthings are looking not too bad in my current campaign X(allied MORALE: 55 %, Supply/Demand ca. 12 % (enemy 7%), Day 3 or X4., I think. Second command campaign in Warzone 1). X XI think morale is crucial! If it drops below say 40 %, you have a Xproblem! X XKilling SCUDS helps a lot (if the priority target finder does not Xgive you a SCUD position, that doesn't mean there are no SCUDs Xleft!). Destroying NBC facilities and runways are other means to Ximprove the morale. Lots of SCUDS are parked at some military bases, Xbut I don't know whether hitting them counts. Of course, you Xcan use the explore feature to look for SCUDs, but this is cheating, Xisn't it? X X XCarmouflaged (sp????) sites are also good targets to indertict Xsupplies to the troops! I think it also helps to fly a ADV mission Xyourself every few missions, to provide better cover and to kill a Xfew fighters. Finding and destroying a flight of Floggers *before* Xthey hit their targets should be extremely helpful, but I have not Xdone that yet. Hmm, maybe it would help to fly to their base and wait Xuntil they return, so at least you could kill a few Floggers after Xthey hit their targets. I've tried landing on roads and hiding Xmy IDS under a bridge, but it doesn't work (collision with ground Xobject :-( ), so you might have to wait circling at low altitude for Xsome time. X XI think before destroying runways, one should sharply reduce the Xresupply routes to the airfield (use the point data window to Xsee where the supplies are coming from), because the repair time Xseems to depend on the supplies of the airfield (great!!). X XHas anyone yet *won* a command campaign? (Which, where and **how**?) XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: masten@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Masten) XSubject: RE: Ignored by SH X X X XScott, in a bitching mood, wrote (:-)): X X>It seems to me SH has always been notorious for not informing game owners X>of patches and the like. I can honestly say that I have never gotten X>a notice of a patch release from SH unless it was a part of a catalog X>of upcoming products. X XI have the opposite experience. SH is one of only two gaming companies Xthat has sent me a patch unsolicited. I did call and email to get one Xof the earlier patches (which they sent). Then they sent me the Xsubsequent patch a few months later. The other company is Pursue Xthe Pennant. X X>I am X>of the opinion that major patches should be sent to all registered owners X>REGARDLESS OF REQUEST!! X XThat would be nice, but I don't expect it. Could get costly sending it Xout to everyone. Games are a lot cheaper than most professional Xsoftware, so I doubt they have as much margin to implement a nice policy Xlike this. X X>I wonder how many F3 fliers out there have the X>original F3 on a shelf because they are not up on the trends of the X>industry. Yes some gamers are just that, gamers. They could care less X>about the industry and buy what catches their at the local software store. X XTrue, I know some of those F3 owners. At least they should be informed X(with the next advertising blurb if necessary) that the game has been Xpatched. Then if they are interested enough to invest a stamp and a Xwalk to the mailbox, then maybe they should get the patch free of Xcharge. X X>If a program no work, they just say it broken and put on shelf. X XBut they do work! Just not as well as I want them too (then again, Xthey never do! :-)) X X>I saw a note here a few weeks back mentioning no response from them. A week X>after sending a detailed note about my lack of comms connectability in F302 X>(You know, the one where they "fixed" comms) I have still to get a X>response. X XBest thing IMO about F3 add-ons is that it means another 2 to 3 rounds Xof patches! How many other games are still putting out patches TWO Xyears later? Hopefully, the CH Pro hat toggling problem will be Xaddressed in the next (as CH intimated). X XDave Xmasten@beta.lanl.gov X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Juan A. Hermoso" XSubject: RE: Ignored by SH ? X XDarrin writes X X> Am I the only person in North America who paid $70 CDN for Tornado, X> sent the registration card to SH and never heard ANYTHING back from them? X> There hasn't even been the average piece of junk mail land at my door, X> let alone some updates on release dates for new products. I won't dare to X> ask if they let out word on the 1.0b patch yet. X XHey, don't feel lonely!. I also bought my copy of Tornado from SH, although Xnot in North America but in Switzerland (at the moment I didn't know it Xwasn't the "European version") and when I saw that everybody else but me Xgot their patches I decided to ask SH what was happening. X XI got the following answer from SH: X X---------------------------------------------------------------------------- XReceived: by ihb.compuserve.com (5.67/5.930129sam) X id AA21757; Wed, 15 Sep 93 15:28:34 -0400 XDate: 15 Sep 93 15:17:43 EDT XFrom: "\\\\illiam" <76004.2144@compuserve.com> XTo: "\"Juan A. Hermoso\"" XSubject: Tornado registration & patches XMessage-Id: <930915191743_76004.2144_CHN110-24@CompuServe.COM> X X X X----------------------------Original message---------------------------- XAt this time the patch is not yet available for Tornado, and we have not Xdone any mailings since it's release. However if you registered your game, Xwhen we do have our newsletter or special offers, they will be sent to Xyou... X X\\illiam XSH X X---------------------------------------------------------------------------- X X XAfter reading this, I wish I would have bought the European version! ;-) X X XJuan-Andres Hermoso X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Companies advertising politics (was: RE: Ignored by SH) X XHi Scott and Dave, X XI expressed my feelings about advertising a few issues ago, so I Xwon't bother You again with that. XIMO the point is: What do I get for my registering? XIf a company uses registering _only_ to get Your address and bomb XYou with advertising why should You spend a penny for a stamp? XIf they send You a lot of advertising(cr*p) _but_ inform You as Xsoon as that the game You registered for has been patched even I Xwould accept their advertising. X XAs far as I know DI is the first company who printed their e-mail Xaddress into the manual and I think it's a first step into the Xright direction. XThere should also be an "E-mail-address"-field on the registering- Xcard, so they can inform You about the latest pathes without spending Xa cent for a stamp. X(I'm lucky, my University pays for my e-mail; what does it cost to X send, say, 20 lines over the Internet?) XFurther-on there is that csipg.annce where companies can reach Xreally many people with one e-mail. X XIf we talk about Tornado or F3 there's another point: the two mailing- Xlists. As far as I know about 400 folks join the F3-list and about X200 the hitech-sim list. If SH or DI would sent one letter to the Xlists they really could save their bucks. And what about if they would Xupload the patches instead of some kind member of the list? X XOk, it's late and I still have this headache (sp?) from the weekend X(Hi Scott ;-), so that's all for today. X XJust think about it... XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I49 X X XScott writes: X>The Tornado patch does not really seem like a full patch, more like a few X>fixes with enhancements. It may not fall into the above argument. X XThis is correct. DI's policy appears to be ``frequent incremental Ximprovements'' rather than ``occasional big leaps''. Revision 1.0c is Xwell on its way to completion and that won't be the end either. Xthink the idea is to avoid awkward gaps in sales / cash flow when a new Xpatch is imminent. X XHowever, it is by no means clear what this means for the Spectrum XHolobyte distributed US version. Perhaps they intend to follow the Xpattern they set with Falcon and release big jumps less frequently Xrather than do every one of DI's revision? Anyone care to Xto ring/hassle/whatever SH and find out? X XAndrew X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Perry The Cynic XSubject: How about non-flying games? X XWell, it *says* "hitech-sim", not "hitech-flightsim", so I'll ask. I'm about Xto get myself a shiny, new, fast PC and I want to celebrate with some Xsimulation games. I need hints and advice. X XAny inhibited Sub Drivers out there? What is your favorite classic (WW2) and Xmodern (Nuc) submarine simulation? How about the other side (Sub-hunting)? XHow about battle group (carrier group?) simulations? X XAnd if it has to fly, what's your favorite helicopter simulation? I've seen Xlots of flight-model discussions on fixed-wing sims; which 'copter simulation Xhas the best flight and weapons model? (And that includes a decent visibility Xmodel, I hope!) X XIf you don't want to pollute the mailing list, send me mail and I'll summarize. XThanks! X -- perry X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: RE:Non flight sims X XPerry asks X>Well, it *says* "hitech-sim", not "hitech-flightsim", so I'll ask. I'm about X>to get myself a shiny, new, fast PC and I want to celebrate with some X>simulation games. I need hints and advice. X X>Any inhibited Sub Drivers out there? What is your favorite classic (WW2) and X>modern (Nuc) submarine simulation? How about the other side (Sub-hunting)? X>How about battle group (carrier group?) simulations? X X>And if it has to fly, what's your favorite helicopter simulation? I've seen X>lots of flight-model discussions on fixed-wing sims; which 'copter simulation X>has the best flight and weapons model? (And that includes a decent visibility X>model, I hope!) X X>If you don't want to pollute the mailing list, send me mail and I'll summarize. X>Thanks! X> -- perry X XWell if I recall correctly, when Jeff started this list it was basically Xto apply to all hi tech strategy sims. (Though a little talk of World XCircut slips in every now and then :-) So inquiries about sub or helo sims Xis alright (IMO). X XAs far as sub sims go, I only have one, and that is Red Storm Rising by XMicroprose. It about 4 years old (?) Even though it is that old with Xsomewhat cheesy graphics it is pretty good. I know alittle about sub Xmechanics and tactics from reading books and the like, but not much. It Xseems to model sub activities and weapons well enough, but is by no means Xas realsitic as it could be. Subs are probably the most complex weapons Xsystem going, I don't think any sub sim really does the technical aspects Xof the modern sub justice. Dynamix is coming out with Grey Wolf here Xpretty soon. I think GW is to model the subs of WWII. With the Xemphasis going to more complex and realistic sims, it should be something Xto see. XIf you find Red Storm Rising, it will likely be in the bargain bin and for X10 - 15 dollars it is pretty cheap for what it is. X XSpeaking of Dynamix, what about Seal Team when it is released all? Looks Xlike a winner from the views of the demo. It will be fun to see the war Xfrom the ground troops instead of zooming over at 400 knts. X XHelo sims: There are really only two, Gunship 2000 and Comanche, Maximum Over XKill. To make it simple, if you like *stunning* graphics and aracadish fun, Xgo with Comanche. If you want a helo sim, Gunship is the better of the two. XIf you get Gunship get the Islands and Ice add on disk. I hear it adds Xalot and fixes some inaccuracies. I never got I & I however. X XAnother startegy sim you might want check out is Harpoon by Three Sixty. XIn the basic game you are admiral over the north Atlantic Fleet (or Soviet Xfleet) and must sail you task force and complete the missions objectives. XAdd on disks and scenerios are available. I hear Harpoon II is due sometime Xsoon. From what I have read it will a real improvement to an already great sim. X X XWell there is my 2 cents X XYes all my head is feeling better thank you very much :-) How bout yours XJoerge? :-) X XScott "I hope I got that name right" in WV X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 50 ]] END-of-issue050 echo x - issue051 sed 's/^X//' >issue051 << 'END-of-issue051' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I51 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 51 X Wed Sep 22 06:58:50 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Ignored by SH? PELLE96@medcor.mcgill.ca X RE: non-flying sims masten@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Mast X Re: sub simulations m.roesch@genie.geis.com X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: PELLE96@medcor.mcgill.ca XSubject: Re: Ignored by SH? X X XWell, now I feel better! Someone else than myself has also paid $70 CDN for XTornado! X XThing is, I can't get the damn thing to work on my machine, and nobody seems Xto have experienced anything similar to my problem... X XI can't give the specifics for my computer since I'm not in front of it, Xbut generally, this is what happens when I try to play the game: X XInstallation was problem-free. The game loads properly initially, and Xpresents me with the main menu. From this point on, things get a bit more Xcomplicated... All three main selections correctly lead to further menus, Xbe they for mission selection, or mission planning (the mission planner Xworks perfectly - and is very impressive). However, if I ever try to Xselect any option which would lead to the 3-D simulated world (ie. takeoff, Xexplore, flight demo, ...), the game pops back to the main title screen Xfor a few seconds (HD working), and then fades out to a black screen and Xa completely frozen computer (CTRL-ALT-DEL does not work). X XI have a Modulux 486DX/33 with 4 megs RAM, 120 meg HD running on DOS 6 X(doublespaced) with an ATI Vantage video card, internal modem (in COM 3), Xinternal CD-ROM (inactive for game sessions - driver not loaded). X XTurning all sound options off does not solve the problem... X XI'll have to post another message for specifics (autoexec, config, etc...), Xbut if this sound remotely familiar, I would appreciate any input! X XThanks in advance, X XJean-Philippe Pelletier X XPELLE96@MEDCOR.MCGILL.CA X X------------------------------- X XFrom: masten@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Masten) XSubject: RE: non-flying sims X X XAs Scott said, this is the place for all fancy-shmancy sims! Nice to Xsee another subject raised. X X>Any inhibited Sub Drivers out there? What is your favorite classic (WW2) and X>modern (Nuc) submarine simulation? How about the other side (Sub-hunting)? X>How about battle group (carrier group?) simulations? X XProbably worth waiting right now. Scott mentioned Dynamix' Grey Wolf, Xwhich has been renamed "Aces of the Deep". Otherwise, the WWII sim of Xchoice is MPS's Silent Servie II which you can get real cheap (even from XMPS). Its graphics are still decent by todays standards. X XI'm waiting for EA's update of 688 Attack Sub called SSN-21 Seawolf (or Xsome such), which is a modern day sim of the titled sub. I really liked X688 though it is dated. And CGW's wargame expert had a fairly low Xopinion of it, saying it seemed to be modelling WWII type combat with a Xmodern sub. Still, it was fun, tense, and had a modem option (you vs XAlpha sub. But I never used it :-() X XI too am waiting for Harpoon II. Harpoon is a lot of work, but I used it Xas a way to learn a bit about naval combat. X X>And if it has to fly, what's your favorite helicopter simulation? I've seen X XI'll second Scott's comments. I had, and enjoyed, Gunship2000. Very Xmuch in the tradition of other MPS sims (good and bad). But better than Xthe rest in that you commanded a flight of five copters. X XDave Xmasten@beta.lanl.gov X X------------------------------- X XFrom: m.roesch@genie.geis.com XSubject: Re: sub simulations X X X[ PLEASE edit the subject line. Re: Sim digest 49 doesn't make sense X to anyone. Thanks! -Jeff ] X XPerry, X You might also want to wait until around Christmas to buy a sub sim, XSeawolf is coming from the same people that made 688 Attack Sub, and it Xsounds like it's going to be something else. The things I hear the most Xabout are the hi fidelity physics modeling and the sounds, John Ratcliffe Xbeing the main programmer and one of the hottest names in sound generation Xon PC's today. There have been blurbs about it in all the game magazines Xlately. X Gunship 2000 is proably the best helo sim you'll find these days, but Xsadly that's not saying much. 'Nuff said. X X Martin Roesch X m.roesch@genie.geis.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 51 ]] END-of-issue051 echo x - issue052 sed 's/^X//' >issue052 << 'END-of-issue052' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I52 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 52 X Wed Sep 22 20:44:24 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X RE: non flight sim COSULICH@area.trieste.it X Wild Weasel (N. R. "Norm" Lunde) norm@ctr.colum X Re: Wild Weasel MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X RE: Fix for Tornado Lock-Up dvallis@swamp.alt.ns.ca (Darrin Val X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: COSULICH@area.trieste.it XSubject: RE: non flight sim X X XHi, Xabout sub sim I like SUB 688. It's old I know, but it has always a particular Xfashion. It seems coming out from the page of "Hunt for Red October". XA good WW2 sub sim is Wolfpack: here you can attack enemy convoys or enemy's Xsubs. Try it! And the last I've tried was "Das Boot": the only nice thing of Xthis sub sim, in my opinion, was you can fight against planes and sail through Xmines: the previous two were much more better for me. XSorry but I don't remember co. names producing them. XCiao Guido X X XCosulich@area.trieste.it X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: (N. R. "Norm" Lunde) norm@ctr.columbia.edu XSubject: Wild Weasel X X XJust for fun, I decided to go SAM-hunting without ALARMs the other day. XI found isolated Rombs were quite easy to kill -- just come in at VERY Xlow altitude (below 200 ft, without the TFR autopilot) and watch for Xblips on the RWR. Pick a SAM launcher and turn toward him. When he Xlaunches, you should be able to see a big puff of smoke (has anyone else Xnoticed this?) and probably the missile itself. Drop some flares and keep Xyour speed up (500 kts is good). By the time the missile comes out of Xboost phase and noses over to look for you, it will be high over your head Xand it will either go for the flares or fly into the ground. X XUse manual mode to drop a pair of BL.755 or RET right on the Romb's head. XAgain, speed helps your aim and keeps you alive. X XOf course, this technique doesn't work quite as well against Shilkas :-) X X X X F/O Norm "Fox Four" Lunde X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Re: Wild Weasel X XNorm Lunde writes X X>Just for fun, I decided to go SAM-hunting without ALARMs the other day. X XACK!!!!! You masocist!!!!! :-) X X>I found isolated Rombs were quite easy to kill -- just come in at VERY X>low altitude (below 200 ft, without the TFR autopilot) and watch for X>blips on the RWR. Pick a SAM launcher and turn toward him. When he X>launches, you should be able to see a big puff of smoke (has anyone else X>noticed this?) and probably the missile itself. Drop some flares and keep X XRegarding the smoke, yep, kinda nice to see all the little details in this Xsim. Aslo got some good looks at SAMs ;-) X X>your speed up (500 kts is good). By the time the missile comes out of X>boost phase and noses over to look for you, it will be high over your head X>and it will either go for the flares or fly into the ground. X XThis is what I wanted to comment on. In a fit of disgust with over powerful XSAM's (IMO) one night I decided to ignore them and just fly straight into them Xat high speed. The lights suddenly went off in the ol' brain cells to just Xwhat you mention. It seems that on some missions if you come in low and fast Xwith ECM on the SAM's won't lauch till fairly late. By that time they are Xalmost totally ineffective. They can't turn down towards you fast enough Xto get the head on shot at you. A little chaff and flares helps to X"spread your image". X X XFor those planning missions, I tried this. X XTo help your mission planning, add a turning point right after your target Xpoint. While on autopilot, as soon as your bombs release is done the plane Xshould begin a sharp turn to the next waypoint. If any SAM's come up after you, Xyou will have already entered a turn and all you need to do is dump chf and Xflres. X X XScott in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X------------------------------- X XFrom: dvallis@swamp.alt.ns.ca (Darrin Vallis) XSubject: RE: Fix for Tornado Lock-Up X X JP Pelletier wrote in about his 486 locking-up on Tornado..... X X JP, this sounds like one of those chicken bones and black magic Xproblems arising from Direct Memory Access (DMA) or Interrupt Request (IRQ) Xconflicts. If Tornado tries to do any sneaky things with disk or memory Xaccess, the CD ROM or internal modem could be in conflict. X Try removing both cards, then running the game. Check the card Xdocumentation for which jumper should be set to change the IRQ and DMA Xchannels. A bit of experimentation should solve the problem. X XDarrin Vallis (computer engineer, Royal Military College) X Xdvallis@swamp.alt.ns.ca X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 52 ]] END-of-issue052 echo x - issue053 sed 's/^X//' >issue053 << 'END-of-issue053' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I53 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 53 X Fri Sep 24 06:50:39 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Changes to the digests jeff@neon.rain.com X Helos and Harpoon Dave 'Philios' Prentice X Do-it-yourself flight sim kit rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X "Chains of Command" rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Air Warrior roster utility knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: jeff@neon.rain.com XSubject: Changes to the digests X X XBecause of all of the bouncing mailers in the world, I've had Xto change the reply address for both mailing lists to be directed Xto an address that is deleted automatically. As a result, when Xyou reply to something on the list, you will have to make sure that Xit is sent to the proper address. (eg: hitech-sim@onion.rain.com or Xfalcon3@onion.rain.com.) X XLater, X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@onion.rain.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Dave 'Philios' Prentice XSubject: Helos and Harpoon X XI'd like to raise my voice in support of GS-2000 and Harpoon both, as has Xbeen done previously. I'd really love to see a good helo sim done, and if XDI is looking for suggestions then thats the direction I'd point them, XUntil then, Gunship 2000 will have to suffice for me. X XI will admit that there is a certain arcadish quality to the game. Its not Xhalf the sim that Tornado is, but considering that it came from Microprose XI think that it is pretty good. Commanche is nice and pretty but it just Xdoesn't fly like I expect a helicopter to fly. In defense of it, I will add Xthat it is supposed to be a FBW helicopter with all kinds of automatic Xsystems. Regardless, it still flys like a fixed-wing plane. OTOH, the Xhelos in GS-2000 actually seem to fly like helicopters. X XI'm biased towards low-tech in my sims. I admit it. I still enjoy FOTI Xbecause it models two of my favorite jets, the F4 and the A4, in a campaign Xscenerio we are all likely to be familiar with (Vietnam). When I play XGS-2000 I stick to the Kiowa, the Cayuse, and the Cobra. I'd fly a Huey Xgunship if that was an option. X XHarpoon is a completely different sort of game. Harpoon is *not* an action Xgame in any sense of the word. A single scenerio can take weeks to finish, Xsince you have intimate control of large numbers of surface (naval) units, Xsubmarines, and aircraft. If your command includes a carrier battlegroup Xyou'll have individual control of every plane, ship, boat, and helo. This Xcontrol goes right down to controlling exactly how often and for what length Xof time a ship's radar lights up. You can program long complicated courses Xfor each vessel, including multiple waypoints with different actions for Xeach. Harpoon is the best modern naval warfare simulation I've ever seen. XVery realistic, but almost unplayable if you don't happen to be a navy trivia Xexpert. X XI love both GS-2000 and Harpoon for completely different reasons, but in Xwriting this I happened to think momentarily about what I'd like to see in XDI's next flightsim production, and what peeves me about every other sim XI've played/flown to date. X XTo begin with, I like to get down in the weeds when I fly. I like sims Xthat let me fly low and fast and model the ground well. My normal ship Xin GS-2000 is a Kiowa warrior. Occasionally I'll fly the little Hughes XDefender (I still slip up and call it a Cayuse occasionally). I like to Xget down so low its actually unsafe. More than once I've encountered a Xdowndraft (yes, in GS-2000) and churned up a furrow because I was distracted Xat the time. Thats what I get for flying with max time compression without Xthe autopilot. X XI have yet to see a sim that models a forest full of trees, and this ticks Xme off. GS-2000 is nice enough with the occasional grove. I've never flown XTornado to know what the ground looks like in it, but unless I see loads Xof trees with trunks and branches I'm not happy. Falcon3 is great above X500ft, but down low the only difference between a jungle and a desert is Xthe color of the ground. I find this to be extremely unrealistic, and at Xtimes very disorienting. X XI have two ideas for DI's next production. One would be to totally remake XFOTI from the ground (mud) up. I'd love to see a simulation of the F4 and Xthe A4 with current sim technology. Actually, going one step better would Xbe to model carrier air power in the Gulf of Tomkin from about 65-72, perhaps Xfocusing on specific periods for campaigns such as Tet '68 or the Linebacker Xcampaigns. This would necessitate modelling the A1 and A7 as well. You Xwon't ever hear any complaints from me about this. I'm considering for a Xmoment how campaigns work in Dynamix's recent flightsims and think that this Xidea could very well work. One idea might be to have campaigns follow a Xsingle pilot through the range of years covered by the game, while another Xwould be for a campaign to put you in the role of CAG for the duration of Xa single rotation on station. X XMy next idea is for a new helicopter sim. I know that SH is supposed to Xhave an AH-64 sim coming along somewhere, and I'm sure that it will be Xtotally cool when it comes out. Not to step on their toes, I'd suggest Xgoing back to Vietnam for a helicopter sim. Considering that the two Xworkhorse helicopters for the duration of the war used the same engine Xand rotor assembly (the UH-1 and the AH-1) it ought to be simple enough Xto include them both in one sim. I know that the fly completely different Xfrom each other, so it won't be a matter of just changing a control panel Xand weapons options. With this I would also suggest covering the duration Xof the most intense ground combat. In order to be complete, the Cayuse and Xthe Kiowa would also have to be modelled. Should also include a large Xnumber of support craft, including bird-dogs, Jolly Greens, and an ample Xsupply of bomb-trucks of varying shapes and sizes (F104;F4;A1,4,6,7) for Xsupport. Along these lines, the ability to call for air and arty support Xwould be nice. X XI'm not thinking about some sim that models an attack company of Cobras, Xbut a complete lift batallion. Of course you can't fly or use all of the Xhelos at once, but just having them available to fly would be enough. XAlternatively, you *could* look at the evolution of the attack company Xthrough the war, beginning with UH-1B's and UH-1CM's wallowing down the Xrunway grasping for transitional lift, and ending with S&D pink teams of XCobras and Kiowas ferreting out bunkers and troop emplacements. X XI guess maybe someone is going to complain that this would be too "dirty" Xof a sim. Too much blood. Maybe this is so, but I've gotten sick of Xthe sterile atmosphere of GS-2000. F3 isn't much better since you boom Xalong thousands of feet above your target. I want to see a sim where the Xtarget you are assigned to destroy is completely hidden in a wall of jungle Xand can only be seen when it starts throwing 57mm tracers at you. I want Xto fly a sim where targets of opportunity are not politically correct like XSCUD launchers, but real things like *people*. X XMost of all, I want trees. I want lots of trees. Shrubbery in GS-2000 is Xnothing but eye-candy, which is about all that can be said about ground Xfeatures in any MPS game I've seen. I don't care if each individual trunk Xhas to be modelled with the same processor load that it takes to draw a Xmountain or a cloud. I want trees. I want to see people in the trees, I Xwant to be able to hide behind trees, crash into trees, have branches in Xmy windscreen, shoot people out of trees, and maybe even fly over a few now Xand again. X XActually it seems that all they would have to model would be the breaks Xbetween a clearing and the forest. Over the tops of the trees it would be Xno more different than flying over ground. *EXCEPT* that it would not be Xnice and regular. As an aside, I've been flying in Nat'l Guard helos as Xa flight medic for several years now. Night vision goggles is just part of Xthe job, and I can say for certain that the roof of a forest is *not* Xsmooth like programmers would have you believe. Seems that the favorite Xplanes to model are fast high-flying jets. Thats easy enough since you Xdon't have to worry about how detailed the ground gets. Maybe I should get Xhold of Tornado (beg, borrow, of whine) to see for myself, but from the Xbox photos DI doesn't seem to have improved very much over SH on this Xpoint. X XI think that it ought to be obvious where I think that processing power Xought to go in new sims. We already have pretty good flight modelling, Xgood weapons systems, and any improvement in graphics resolution would Xresult in prohibative memory overhead for the currect architecture. The Xnext most reasonable point to improve upon is the ground environment. X XDave X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: d90-mla@nada.kth.se XSubject: Tornado problems X XHi there! X XSomeone wrote earlier about having problems with getting to the flying stage Xin Tornado. I had the same problem before when I got it. My solution turned Xout to be to use MOUSE.COM in AUTOEXEC.BAT instead of MOUSE.SYS in CONFIG.SYS. X XUsing the MOUSE.COM also solved a problem with Falcon (all digitized sounds Xwere screwed up, Bitching Betty turned in to "bjelp bjelp bjelp"), but I Xthink that part has been discussed before on the Falcon list. X X/Mats X X------------------------------------------------------------------------------ XMats Lanner Royal Institute of Technology Xd90-mla@nada.kth.se Stockholm, Sweden X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jay.lee@msbbs.mn.org (Jay Lee) XSubject: Sim-Wishes X XSuggestions/wishes for future simulations: X X I agree with the gent who favoured a carrier battle group; this would Xbe a fine* addition to the fine land based work SH and DI have done. Whether Xthis is in present day, or Viet Nam era, I'm a little wobbly -- I'd love a Xfirst-line 'nam Sim. FotI is without doubt (IMO) the best available, it has Xsome very nice features, notably the ability to switch between the aircraft Xflying in your strike group (both between A6 and F4!), on the down side there's Xa limited number of targets, and the terrain is as flat as a board. Still, I Xlog a mission or four each week; the Intruder is a fine plane to drive, it has Xa good computer-based bombing mode along with smart bombs, shrikes, harms, Xlau's (with which I've downed a MiG!). Excuse me, this is turning into a Xtestimonial for FotI! X X Other aircraft I'd like to see simulated WELL would include the AV8 XHarrier, the now retired :( Blackbird (Your mission: Pre- and Post- strike Xphoto's of Hanoi after the next Linebacker flight). More important than what Xyou're driving is going to be the environment, levels of interaction with other Xunits, the Electronic Battlefield concept. X X The way SH is adding different flight models to the F3 'world' is an Xexcellent* concept, and I'd like to see any new work to be written with this Xpremise as one of the fundamental concepts of the program. X X 'Padlock' can be scrapped, as far as I'm considered. What I've seen, I Xdon't like. Admittedly, it is how you'd fly if you had the ability to move Xyour head, but the way it's implemented just annoys me and destroys my SA in Xregards to where I am, my altitude, and the rest of my flight. I don't like Xthe idea of impossing even greater hardware limitations -- I've got a 386 based Xmachine, and upgrading to a 486-based system isn't a possibility for me. XBit-mapped graphics? Well, it would LOOK nice, but to move along at a nice Xclip would require both a fast machine and a lot of stored data. X X Excuse me for rambling, or free-associating, whichever fits! X XKFS X X j X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Chera Bekker XSubject: TFX a new flight sim by DID X XTFX, a new simulation by Digital Image Design. X XI read in the PC-Review (British Magazine) of September a preview article Xabout Tactical Fighter Experiment (TFX) developed by the Liverpool based Digital XImage Design. This group has been responsible in the past for F-29 Retaliator XRobocop 3 and Epic. X XAccording to the article TFX is set in the near future. The United XNations have formed a rapid response force to deal with local trouble spots. XYou, as a UN pilot, get to choose from three planes to fly: The F117 stealth Xbomber, the F-22 or the European Fighter Aircraft (EFA). X XThe player can choose either to fly arcade-like missions (something like IA in XFalcon 3?), a tour of duty in a single hot-spot or a 'full blown campaign'. It Xwas not made clear in the article what a 'full blown campaign' meant. X XAccording to the authors they have consulted various aeronautics experts to Xmake the flight models as realistic as possible. According to a spokesman: X(begin quote) ' [DID] wanted to create a game that was like F-29 and Falcon 3.0 Xcombined, at one end ultra-realistic and the other arcadey, all in the same Xgame' (end quote). X XFor their campaigns DID have mapped almost 20 percent of the worlds surface to Xuse in their world-generator. X XThe graphics feature Gouraud-shaded planes with Xvisible logos. One of the external view screen-shots showed an Gouraud-shaded XEFA with visibly mounted ordnance and an UN logo on its tail. On the background Xwere snowcapped mountains which faded in the distance. It looked quite nice. XDID promises a landscape with bridges, big cities and mountains with Xtree-lines. They also suggested you'd better have a fast 486 if you want to Xfly it in full detail in the most realistic mode (Where did I hear that one Xbefore, SC maybe?) X XTFX sports a padlock view which simulates the helmet mounted sight: (begin Xquote) 'The only thing that will stay fixed in the view is the HUD and Xeverything else moves around' (end quote). X XThere was nothing in the article about the campain structure, also nothing Xabout comms facilities and multiple plane flights :(. X XMy question to other readers: who knows something more about this upcoming Xsim? Especially concerning the above mentioned topics of comms and campaign Xstructure? X X X Tally Ho! X X Chera 'NAPALM' Bekker X X XFACTS: X XTitle: TFX XDeveloper: Digital Image Design XPublisher: Ocean XContact: UK (081) 832 6633 XRelease date: September :):) XPrice: TBA (To Be Announced?) X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: Do-it-yourself flight sim kit X XThe latest (October?) issue of "Computer Gaming World" has a preview Xof a roll-your-own flight sim kit from Domark. It's a Windows program X(it's not clear if the sims it generates are Windows or DOS programs) Xthat lets you design planes, scenery, scenarios (including combat), Xcockpits, and compile them into a standalone (you won't need the kit to Xrun the generated sim.) program. Projected release date is October, '93. X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Rogers) XSubject: "Chains of Command" X XReaders of this group will probably enjoy Dale Brown's newest techno-thriller X"Chains of Command". It's got some very detailed sections describing attack Xruns in F-111 bombers. As to the plot, well, let's just say that the end Xof the Cold War was a real disaster for techno-thriller writers and fans. X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Air Warrior roster utility X XThanks to Mark "Cookie" Kuebeler, his Air Warrior roster utility Xhas been placed on cactus.org in the /pub/genie/airwar directory Xas awroster.zip X XJim "Red Beard" Knutson | n | XGenie: J.KNUTSON ----(*)==(:)==(*)---- X#5111, 666th FS Internet Daemons Check Six! Xknutson@mcc.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 53 ]] END-of-issue053 echo x - issue054 sed 's/^X//' >issue054 << 'END-of-issue054' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I54 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 54 X Mon Sep 27 06:14:04 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Sim Wishes Khiem Tran X Re: Tornado questions att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Khiem Tran XSubject: Sim Wishes X X XHi all, X X The ideas for a down and personal ground attack sim sound really X good, but I would be more interested in something at the opposite X end of the spectrum. X X No matter how advanced the computer AI an air-to-air sim uses, X they all seem to break down into one big furball of assorted X enemies/allies regardless of the number of aircraft involved. X X How about a sim that features division- and section- level X tactics and coordination. I'm not just talking about F3's X canned moves, but a game with intelligent teamwork and cooperation X Some examples would be wingman that actually watch over you, X and do something to help your SA ("Stranger five low"). Wingman X that actually tell you if they're about to do something, or if X they've lost you. The ability to divide your forces between X topcover /engagers or to take turns making slashing attacks X instead of fighting to endgame. X X This would be especially good in a WWII environment, although I X would be happy to see it in any new sim release. X X The problem it seems, is that no matter how accurate the flight X models are or how good the pilot logic is, the simulated battles X aren't turning out like the historical ones. An entire half of X the battle is currently missing from the game. The inability to X coordinate turns most encounters into furballs which are simply X battles of attrition. Missing is the inconclusive nature of most X engagements up to the missile era, the ability to cooperate in X defence or that of a smaller unit to bounce and zoom a larger one. X X The big problem, of course, will be finding a way of providing X this level of control without the aid of a microphone and speech- X recognition. If it can be done, though, it would really take X air-to-air simulation one step ahead. X XKhiem. X X X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Re: Tornado questions X XAndrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk writes: X X>The crucial trick to taming to the SAMs (100% lethal or otherwise) X>is to ensure the ALARM's have time to do their job without the X>baddies getting off lots of launches and closing the range. X>If you're using ALARM alone in direct mode this pretty much means X>dodging out of the way for 10-20 secs before heading back in toward the X>SAM area. If you're relying on ALARM fired in indirect mode X>you need to be dead sure you allow 25 seconds *after the ALARM X>have deployed their 'chutes* for them to lock on and hit their X>targets before, showing up in range. X XDoes this mean you slow down when you fire the ALARMs, and only allow the XSAMs to paint you once their chutes have deployed? X X>A favourite tactic of mine is to indirect ALARM an exit choke-point on the X>*way out*, nip in just long enough to light up the radars, and then X>continue out toward my targets. That way the ALARMS get *plenty* X>of time to do their stuff. X XI'll have to try that! X XI have a question about using multiple ALARMs in indirect mode. I just Xgot the game recently, so I apologize if this is old stuff. When I fly Xthe ALARM simulator mission, I'm supposed to attack the AAA and SAM Xsites at waypoint Y with indirect ALARMs. I launch both at Y, and they Xboth hit the AAA every time, even if I wait several seconds between Xlaunches. I've tried setting a target of opportunity waypoint very near XY in various directions and firing the second ALARM toward that instead Xof Y, but it never sees anything and always ends up wasted. Am I doing Xsomething wrong, or is this just an unusual case. If, while on a real Xmission, I lob four indirect ALARMs at a single waypoint, am I Xinevitably wasting three of them? X X== X Xstenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) writes: X X>1) Does the ALARM (fired in indirect mode) detect hostile radar emmisions X> during the approach or does it the zoom-climb anyway? X XI'm sure it zooms anyway, just by watching it during the ALARM simulator Xmission. It also seems like the missile doesn't even look for radar Xemissions until it's hanging from its chute, so if you exit the area Xbefore then and the hostile radar turns off, your ALARM is wasted. Is Xthis really the case? X X>2) Does the ALARM burn its fuel until it has run out of it (and then X> starts the zoom- climb) or does it shut of the engine when it has X> reached the waypoint and start the climb right above it? X XIt looks like it does not burn for very long, and coasts most of the way Xto the target unless fired in direct mode from very short range. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 54 ]] END-of-issue054 echo x - issue055 sed 's/^X//' >issue055 << 'END-of-issue055' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I55 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 55 X Wed Sep 29 07:46:20 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Harpoon Help Kevin Franden X Re: Tornado questions (I 54) Joerg Stenger X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Kevin Franden XSubject: Harpoon Help X X X XAll, X XI've got a really annoying problem that I hope someone can give some Xhelp on. Quite frequently (25%-33%) when giving orders to a group X(I've noticed this most frequently to air groups) the group ignores Xthe order! This manifests itself mostly on attack commands; I tell Xan air group to attack somthing (anything) and it continues on the Xlast order. It's very frustrating to have to continually check on Xthe airgroups to make sure they're doing what I want. X XI've got the HDS II which upgrades your harpoon to 1.32 and am using Xharp386. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance. X X X-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= XKevin Franden Informix Software, Inc. X 16011 College Blvd Xkevinf@informix.com Lenexa, KS. 66219 X{pyramid|uunet}!infmx!kevinf X Xfprintf(DISCLAIMER,"I said what I said and not my employer"); X=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- X XThere are Lies, Damn lies, Statistics, Benchmarks, and Delivery Dates X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: Tornado questions (I 54) X XRob (opus@ihlpf.att.com) wrote in Issue 54: X X> stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) writes: X> X> >1) Does the ALARM (fired in indirect mode) detect hostile radar emmisions X> > during the approach or does it the zoom-climb anyway? X> X> I'm sure it zooms anyway, just by watching it during the ALARM simulator X> mission. It also seems like the missile doesn't even look for radar X> emissions until it's hanging from its chute, so if you exit the area X> before then and the hostile radar turns off, your ALARM is wasted. Is X> this really the case? X XI don't know, but I got no SAM/AAA kill although the ALARM (ind.) had Xplenty of time to reach the target area and I was painted for at least X25 seconds (I know, shame on me! Big tactical mistake!). XAnybody more comments?? X X> X> >2) Does the ALARM burn its fuel until it has run out of it (and then X> > starts the zoom- climb) or does it shut of the engine when it has X> > reached the waypoint and start the climb right above it? X> X> It looks like it does not burn for very long, and coasts most of the way X> to the target unless fired in direct mode from very short range. X XAfter looking through the manual I found out that the goal for the zoom- Xclimb is the next waypoint , eg. if You are between c and d, it will do Xthe climb above d (if d is in range). X X> X> Rob X> opus@ihlpf.att.com X> X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 55 ]] END-of-issue055 echo x - issue056 sed 's/^X//' >issue056 << 'END-of-issue056' XTo: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I56 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 56 X Fri Oct 1 21:52:18 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Harpoon Help HNRSALEE@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu X SPACECAST 2020 jeff@neon.rain.com X Tornado Flies!!! PELLE96@medcor.mcgill.ca X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: HNRSALEE@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu XSubject: Re: Harpoon Help X XWith 1.32 version of Harpoon, the flight groups will automatically choose Xthe best speed/efficiency to intercep and attack other units. Choosing Xthe attack or intercept command puts the flight group on a kind of "autopilot." XIf you then change their orders, like setting a different speed, they switch Xback to "manual" control and ignore the previous attack order. X XPaul X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jeff@neon.rain.com XSubject: SPACECAST 2020 X X XYo! I received the following in the mail, and thought that people Xhere might be interested in seeing what the USAF is up to. X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@neon.rain.com X X------- Forwarded Message X XDate: Thu, 30 Sep 93 18:28:04 XFrom: auspace@afit.af.mil (SPACECAST 2020) XTo: auspace@neon.rain.com XSubject: Call for Abstracts (SPACECAST 2020) X XPlease disseminate this information within your organization as widely Xas possible via internal e-mail and local newsgroups. Thank you. X X CALL FOR ABSTRACTS X X AIR FORCE STUDY X on X Technology and Innovative Applications of Space Hardware X XThe United States Air Force is conducting a study to identify Xcreative technologies and innovative applications of hardware that Xwill support national security well into the next century. Air XUniversity at Maxwell AFB, Alabama is chairing the study, which Xwill be called SPACECAST 2020. The product will recommend specific Xtechnologies and applications that have the greatest potential. X XIncluded in the first phase of this effort is the solicitation of X"brainstorming" abstracts from government agencies, industry, Xacademia, and private individuals. The Air Force Institute of XTechnology at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio will handle these Xabstracts for the study. Abstracts are needed in three areas: X X 1. Emerging research technologies that, if exploited, can X significantly improve the capabilities of our space systems X (to include satellite design, reliability, remote sensing, X data processing, power production, stealth, etc.). X X 2. Innovative space systems and applications for military X purposes. X X 3. Prior studies and briefings on future military space X systems. X XIf you have information in these areas, please provide one-page Xabstracts that include: X X 1. A brief description of the concept. X X 2. Your understanding of the concept's military application X and associated technical risks and tradeoffs. X X 3. Your name and how you can be contacted. X XPlease remember the emphasis is on NEW or INNOVATIVE technologies Xand uses for systems that could be fielded by the year 2020. Also, Xplease limit responses to one abstract per page with classification Xno higher than SECRET. Your support is appreciated. X XAbstract submittal by 15 October 1993 is requested. However, Xabstracts submitted by 1 March 1994 will be included in the study. XPlease submit abstracts to: X X AU SPACE STUDY TECHNOLOGY TEAM X AFIT/ENA (AFIT/ENAS if abstract is classified) X 2950 P STREET X WRIGHT-PATTERSON AFB OH 45433-7765 X X EMAIL: AUSPACE@AFIT.AF.MIL X FAX: DSN 986-7302 or (513) 476-7302 X PHONE: DSN 785-7210 or (513) 255-7210 X-- XLt Col TS Kelso Deputy Chief, Technology Assessment Team Xtkelso@afit.af.mil Spacecast 2020 Xauspace@afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology X X------- End of Forwarded Message X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: PELLE96@medcor.mcgill.ca XSubject: Tornado Flies!!! X X XHello all, X XWell, I am pleased to say that Tornado now works well on my machine, with Xno lock-ups encountered after several load-ups!! :) X XProblem now is that I read the manual so long ago I end up pressing Xkeys for fun to see what they do (not as mnemonic as F3...), and that Xschool has started... Guess mud-moving will have to wait a b... X XI would like to give many thanks to the people who wrote in to help me X(several!) - you gentlemen saved me big bucks! Turns out all I had Xto do was get a new version of the ATI mouse drivers, and use the X.COM file instead of the .SYS file I had been using previously... X XAnyways, many thanks again to those who took the time to write. I hope XI can return the favor one of these days! X X(and thanks to Jeff for putting up such an efficient pair of digests!) X XJean-Philippe Pelletier XMcGill University Faculty of Medicine XPELLE96@medcor.mcgill.ca X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 56 ]] END-of-issue056 echo x - issue057 sed 's/^X//' >issue057 << 'END-of-issue057' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I57 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 57 X Tue Oct 5 20:06:28 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado: time compressor kbl@lillo.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM X Tornado: Using ALARMs att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net X More comments on tactics stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X Bombs: weather influences and effec stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: kbl@lillo.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM XSubject: Tornado: time compressor X XHi everybody, X XI have finally pulled myself together and written a short Xdescription of a small time compressor I made for Tornado. XIf anybody wants to try it out just let me know and I'll Xmail a uuencoded version. I will upload it to onion.rain.com Xif it is found useful (and somebody tells be where to put it). XHere is the description: X X XTornado Time Compression TSR October 3, 1993 X---------------------------- --------------- X XTTC is a simple TSR that allows time compression during Tornado missions. XTime compression makes events happen faster, and is normally used to Xquickly skip "less interesting" parts of a mission. In Tornado, the Xoutcome of a mission might not always be successful. The mission must Xbe aborted and repeated unless you want your favorite "pilot" to be Xforever KIA. If nothing else is changed a repeated mission will closely Xresemble the original. Often this implies a lot of waiting (in real-time) Xwhile the auto-pilot goes from turn-point to turn-point. YOU know that Xuntil way-point so-and-so is reached nothing interesting will happen. XAnd you will go and make a cup of cofee. But after several retries you Xsort of get fed up with making cofee, and you don't really have anything Xelse (short-term) to do. It gets a bit boring (and timeconsuming) to Xwait for the action (sorry DI). TTC will reduce the waiting time by a Xfactor 2-8. X XAnother feature of TTC is time-limited compression. As TTC is not an Xintegral part of Tornado (in fact it knows nothing about Tornado :-) Xit cannot switch itself off when something happens. To partly remedy Xthis I have included the possibility to turn on compression for a Xgiven time interval from 10 to 80 seconds. This time is "Tornado time". XSay you have a TTG of 1:20 (80 seconds) and you want to compress until XTTG 0:20. Then you simply select 60 seconds of compression REGARDLESS Xof the compression factor. Hence the compressor always runs in X"Tornado time". You can even change the compression factor during Xtimed compression. X XHere is how it is done. Before launching tornado you start TTC. It Xwill give you some extra keyboard controls to speed up things. The Xtime compression keys are: X X Alt+1 to Alt+8 X XAlt+1 turns off time compression while Alt+2 to Alt+8 gives compression Xfactors of 2 to 8. The compressor remains active until you turn it off Xor until is it turned off automatically by a time-limit (see below). XThe time-limited compression keys are: X X Ctrl+1 to Ctrl+8 X XThey temporarily activate compression for from 10 (Ctrl+1) to X80 (Ctrl+8) seconds. If compression is already active it will be Xlimited to the given time interval. If no compression is active TTC Xwill use the compression factor most recently used (or 4 if you never Xactivated the compressor). During the compression interval you can Xchange the factor with the Alt keys or reset a time period with the XCtrl keys. X XYou can turn off compression ANY TIME by simply pressing and releasing Xthe Alt or Ctrl key (or pressing Alt+1). This is quite handy if Xsomething unexpected happens. X X XFILES X----- X X TTC.TXT This file X TTC.EXE The TTC TSR X X XKNOWN PROBLEMS X-------------- X XTTC was developed for my own use. Its written partly in C and is VERY Xsimple. I just wanted time compression with as little effort as Xpossible (less than one (Sun)day). So of course TTC has some Xlimitations and shortcomings: X Xo TTC will not remove itself and will remain active after exiting X Tornado. Reboot your machine after playing Tornado. X Xo Some people might want to play Tornado in compressed mode. It can X be a pain that simply touching Alt or Ctrl turns off compression X mode. It should be selectable via an option. X Xo TTC takes up around 1.2K. The code actually only uses half of that, X but I have spent enough time shuffling those #@%&* segments around. X TTC should be rewritten purely in assembler. X Xo TTC does not know about Tornado. Hence it will activate itself when X you press the proper keys. To be on the safe side I suggest that X you keep time compression turned off when not in the actual flight X mode (ie. turn off compression when in the mission planner). X Xo I have only used TTC with my 386 33MHz and 486 33MHz machines, X PAS16 soundcard and normal joystick running Tornado 1.0B (European X version). I cannot guarantee proper operation on other configurations X (but see DISCLAIMER). X XI have used TTC for some time now (through both level 1 and level 2 Xcampaigns) and have not experienced any problems other than those Xmentioned above. It should be noted, though, that time compression Xleaves less time-per-frame for Tornado. Hence calculations are less Xprecise. In normal situations that has little consequence. But try Xdoing an auto-pilot landing with compression factor 8 :-) X X XWARNING X------- XIn my personal opinion time compression should be used for predictable Xand/or boring parts only. Otherwise it may destroy the atmosphere of Xthe game. X X XVERSION X------- XThis document describes TTC version 1.0 (of course) of October 3, 1993. XI would appreciate comments (negative as well as positive) and Xsuggestions. Currently I have no plans for other versions, but one Xnever knows ;) X X XDISCLAIMER X---------- XTTC does not in any way modify Tornado files or running executables. XIt does not use any patching. All it does is present a slightly Xdifferent environment to Tornado via interrupt vector hooks. To my Xknowledge it should not create any operational problems with Tornado. XIf you DO find Tornado to behave differently when using TTC please Xlet me know. And stop using TTC. I do not take responsibility for any Xproblems created by using TTC (lost or modified files, missions etc.). XAll I intend is to make Tornado even more playable :-) X X Have fun X Kenneth "ICEMAN" Larsen X X------------------------------- X XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Tornado: Using ALARMs X XJoerg Stenger writes: X X>Rob (opus@ihlpf.att.com) wrote in Issue 54: X> X>> stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) writes: X>> X>> >1) Does the ALARM (fired in indirect mode) detect hostile radar emmisions X>> > during the approach or does it the zoom-climb anyway? X>> X>> I'm sure it zooms anyway, just by watching it during the ALARM simulator X>> mission. It also seems like the missile doesn't even look for radar X>> emissions until it's hanging from its chute, so if you exit the area X>> before then and the hostile radar turns off, your ALARM is wasted. Is X>> this really the case? X> X>I don't know, but I got no SAM/AAA kill although the ALARM (ind.) had X>plenty of time to reach the target area and I was painted for at least X>25 seconds (I know, shame on me! Big tactical mistake!). X>Anybody more comments?? X XSure, I've played this game for a lot of hours since I asked my Xquestions (did all missions in Warzone 1 and completed one level one and Xone level two campaign in that theatre), so now I'm in a better position Xto answer them. :^) X XYou are correct that an indirect ALARM is aimed at a waypoint. If you fire Xthe ALARM from 10 nm away (that's what I do, but maybe I'm just being Xconservative), it will take the missile 30 seconds to reach the waypoint, Xzoom to 10K feet, and deploy its parachute. ONLY after it hangs downward Xfrom its chute for a second or so will it start scanning for radar and Xcommit to a target if it finds one. What this means is that indirect mode Xis useless if you try to use it on a target you are approaching head-on. XAn ALARM fired directly will take out the threat quicker. X XMy strategy now is to only use indirect mode in two cases: X X1) When toss bombing a site, I'll send a single indirect ALARM ahead of X me. This won't keep me from getting shot at, but at least it'll nail X the bugger after I've left the scene. X2) If I see that I'll be passing by the perimeter of a SAM coverage zone, X I'll sometimes memorize the spot on the map, designate it as a target X of opportunity during my flight in, then lob an ALARM at it once I'm X 10 nm away without turning towards it (leave track autopilot mode, hit X "t", fire, hit "CTRL-t", reengage track mode). SAMs fired from the side X at near maximum range while you're going 550 KIAS have no chance of X hitting you. X XMany people have emphasized the importance of staying low. I believe XI've found a counterexample. While I try to plan my ingress and egress Xpaths to weave between hills as much as possible, I've found it quite Xeffective if the initial point is on the opposite side of a small hill Xclose to the target. What does this buy me? I keep direct ALARMs armed Xas I go in, and know that as soon as I crest the hill I'll be lit up Xby the target's air defenses from well within maximum SAM range. By firing Xmy ALARMs as soon as I can, I almost guarantee that the SAM launchers will Xeither not have a chance to fire or I will be so close that the missiles will Xfly right overhead and into the ground. X XThe drawback of this technique is that if you get spotted by SAMs away from Xthe target area, you will have to do some evasive maneuvers, hopefully Xafter you've dropped your ordnance. Also, the hill must be far enough Xfrom the target that your plane has a chance to level out before dropping, Xor bombing accuracy will be compromised even in laydown mode. X XI'm getting better at dodging SAMs, especially in daylight hours. If you Xcan see it in your side view, all you have to do is drop a flare as soon Xas you see it just start to get bigger. If it takes the bait, you will Xactually see it divert towards the flare's position behind you and you'll Xknow you're safe. If it doesn't, drop another flare. This method is good Xfor conserving flares, which seem to run out pretty quickly when you're forced Xto fly through heavily defended areas. I don't think flares do anything Xat all at long range. I am forced to drop flares throughout the SAM's flight Xat night since I don't have the patch that makes the RWR beep when the missile Xgets close. Much more difficult. X XHas anyone else had trouble using the loft bombing technique on windy Xdays? If I see a strong wind and I can't line up my path directly toward Xit or away from it, I switch to a different bombing mode. X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: More comments on tactics X XRob writes: X X"[...] While I try to plan my ingress and egress paths to weave between hills X as much as possible, I've found it quite effective if the initial point is X on the opposite side of a small hill close to the target. [...]" X XI like to add an additional point. When You go in to a target, first Xaccelerate to about 650kts. "Crazy!", You may say but that high speed has some Xobvious advantages (and, of course, one big disadvantage): when You pop over Xthe hill You can set Your throttle to 100% MIL w/o Afterburner and still have Xa speed above 550-580kts while You are in the target area. This high speed makes Xit very difficult for AAA to trace You and also SAMs won't have the time to Xlaunch far away enogh to be a serious threat during ingress. Because there is Xno necessarity to engage AB during egress it's much easier to evade all heat- Xseeking threats. Ofcourse You'll have to engage ECM at the first indication Xof threat and dump a few chaffs. I completed several missions using that Xattack-pattern. XNow to the back-side: because of the high speed Your wings have to be in the X67 deg. position, which is an obvious disadvantage if 1) You have to do some Xharsh maneuvers and 2) there are very high mountains on Your in-/egress path. XYou can exclude 1) on ingress if You place the initial point and the waypoint Xbefore the initial point in a way that You don't have to do sharp turns. XAny comments? X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: stenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de (Joerg Stenger) XSubject: Bombs: weather influences and effects X XHi all, X XRob wrote: X"[...] Has anyone else had trouble using the loft bombing technique on windy X days? If I see a strong wind and I can't line up my path directly toward X it or away from it, I switch to a different bombing mode. [...]" X XChera Bekker and me discussed a similar question: I the delivery rate of a XJP.223 influenced by wind? I mean, all the sub-ammunition is floating down Xon parachutes, so a breeze might turn it away from the Runway. I got a Xdelivary rate of 100% sometimes but I ever thought it was because of a per- Xfect waypoint planning so I didn't look at the weather conditions. Has any- Xbody else experiences with that topic? X XAnother question we discussed was the effect of bombong certain targets. XThe manual mentions some of the effects in the Command section and I can Xverify that if the oranges have not a single POL-farm their morale is 0. XBut what about powerstations? I.e. what do You need to bomb to eleminate Xa powerstation. From a technical point of view bombing all cooling-towers Xwould be enough to disable a powerstation, i.e. it could no longer produce Xenergy. Has anyone noticed such an effect? X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 57 ]] END-of-issue057 echo x - issue058 sed 's/^X//' >issue058 << 'END-of-issue058' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I58 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 58 X Sun Oct 10 19:19:28 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X (TORNADO) RE: More comments on tac Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: (TORNADO) RE: More comments on tactics X XHi! X X>I like to add an additional point. When You go in to a target, first X>accelerate to about 650kts. "Crazy! X XI aggree, and there is an additional reason for doing this: XEnemy fighters can't lock on you if you are low and fast X(below ca. 550 ft AGL and above 600 kts, I think). X X>Another question we discussed was the effect of bombong certain targets. X>The manual mentions some of the effects in the Command section and I can X>verify that if the oranges have not a single POL-farm their morale is 0. X XI'm not sure about this. Maybe "supply" goes down to 0, but I don't Xthink this is true for morale. Enemy zero morale should end the Xconflict. I'm currently on a cammand campaign (Day 5, 23:20), and XI think I destroyed all remaining enemy POL installations Xduring the last attack, but the enemy morale is still 38%. Supply is X0 for both sides, although the blue forces still have POL tank farms. X XI tried earlier in the conflict to destroy enemy power plants by Xbombing all cooling towers at each targeted site, but it didn't have Xa big impact on the enemy. I think it was to early in the conflict, Xthe manual says that attacks on power plants work well only if the Xenemy is performing poor (german manual page 101). But the last Xattack on a power station (allied morale 60% at the beginning of the Xmission) was quite successful. The allied morale increased to 62%, X*although* the allied forces lost an airfield and the orange forces Xrepaired one, otherwise this would have meant a big gain in enemy Xmorale. X XI also tried bombing some civil objects like "tall office buildings" Xand "large industrial units" (hey, the orange ones started doing Xthis :-) ), but I don't think it helped a lot. X XAll this applies to the original version. I was unable to continue Xmy campaign under the new version 1.0B. X XOne more think: I admire the programming skills of the author of a Xtime compressor for TORNADO, but *never* felt the need for this. XAfter all, real pilots don't have a time compressor in their cockpits Xeither (not yet :-) ). One think you can do before/after attacks is Xlooking for unexpected threats and targets of opprtunities, Xespecially SCUD launchers. If you land at your airfield and still Xhave an ALARM loaded or more than one or two Sidewinders, then you Xprobably missed some good targets of opprtunity, like ZSUs and XSu-25 / choppers. However, you should engage airborne targets of Xopportunity only if you are near your home base and have enough Xfuel left to speed to over 600 kts to evade enemy fighters that seem Xto be called in by the enemies you engage. XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Mark Kuebeler XSubject: H2H Opponents Wanted for SVGA Air Warrior X XThe following is a list of Air Warriors on GEnie who are interested in Xfinding local H2H opponents for SVGA Air Warrior. Most of them do not Xhave direct Internet access, but can send and receive Internet mail Xthrough GEnie. X XTo contact someone on this list, for example, a player with the GEnie XMail address A.WARRIOR, send Internet mail to X X a.warrior@genie.geis.com X X XEven if you're only interested in finding out more about Air Warrior, a Xplayer in your local area is well worth talking to! X X XArea Code City/State GEnie Mail AW Handle X---------------------------------------------------------------------- X 201 West Caldwell, NJ K.IRITSKY Bebop X X 205 Mobile, AL D.BALMOS Pyro X X 216 Cleveland, OH J.KERR1 Night Train X X 409 College Station, TX M.KUEBELER Cookie X X 504 Baton Rouge, LA B.GRESENS Outlaw X X 813 Tampa, FL G.HEMNESS Baby New Year X X====================================================================== X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 58 ]] END-of-issue058 echo x - issue059 sed 's/^X//' >issue059 << 'END-of-issue059' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I59 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 59 X Tue Oct 12 19:59:33 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado time compression masten@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Mast X (TORN.) Correction (RE: More commen Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: (TORN.) Correction (RE: More comments ..) X XUuups, I was wrong, sorry Joerg! X XI claimed that destroying all of the enemy's POL tank farms Xdoes not cause zero-enemy morale, as Joerg Stenger had Xclaimed. X XWell, in my current command campaign, the enemy still has two XPOL tank farms (I thought I had destroyed all...), enemy morale Xis now down to 31%. I will try to destroy these POL tank farms Xduring the next mission and see what's going to happen to enemy Xmorale. X XJoerg invited us to share our thoughts about the effects on the Xcampaign situation of bombing different targets, and I thing this is Xa good idea. X XFor example, I think that bombing "large industrial units" Xhas a negative effecect on the enemy's mil. strength X(less ammunitions/supply production?). X XMy dear enemy damages one every mission, and my mil. strength Xis stagnating at 80%. The only time during the last few missions Xthat I managed to decrease the enemy's mil. str. was when I hit a Xlarge ind. unit, since then the enemy's is regaining strength (5% Xper mission). The orange forces are also bombing tall office Xbuildings at a rate of 1 per mission, but I don't know what's that Xgoing to help. Are the orange forces trying to decapitate the blue Xgovernment? X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: lmbain@netcom.com (Larry Bain) XSubject: SIM-CON #2; New Dog Fighting Instr. Released X X X X XSIM-CON #2; New Dog Fighting Instr. Released X X Part 2 from a series of reports on: X SIM-CON'93, the Combat Flight Simulator Convention. X X'ART of the KILL', a combined Manual and supplementary VHS video on Xaerial dog fighting instruction was released at the convention. X XFor a rabid lover of dog fighting like me, the slim 125 page manual Xfound within this very oversized package was the hidden treasure at this Xconvention. ART of the KILL is a very focused manual about the BFM X(Basic Fighter Maneuvers) of modern day dog fighting techniques and is Xpresented in an excellent sequence of chapters containing progressive Xlearning objectives. X XStarting with the geometry of Air Combat (Positional, Attack, Weapons XEnvelopes), each chapter builds on the previous as the manual progresses Xthrough Offensive BFM techniques, Defensive BFM techniques, Head-On BFM Xtechniques, and an 'intro' into BVR combat techniques. Each chapter is Xextremely well illustrated and the video tape contains "chalk talk" Xsegments to help supplement each chapter (personally, I thought the Xchapters were excellent and the video merely OK). X XCompared to Tom Shaw's Fighter Combat, AOTK goes into much more detail Xon BFM and compared to Bornstein's Falcon 3, AOTK teaches the BFM of Xreal aircraft as opposed to sims (not to take anything away from Shaw's Xnor Bornstein's books, both are very good in their own right). AOTK is Xpatterned after the type of BFM courses taught by the military. The Xauthor of AOTK, Pete Bonanni is a real F16 Instructor Pilot whom has Xwritten some prior flight-sim books, which incidentally, I did NOT think Xwere very good at all. X XI was able to talk with Pete at the convention (a great guy by the way) Xand he explained that he decided to teach real aircraft BFM rather than Xflight-sim BFM because 1) the flight models in the upcoming PC Xsimulators are getting so much better and 2) the principles learned Xwould be transportable between sims. X XBonanni also said that if AOTK is successful that they will produce a Xseries of instructional style packages that will follow up with other Xcombat aircraft topics such as flight intercepts, flight planning, etc. XSince I'm so impressed with AOTK and I saw Bonanni's excellent Xpresentation on Fighter Intercepts at SIG-CON (Pete's presentations come Xacross much better in person than on video BTW), I am going to Xunabashedly recommend this product for anyone who has the slightest Xinterest in fighter combat; obviously you if you've read this far, your Xflight-sim friends, heh, I bet your 'significant others' would even Xenjoy their own copy for Christmas, suddenly they could get some insight Xinto why we get so engrossed with this stuff and why we may get so Xirritable when they want us to run out to store right in the middle of a X20 minute furball with a MIG on our tail. X XThe ART of the KILL is packaged in a oversized box roughly 30"x18"x3" Xand should appear in software stores soon, or, order direct from XSpectrum Holobyte. X X X---------------------------------------- X Larry Bain SAM?..what SA......... X Mt. View CA X X- -- X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 59 ]] END-of-issue059 echo x - issue060 sed 's/^X//' >issue060 << 'END-of-issue060' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I60 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 60 X Thu Oct 14 05:56:54 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Time Compression and Campaign kbl@lillo.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM X Tornado Campaigns att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net X SIM-CON #3: More New Products lmbain@netcom.com (Larry Bain) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: kbl@lillo.ICO.OLIVETTI.COM XSubject: Time Compression and Campaign X XHi again, X XI'm still mailing the Tornado time compressor to anybody who is Xinterested. X XA note on timecompression: As pointed out (even in the falcon3 Xgroup) "real men don't use timecompression" ;-) I agree, which Xis why I put the "warning" in TTC.TXT. I like Tornado, and its Xalways interesting to see what happens when you finally Xfly your mission after creating a task, deciding what on Xearth (warzone) to go for and laying down clever Xentry/egress routes. I would'nt dream of spoiling it Xby timecompression (what? reduce the 10 minutes of action Xafter 1 hour of planning?). However, "real men don't Xfly on a PC, they use real planes". So, if you plan to Xexplore Tornado by: X X- trying out different task combinations to determine the impact X on the enemy, X X- planning "mission impossible" just to show that it can be done, X X- assigning your wingmen different tasks to determine the X limitations of their AI, X X- watching what "the other guys are doing", X X- flying a lot of ADV (at command level) to appreciate X enemy strike strategies (just look at them going for X your fave airport), X X- doing whatever comes to mind to spot weaknesses and strong X points in the AI, X Xand you don't want to spend your life at TTG > 1 minute over well known Xterritory, a timecompressor comes in handy. I do use *a lot of time* Xon Tornado, but I also want to go flying, sky diving, skiing, scuba diving, Xfree climbing, partying, ... (the frame rate is unbeatable :-). XAnd, if you know the weak spots of Tornado you just avoid them to Xmake the whole thing even more interesting and realistic. So, lets Xfind out what Tornado can and can't do. THEN let's do a campaign Xin real-time, rebooting when we are KIA ;-) X X XA note on command level campaigns: X XHave you had any success making your pals go CAP in the ADV's? XEven if the "blues" have air superiority, my ADV's get creamed in Xno time. It's a shame, as I would like them to protect my airports. XIf you have any suggestions please let me know. For now I Xeither fly the ADV's myself, or leave them at home. X XSee you, XKenneth X X------------------------------- X XFrom: att!ihlpf!opus@uunet.uu.net XSubject: Tornado Campaigns X XAfter completing a level one and level two campaign in warzone one, I decided XI was finally ready to take on a command level campaign. Amazingly enough, XI won it on the first try! This is not to say that I didn't have to replay Xsome missions several times, however. :^) X XMy main strategy was to conduct a balanced attack. I tried to hit targets Xof every type on every mission. Since enemy anti-aircraft vehicles did not Xseem to affect the computer pilots too much, used each wingman's three attack Xwaypoints on "real" targets. If I put an emphasis on anything, it was Xon POL sites. X XFor daylight missions, I liked to take up an ADV and see if I could prevent Xsome of the enemy attacks. I had only partial success with this. I did Xthem during daylight so I'd have a smaller chance of ramming into a mountain Xwhile trying to run away from air-to-air missiles. I really wish I had Xthe latest patch which makes the RWR beep when a missile gets close. It Xwould make them so much easier to spoof. X XAt one point I was given a decapitation target, and thought the war was Xas good as won. Not so. I hit it, yet the campaign raged on. In the Xlast stages, I worked on reducing the enemy's one remaining main depot Xto rubble. At no time did the enemy have fewer than three operational Xairfields, yet I often was down to just one or two. This was mostly a Xconsequence of my neglecting to reduce his ground-based air defenses-- XJP.233 runs were practically suicidal! X XWhen I finally won the campaign, the stupid program aborted, saying it Xcouldn't find some digitized picture. Has anyone else encountered this Xproblem? It also happened when I won the level two campaign--what an Xanticlimax! X XI then started a command campaign in warzone 2 to see if it was much Xdifferent. The biggest thing I noticed was that the level of intelligence XI was able to gather was very poor throughout the war, even though I took Xout every priority communication site given to me. Also, my airbases Xseemed to start out a lot closer to the action, with the enemy troops Xactually overrunning a couple of my bases at one point. X XThere was one dark moment when I had three damaged bases and the fourth Xwas CAPTURED! I figured the war was lost at that point even though I Xhad a sizable morale advantage and both supply levels were zero, but no. XI was able to take off from the captured airfield (amidst a hail of AAA Xfire which started the instant I left the ground), but if I tried to Xland there again the debriefing said I'd landed at an enemy airbase and been Xcaptured. Replaying the mission, I directed all the planes to land at Xone of my damaged fields. All the computer pilots made it safely home, Xand after running wild in my ADV (I shot down every single enemy plane Xexcept two transports and a Hind) I made my approach to the heavily Xcratered runway. Somehow I got it down between craters while fighting a X20 knot crosswind. X XDo others also land at higher speeds when there's a crosswind? To get Xthe autopilot to do this, just down use full flaps or sweep the wings a Xbit if you want to get down really quickly. I learned this when I was Xforced to land with my wings fully swept battling a 25 knot crosswind--I Xhardly noticed it. X XAfter that mission, I had one operational runway and then there was still Xthe captured one. I quit the game since I had to do something else, and Xwhen I restarted it, the captured airbase was once again under my Xcontrol, and the enemy ground forces seemed to have been pushed back a bit! XThe situation report was unchanged. Very peculiar. X XAfter knocking out all the camouflaged sites remaining and taking out tons Xof bridges for no good reason, I finally won the campaign. This time I Xdid not get the error message about the missing digitized picture. X XSome things I learned over the course of these campaigns: X X- It's really tough to strafe ground targets at night. When doing so, it's X best to switch the front MFD to IR once you've designated a ToT, so you can X sort of see what you're doing. X- Overcast days are best when flying an ADV. You can then cruise over X enemy territory safe from SAMs. If they fire at you, just pop up into X or above the overcast and the missile will immediately lose lock. X- To make up for the lack of rear view, I would often set up my F1 exterior X view to look at the nose of my plane from below (hit F1 twice then rotate) X during daylight missions. Then, when running away from SAMs or AAMs, I'd X be able to tell how close they were so I'd know when to start evasive X maneuvering. X- When trying to dodge SAMs at low level, the auto-trim feature (keypad 5) X is extremely useful. Just disengage the autopilot, hit kp5, then bank X your plane. You'll lose altitude very slowly if at all. The important X thing is to keep the MFD on the map view so you'll know if you're about X to run into a hill. X- Both your Tornado IDS' and the enemy MiG-27s almost always get their X targets and almost never get shot down. This doesn't seem very realistic X to me. I'd say on average maybe 1/2 to 1 plane should be shot down per X mission, and there should be a good number of missed targets. I think X in the real world an 84% success rate would be judged pretty good. X XOne question for you Tornado veterans out there. In both campaigns, XI got to the point where the only remaining main communication node was Xin the upper left hand corner of the map. The problem was that there was Xnothing there to hit! X XRob Xopus@ihlpf.att.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: lmbain@netcom.com (Larry Bain) XSubject: SIM-CON #3: More New Products X X X XSIM-CON #3; More New Products X X Part 3 from a series of reports on: X X SIM-CON'93, the Combat Flight Simulator Convention. X X XThis will be a survey of some products that caught my attention, Xcertainly not a comprehensive list of the all products at the Xconvention. Additionally, most of these products were not newly released Xat the show, but they were all new to me (i.e. I hadn't ever had a Xhands-on with them before). I think most all of the products below were Xreleased within the last 6 months (or perhaps my employer hasn't let me Xout of my cave for longer than I thought). X X XUnreleased Products Previewed at SIM-CON: X X>> Flight Sim Toolkit << A Domark product that will allow custom design Xof aircraft and terrain for future flight sims. Runs under Windows. Much Xmore interactive than the Microsoft Flight Simulator Aircraft and XScenary Designer, light years ahead in usability. Looked neat for the X'experimental aircraft' designers. X X>> CH ?un-named? Flight Stick and ?un-named? Throttle Stick << Tom XVeloskey, product designer from CH, was demo-ing a prototype of their Xnext generation flight stick and programmable multi-function throttle Xcontroller stick. Looked very promising, and high quality. Expected Xout first half of next year? Hey CH, if you haven't decided on a product Xname yet, how about a project code name? We need a handle for the thing Xor we can't rumor monger about it. X X XReleased at SIM-CON: X X>> Super-VGA Harrier << by Domark: A new SVGA version of their popular XHarrier sim that marks the beginning of the Domark 'Advanced Sim- XSeries'. I was told second hand that this Series will inter-operate with Xother sims (similar to the Electronic Battlefield series) but that XDomark is planning to come out with ground based sims (i.e. tanks) to Xinteract with the Harrier (sounds very interesting, I hope its true). XGraphics were very nice and EXTREMELY smooth. I noticed that Captn. XShorter (the USMC Harrier Pilot) spent a lot of time flying this one so XI asked him what he thought. He said that it actually handled very much Xlike the real thing. He was disappointed that he couldn't watch his Xbombs impact (he hadn't discovered external views yet!) but he was very Ximpressed with its handling. One caution, SVGA resolution requires a XVESA LB or selected Windows accelerator video boards. X X>> ART of the KILL << by Spectrum Holobyte: This is the aerial dog Xfighting training manual & video that I have been raving about in my Xlast two posts. Refer to post subject: SIM-CON #2... for details. X X>> 6 Player Linkup Flight Simulator Headsets << by ONUR Ent. This is a Xrather ingenious communication setup allowing 'flights' of team players Xto communicate (and receive simulator sound) without drowning each Xother out when there are a lot of other teams all flying simultaneously Xin a large room. I'm not too familiar with the all configuration Xoptions but I believe that the system can also be used over phone lines X(at least for a couple of players). They were advertised for $99 a Xheadset and $99 for a 6 way control box. Because I'm not sure about Xa lot of this and because they are not distributed through any retailers yet, Xcontact Onur 6 Ent. at (410)676-5904 (Maryland) if what you want is the Xtruth. X X XRecently Released Products: X X>> Tornado << by Digital Integration. While I'm sure that a lot of you Xalready know this one inside and out, it was the first time I got to Xsee. Wow, I always thought that pounding that the mud was the boring Xpart but Tornado changed my mind. They had the patch for the dreaded XSAMs so now partial damage is a factor and ejection is more than a Xmental exercise. X X X>> Thrustmaster WCS II Throttle and Weapons Control << by TM: Big Leap XForward! for complexe flightsims (IMHO). Create and download button Xconfiguration files to map any single or multiple sequence of keyboard Xkeystrokes to any WCS II button OR FCS button (FCS runs through the WCS XII). Configure selected buttons to support multiple toggles (i.e. press Xonce, do alpha, press again do bravo, etc.). PLUS, includes a keyboard Xremap TSR that allows you to remap and program multiple toggles for any Xkey on the keyboard. Combine the WCS download configuration and this XTSR to allow indirect multiple toggle definitions for any stick button X(if you want to get THAT creative). Rocker switch on WCS II allows 3 X'sets' of remaps for all buttons thereby creating 3 modes of button Xdefinitions. Supports both analog and digital (keyboard mapped) Xthrottle. X XWCS II documentation was pretty poor but supposedly new documentation Xwill be available within weeks. Also, will only work with a Thrustmaster XFCS (or so I understand). WCS II does come with default configuration Xfiles for most popular combat flight sims. X X(I used to be a Thrustmaster owner, and then I wasn't, but this product Xreally got me intrigued. A rumor that TM has a new source for pots and Xseveral testimonials from other convention attendees about TM standing Xbehind their product persuaded me to become a TM customer again (the X'convention floor' prices also helped). I've since put a few hours in Xwringing out my new sticks and so far everything has worked exactly as Xadvertised. I tip my hat to TM for leading the way in affordable flight Xsim accessory innovation, yet again.) X X X>> SVGA Air Warriors << by AW fans!: Konami wasn't there but some AW Xfans were and you could hear the staccato of the Spitfires as they lit Xup those mags. Rumor was that there was some mis-communication between Xthe SIM-CON organizers and Konami but I hope to see a Konami display Xnext year. X X X>> CH Flightstick Pro << by CH: Nice smooth action quality product just Xas one would expect from CH. I had actually expected to buy one at the Xshow but I couldn't pass up the reprogramble features of the WCS II. XRumor was that CH may have a piece of reprogramable h/w to inline with Xtheir Flightstick Pro in the near future, but it was too early to Xpromise any dates. X X X>> Thrustmaster Full Mock Up Cockpits << by TM: Product of the year for Xthe 'Smarter Image Catalog', IMHO. Complete wrap around cockpits with XF16 style reclining seats and real toggle switches for systems controls. XThe 1vs1 finals were flown from these 2 babies. X XSo many toys, so little time. X X X- 'Missile-Bait' Bain X X X X X X X X X X- -- X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 60 ]] END-of-issue060 echo x - issue068 sed 's/^X//' >issue068 << 'END-of-issue068' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XDate: Sat, 30 Oct 93 19:25 PDT XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I68 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 68 X Sat Oct 30 18:31:04 PDT 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X North American Tornado 1.0c patch a jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: jeff@neon.rain.com XSubject: North American Tornado 1.0c patch available! X X XIt's in the archives on onion.rain.com in /pub/hitech-sim/ X Xpatches/na-torn-1.0c.txt - README for na-torn-1.0c.zip Xpatches/na-torn-1.0c.zip - Patch for the North American version of Tornado X XThanks to Camber@debug.cuc.ab.ca for sending it to me. X XI've installed it, and verified that it works, but haven't looked at it Xany more than that yet.. X XLater, X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 68 ]] END-of-issue068 echo x - issue069 sed 's/^X//' >issue069 << 'END-of-issue069' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I69 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 69 X Mon Nov 1 23:23:23 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado US Patch (Version 1.0C) Ava Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X Flight sim idea for DI MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X unzip.exe jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) XSubject: Tornado US Patch (Version 1.0C) Available X XTornado (Version 1.0C) has been released. I downloaded it Saturday from XCompuserve. Here's the info from the README file: X X*************************************************************************** X* TORNADO * X* version 1.0C * X* Read Me text file * X* 10/26/93 * X*************************************************************************** X XThis version of TORNADO incorporates many fixes to previously reported Xproblems and several enhancements to existing features. X XTo use this patch, copy all of the files on this disk into your TORNADO Xdirectory. For example, type "COPY B:*.* C:\TORNADO" if your TORNADO Xprogram is on drive C in a directory named "TORNADO." Then type "PATCH" Xfrom your TORNADO directory. The update program will then replace or Xmodify the necessary files to update your copy of TORNADO to version 1.0C. X XYou can identify version 1.0C by looking for the version number in the Xlower right-hand corner of the TORNADO loading screen. In addition, the Xfile creation date for AMP.EXE will be changed to 10-21-93. X XPROGRAM FIXES X------------- XProblems with sounds either dropping out or playing through the Ad Lib Xdriver have been corrected. X XAn improved joystick calibration routine has been added. X XTORNADO is now compatible with the US Robotics 14.4 modem for Xhead-to-head play. X XFlightplans modified in Campaign can now be saved. X XIn earlier versions of TORNADO, your plane had to come to a complete stop Xon a runway before you could end a mission successfully. A ground speed Xof less than 30 knots is now sufficient. X XIn earlier versions of TORNADO, enemy fighters were able to perform Xexceptional barrel roll maneuvers in order to stay behind your Tornado. XThis has been corrected; enemy plane maneuvers are now more realistic. X XThe lack of a promotion at the end of Campaign Level 1 has been corrected. X XAir victories being credited improperly in the pilot log has been Xcorrected. X XPROGRAM ENHANCEMENTS X-------------------- XThe "Review" feature now has full mouse control through both Demo and XOptions. X XRudder pedals are supported. X XThe Explore Mode is now fixed to daytime. X XA digital readout had been added to the fuel gauge. X XA Dogfight Mode has been added. If you press the fire button, the Xair-to-air radar and weapons will be activated if weapons were not armed. X XWhen you turn on the air-to-air radar, it will range automatically with Xrespect to the currently selected weapon. X XThe drone view now shows aircraft designations. X XSAMs are no longer always fatal, but more damage will be received. X XA proximity alarm sounds when SAMs are very close. X XThe ZRK-Romb SAM launcher has been changed to a ZREK-BD Strela 10. X XMEMORY MANAGERS X--------------- XQEMM (versions 7.0 and later) features DOS-UP which links upper and base Xmemory. This may cause insufficient memory error messages with TORNADO. XWe suggest that you turn off the DOS-UP feature by inserting "REM" in front Xof that line in your CONFIG.SYS file. You will lose approximately 3K of XRAM, but TORNADO will now run. X X386MAX (versions 7.0 and later) has a similar feature called EXTRADOS. XThis may also cause insufficient memory error messages with TORNADO. We Xsuggest that you turn off the EXTRADOS feature by inserting "REM" in front Xof the line that relocates your COMMAND.COM file. This will allow TORNADO Xto run. X XGENERAL INFORMATION X------------------- XTORNADO is not compatible with version 9.0 of the Microsoft Mouse driver. X XTo turn off the warning lights, press "*" (asterisk) on the numeric keypad. X"Shift+8" changes the sound selection. X XThe install program cannot automatically make a boot disk if Stacker or XDoubleSpace is used on your hard drive. You must manually insert the Xappropriate commands in your CONFIG.SYS file. Refer to the documentation Xfor those products for detailed information. X XIf you have a Pro Audio Spectrum sound card, you should choose the "Ad XLib" driver in the Preferences screen. X XWeapons not used on a mission are not returned to your airfield inventory. X XIn Simulator mission #12, you start slightly northeast of waypoint C, Xnot heading north between waypoints D and E. X X-- X X Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh? X Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117 X XLigneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous Xstructure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU XSubject: Flight sim idea for DI X XHi all, X XI recall back someone posted a note from DI asking for ideas on Xfuture flight sims. I went through Gary Coopers (not the dead one) XInternet address list and could not find DI's internet address. XCould someone please repost that address (or forward the following) X XMy idea would be a flight sim called Air Show! We have discussed in the Xpast the idea in general, and many have staged their own air show at XNellis in F3/Mig :-) How bout a sim dedicated to and airshow theme Xwith hi end flight models and ground graphics (which DI seems to really Xhave a handle on). X XSome feature might be: X X-Pylon racing in a Mustang. X My favorite. Hearing that Merlin scream as you race around the pylons X at 200 knts just 30 feet off the ground. A modem or netork connection X would allow you to fly with, say, 6 other planes. Or they could do X the thing Chuck Yeagers Air Trainer did and let you save races so X you could race yourself.! X X-Stunt flying in a plane of your choice. X Climb into a Pitts Special and go at it! All the special effects X (smoke etc) and a recorder. Again, two or more over a net or X serila connection would allow for multiplayer teams! X X-High Performance jet team flying. X Ala Blue Angels, Thunder Birds, Snow Birds, etc. Self explanatory. X Again, a net of serila connection. X X-Parachuting??? X Now this is visionary :-0 hehe It would be cool it you could be a X member of the Golden Knights and execute jump formations and X precision landings just in front of the pits. X X-Beer drinking and sausage eating. X kinda hard to model in a sim. But it is one of my favorite things to X at an airshow. Think of the digitized belches comin through your X sound card! :-) X XThat is all I can think of right at the moment. Something like this could be Xa real adventure to fly with alot of replayability. Best of all, those Xwith loud consciences would not feel bad after laying down a Xbarage of CBU's over those poor, mal armed enemy troops. Thats is, Xyou don't have to kill in this one to have a good time. Not that I mind Xsending an explosive laden radar quided missile down someone's throat Xonce in a while. hehe X XAgain, if someone has DI's address I would appreciate it. X XScott "off to work" in WV XMorgan@wvugeo.wvnet.edu X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jeff@neon.rain.com XSubject: unzip.exe X X XI've added the following to the hitech-sim archives. It's Xthe version of unzip that I know works on the North American Xversion of the tornado patch. X Xprogram/utils/unzip.exe - DOS Unzip utility X XLater, X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 69 ]] END-of-issue069 echo x - issue070 sed 's/^X//' >issue070 << 'END-of-issue070' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I70 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 70 X Thu Nov 4 18:07:07 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: DI's email address "W.Renger" X * Air Warrior patches available via jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: "W.Renger" XSubject: Re: DI's email address X X[ Again, PLEASE edit the subject lines. Thanks, -Jeff] X X>From: MORGAN@WVUGEO.WVNET.EDU X>Subject: Flight sim idea for DI X> X>I recall back someone posted a note from DI asking for ideas on X>future flight sims. I went through Gary Coopers (not the dead one) X>Internet address list and could not find DI's internet address. X>Could someone please repost that address (or forward the following) X XAccording to the documentation which came with my Tornado their internet- Xaddress is: digint@cix.compulink.co.uk X XGood idea, by the way, this Flight-show thing. X XHope this helps you out X XWillem-Jan 'Engine' Renger X _-_ _-_ XRenger@frw.ruu.nl <0> <0> X ^ X O X X "He who sees first, lives longest" X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jeff@neon.rain.com XSubject: * Air Warrior patches available via ftp * X X XThanks to the folks at Kesmai, I have permission to have Air Warrior Xpatches available for FTP. This includes artwork, as long as it's X*not* everything required for the standalone game. X XThe SVGA version 1.13 upgrade is available on onion.rain.com in X/pub/hitech-sim/patches/svga113.exe X XLater, X X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 70 ]] END-of-issue070 echo x - issue071 sed 's/^X//' >issue071 << 'END-of-issue071' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I71 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 71 X Sun Nov 7 09:02:59 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X PC Air Warrior Front-end on cactus. Mark Kuebeler XSubject: PC Air Warrior Front-end on cactus.org X X X XI've uploaded the PC version of the Air Warrior starter kit to Xcactus.org (/pub/genie/airwar/airpc209.zip). This is the VGA version Xof the AW front-end that can be downloaded for free from GEnie. If Xyou have an account on GEnie, this front-end can be used in the Xmultiplayer game online. X XPC Air Warrior does not have all the neat features of SVGA Air XWarrior, and only runs in chunky 320x200X256 VGA mode (as opposed to XSVGA AW, which runs in 640x480x256 mode). However, the flight models Xare the same, and the PC version has an offline flight mode, so you Xcan try out the flight characteristics of the various planes. It can Xalso be used to playback films made with AW's flight recorder, and the Xbenchmark film FURBALL.CAM is included for your viewing pleasure. XI've included three screenshots (in GIF format) from FURBALL.CAM when Xplayed back using SVGA Air Warrior. The archive also includes three Xtext files that are usually downloaded from GEnie along with the Xstarter kits: the AW Pilot's Guide, AW Rules of Conduct, and a Xdescription of the AW Training Academy. X XTo run this software you will need at least 600K available Xconventional memory. Soundblaster is supported, but you need to have Xat least 384K of memory confiugred as extended memory in order for the Xdigitized sound effects to work (these are the same sound effects that Xare used in the SVGA version, btw). X X X X X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Rob Vallis XSubject: Tornado Calibration? X XHello Everyone X This new patch for the North American version of Tornado is great, especially Xthe SAM fix. One big HOWEVER though: Just how do I access their new stick/ Xrudder/throttle calibration routine. As it is now, the thing is just about Xunflyable. The readme file mentions a 'new' routine, but I just cannot find Xthe thing. X XThanks XRobert Vallis X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Mark Kuebeler XSubject: SVGA Air Warrior - H2H Opponents Wanted X XThe following is a list of Air Warriors on GEnie who are interested in Xfinding local H2H opponents for SVGA Air Warrior. Most of them do not Xhave direct Internet access, but can send and receive Internet mail Xthrough GEnie. X XEven if you're only interested in finding out more about Air Warrior, a Xplayer in your local area is well worth talking to! X X GEnie Mail XArea Code City/State (Internet Mail) AW Handle X---------------------------------------------------------------------- X 201 West Caldwell, NJ K.IRITSKY Bebop X (k.iritsky@genie.geis.com) X X 205 Mobile, AL D.BALMOS Pyro X (d.balmos@genie.geis.com) X X 216 Cleveland, OH J.KERR1 Night Train X (j.kerr1@genie.geis.com) X X 401 Barrington, R.I. P.WILLIAMS4 Jazzman X (a825199@pan.mc.ti.com) X X 409 College Station, TX M.KUEBELER Cookie X (mkk9316@tamsun.tamu.edu) X X 503 Portland, OR JBEADLES Mudcat X (jeff@neon.rain.com) X X 504 Baton Rouge, LA B.GRESENS Outlaw X (b.gresens@genie.geis.com) X X 513 Dayton, OH B.CARROLL3 BlackJack X (b.carrol3@genie.geis.com) X X 813 Tampa, FL G.HEMNESS Baby New Year X (g.hemness@genie.geis.com) X X====================================================================== X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 71 ]] END-of-issue071 echo x - issue072 sed 's/^X//' >issue072 << 'END-of-issue072' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I72 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 72 X Thu Nov 11 06:59:37 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Tornado joystick calibration Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Desert Storm rumour "W.Renger" X PAS 16 soundcard mystery "W.Renger" X SVGA Air Warrior patch 1.13 waynec@csr.UVic.CA (Wayne Chapeski X ACM 4.0 knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X SVGA Air Warrior - WW1 Cockpit Art Mark Kuebeler This new patch for the North American version of Tornado is great, especially X>the SAM fix. One big HOWEVER though: Just how do I access their new stick/ X>rudder/throttle calibration routine. As it is now, the thing is just about X>unflyable. The readme file mentions a 'new' routine, but I just cannot find X>the thing. X XJust go into the set-up screen (the one where you can set all the various Xdefaults for sound / detail and stick. Click on the joystick setting Xto suit your set-up 1-stick/2-stick/FCS/Flightstick-pro the system Xwill pop up a little window with arrows and so on and prompt through Xthe usual top-left/bottom-right/centre dance. X X X Andrew X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "W.Renger" XSubject: Desert Storm rumour X XI heard somewhere (don't ask where? review? magazine?) that DI is planning Xto bring out a mission disk for Tornado with Gulfwar missions (JP233 or XScud attacks?) Does anyone know if this is true, or when it will be Xreleased? If it's true, I hope they make something of the colour schemes of Xthe planes and landscape.... X X [ Another case of a signature longer than the article that was edited. -Jeff] X__ XWillem-Jan 'Engine' Renger Renger@frw.ruu.nl X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "W.Renger" XSubject: PAS 16 soundcard mystery X XI have a problem with my soundcard. I have a Pro Audio Spectrum X16 bitter and until now I experienced a somewhat 'flat' sound while Xflying the Tornado. The engine sounded somewhat like a gas leak or Xsomething. But yesterday I tried changing DMA and IRQ settings in my Xconfig.sys and got fabulous explosions, engine sound and..... a lot of Xdistortion, a sort of ticking sound. And sometimes my card even locks up Xfor a few seconds. X XIs this a prototype of an DMA conflict? Does any of you use a PAS 16? XJust for the record, I did NOT disable my 'old' joystick port on my Xmulti I/O board. Could this be the source of the problem? XTo complete the picture I also have a fax-modem card installed. This XIRQ/DMA stuff is really tricky and sticky! X XI you have had the same problem, or have otherwise suggestions, please Xlet me know; I have the unpleasant feeling I got used to a sound which can Xbe improved dramatically (as I described above) X X"Fly low, hit hard!" X_______________________________________________________________________ XWillem-Jan 'Engine' Renger X _-_ _-_ XRenger@frw.ruu.nl <0> <0> X ^ X O X X "He who sees first, lives longest" X_______________________________________________________________________ X X------------------------------- X XFrom: waynec@csr.UVic.CA (Wayne Chapeskie) XSubject: SVGA Air Warrior patch 1.13 X XThe SVGA Air Warrior patch 1.13 from Genie which was recently placed on Xonion.rain.com (svga113.exe) doesn't seem to properly upgrade from Xversion 1.00 (which is what the retail version I bought last weekend was). XThe displays seem to be a bit broken up when using the VESA video Xdriver with an S3 video board. 1.00 seemed to work fine, and I Xdid remember to run SEEHEAR to configure the video and sound drivers. X XThe svga113.txt file says that the patch will patch version 1.07 to X1.13; is there an intermediate patch available anywhere on the Internet Xto patch 1.00 to 1.07? X XThanks, XWayne Chapeskie University of Victoria Xwaynec@csr.UVic.CA Victoria, B.C., Canada X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: ACM 4.0 X XI just compiled and installed ACM 4.0 and tried it. It's much improved Xover the previous version that I tried (2.4?). It more responsive and Xcontrols and views are better. Anyway, if anyone else has obtained this X(ftp.x.org:contrib/acm-4.0.tar.Z) and would like to dogfight sometime, Xlet me know. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Mark Kuebeler XSubject: SVGA Air Warrior - WW1 Cockpit Art X XI've uploaded updated versions of my WW1 cockpit art for SVGA Air XWarrior. The art files have been recompiled using a newer version of Xthe art editor that fixes a bug in the forward+up view of WW1 artwork X(this view would cause the screen to become glitched up). The files Xare available by FTP from cactus.org: X X /pub/genie/airwar/dr1_cook.zip X /pub/genie/airwar/dviicook.zip X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 72 ]] END-of-issue072 echo x - issue073 sed 's/^X//' >issue073 << 'END-of-issue073' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I73 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 73 X Sun Nov 14 20:02:54 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: SVGA Air Warrior patch 1.13 waynec@csr.UVic.CA (Wayne Chapeski X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: waynec@csr.UVic.CA (Wayne Chapeskie) XSubject: Re: SVGA Air Warrior patch 1.13 X XRe: Problem with Air Warrior patch 1.13 and VESA video drivers. XIf you are using a VESA video board or driver, after running SEEHEAR Xto configure video and sound, you may need to run VESACFG.EXE to Xfix the VESA driver. The intermediate patch is not necessary. X XThanks go to for this info. X XWayne Chapeskie University of Victoria Xwaynec@csr.UVic.CA Victoria, B.C., Canada X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 73 ]] END-of-issue073 echo x - issue074 sed 's/^X//' >issue074 << 'END-of-issue074' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I74 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 74 X Tue Nov 16 18:06:41 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado: Gulf War Disk/key problem Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Tornado: Gulf War Disk/key problem X XHi! X X> heard somewhere (don't ask where? review? magazine?) that DI is planning X>to bring out a mission disk for Tornado with Gulfwar missions (JP233 or X>Scud attacks?) Does anyone know if this is true, or when it will be X>released? If it's true, I hope they make something of the colour schemes of X>the planes and landscape.... X XIn a german magazine (PC games Spezial: Simulationen) I actually saw Xsome tiny screenshots of it: yes, the Tornados are painted in "desert Xcolors", the sand looks like sand, the mosques have minarettes X(sp?).. X XThe short article didn't mention many details, here is all I can Xremember: X Xexpected to be released in Dec. (before X-mas, I guess), and I think Xthey meant december this year! Xprice: about 70 deutschmarks. X X---- XAnother topic: X XHow many of you have ejected (CTRL E) accidently trying to switch Xoff the radar (CTRL R)? Well, I did it a couple of times, especially Xduring night missions when it's dark (half :-), because night Xmissions are best if you turn the light down in your room). X XI wonder whether there is a TSR to remap keys, I would like to use XCTRL ESC instead of CTRL E (purists might want ALT , Xso you have to take both your hands off the controls before Xejecting out of the cockpit :-) . X XMaybe this would be a nice feature for future versions of the XTornado Time Compressor ttc ?? X Xso long XHeinz-Bernd X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 74 ]] END-of-issue074 echo x - issue075 sed 's/^X//' >issue075 << 'END-of-issue075' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I75 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 75 X Thu Nov 18 06:31:19 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X CTRL-R/CTRL-E Problem, and Other St Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Mu X D.I. 'membership' "W.Renger" X Gulf War Disk and future DI project Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) XSubject: CTRL-R/CTRL-E Problem, and Other Stuff X XHeinz-Bernd writes: X X: In a german magazine (PC games Spezial: Simulationen) I actually saw X: some tiny screenshots of it: yes, the Tornados are painted in "desert X: colors", the sand looks like sand, the mosques have minarettes X: (sp?).. X: X: The short article didn't mention many details, here is all I can X: remember: X: X: expected to be released in Dec. (before X-mas, I guess), and I think X: they meant december this year! X: price: about 70 deutschmarks. X XGood to see that DI is adding to the realism by changing the colours of the XTornado. In addition, finally, we'll have "real" enemies, instead of the XOrange forces. X X: Another topic: X: X: How many of you have ejected (CTRL E) accidently trying to switch X: off the radar (CTRL R)? Well, I did it a couple of times, especially X: during night missions when it's dark (half :-), because night X: missions are best if you turn the light down in your room). X XThis is EXACTLY what happened to me last night! After successfully Xcompleting a Level Two Campaign mission deep in Orange territory, I was being Xchased by an Orange fighter. I had had my radar on (pressed the damn R key Xby mistake!) and I of course wanted to turn it off. Next thing I know, Xeverything went dark--and I KNEW which keys I had pressed mistakenly! This Xmistake was doubly frustrating because I was repeating this particular Xmission for the second time. X XSigh. X X: I wonder whether there is a TSR to remap keys, I would like to use X: CTRL ESC instead of CTRL E (purists might want ALT , X: so you have to take both your hands off the controls before X: ejecting out of the cockpit :-) . X XIf you have a WCS II, you could do this. The WCS II comes with some handy Xkeymapping software. Maybe I'll give it a try myself and let you know how it Xturns out. X XBy the way, I successfully completed a Level One Campaign yesterday. The Xcampaign lasted until 13:00 in the fifth day, and although the Orange forces Xwere mostly stronger than mine, their morale went below 10 on the final Xmission--giving me the victory and a promotion. X XI found this strategy to be successful: bomb the tasked site, but assign Xanother site as a target--a civilian/industrial target. Also, dump the A-A Xmissile and take along 6 ALARM's. Any chance you get, nuke a radar site. X XI've now started a Level Two Campaign. Does anyone have any suggestions on Xhow to handle this? I'm trying to do what I mentioned previously, although Xwith a twist. My six Tornados go out and nuke the assigned site, then Xseparate and nuke individual, low-risk civilian sites. We then rendez-vous Xand fly back to base. X XI'm only in the first day of the campaign, so I'm open to suggestions! :-) X XBy the way, a question: I lost two Tornados on one of my missions, and in Xthe mission afterward, I only had four Tornados at my disposal. Will the two Xbe replaced, or will my compatriots eventually all be lost, leaving me to Xhold back the Orange hordes by myself? X-- X X Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh? X Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117 X XLigneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous Xstructure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "W.Renger" XSubject: D.I. 'membership' X XI sent in the registration card for Tornado to Digital and got a letter Xthat i could become member of their 'select' customer club. But... they Xcharge you for about 8 UK pounds. Does anyone know is this 'membership' is Xworth the money? They offer discounts, posters, newsletters etc. XI'd like to know if anyone has eperience with this..... X_______________________________________________________________________ XWillem-Jan 'Engine' Renger X _-_ _-_ XRenger@frw.ruu.nl <0> <0> X ^ X O X X "He who sees first, lives longest" X_______________________________________________________________________ X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Gulf War Disk and future DI projects X X X X(Aplogies if this duplicates an earlier post - I don't recall seeing it Xso I think it may have gone into the bit-bucket) X X>> heard somewhere (don't ask where? review? magazine?) that DI is planning X>>to bring out a mission disk for Tornado with Gulfwar missions (JP233 or X>>Scud attacks?) Does anyone know if this is true, or when it will be X>>released? If it's true, I hope they make something of the colour schemes of X>>the planes and landscape.... X> X>In a german magazine (PC games Spezial: Simulationen) I actually saw X>some tiny screenshots of it: yes, the Tornados are painted in "desert X>colors", the sand looks like sand, the mosques have minarettes X>(sp?).. X XI can confirm this from talking to the DI people. They're still working on Xit at present though so an Xmas launch would seem to be getting awful close. X XBasically the mission disk will comprise a new war-zone which is, in effect, Xa kind of ``squeezed'' version of the real geography. It is squeezed for Xtwo reasons: X X1. to put more interesting bits into it X X2. to fit it into the Tornado engines approx. 100 mile by 100 mile co-ordinate Xsystem. X XAll the ground object graphics and a lot of the aircraft graphics have been Xredone to suit the new scenario. There aren't anticipated to be any Xmajor improvements to the game engine itself. X X XIn the longer term. Work has basically started on the sucessor to Tornado. XThe basic plan is to aim for an evolutionary rather than revolutionary Ximprovement on the Tornado engine in a relatively short time-frame (i.e. X1-2 rather than 2-3 years). The reason for this being that no-one at DI Xreally feels up to a repeat of the ``bet the company'' situation they Xended up in with Tornado. The comments were to the effect that X``you can do without holidays and week-ends for months on end once but Xnot a second time''. X XThe aim is to port over the Tornado graphics engine to run in 32bit Xnative 386 code and then enhance the result with whatever goodies time Xpermits. Probably: more polygons and shading plus removal of a lot of Xthe limitations forced on Tornadio due to memory-shortages. The plan is Xto launch two games in parallel using the same underlying engine- one Xand F16 or other agile fighter sim, the other a ``Tornado-II''. X XAccording to the DI people ``Tornado-II'' is already considerably further Xadvanced than Falcon-4. I.e. they already have all of two or three Xhundred lines of code :-) X X X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 75 ]] END-of-issue075 echo x - issue076 sed 's/^X//' >issue076 << 'END-of-issue076' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I76 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 76 X Fri Nov 19 19:02:12 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Level 1 campaign tactics "W.Renger" X TFX & Fleet Defender? Wilson Chiu XSubject: Re: Level 1 campaign tactics X X> Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) wrote: X>Subject: ..........and Other Stuff X X>By the way, I successfully completed a Level One Campaign yesterday. The X>campaign lasted until 13:00 in the fifth day, and although the Orange forces X>were mostly stronger than mine, their morale went below 10 on the final X>mission--giving me the victory and a promotion. X> X>I found this strategy to be successful: bomb the tasked site, but assign X>another site as a target--a civilian/industrial target. Also, dump the A-A X>missile and take along 6 ALARM's. Any chance you get, nuke a radar site. X XI agree with Joel that this is an excellent way of winning a level 1 Xcampaign. Most of the time I choose bridges or Road inclines as secondary Xtargets. And indeed, leave those AIM's at home since most of the time Xyou're dead meat anyway when meeting an enemy airplane unless you get the Xhell out of there. Instead you'd better burn AA or SAM units a lot (in Xdirect mode as was posted earlier) X XAnother trick: don't take off in the direction the Mission Planner Xsuggests as default: most of the time it leads the way (unnecessarily!!) Xover enemy AA or SAM's which can easily be avoided by taking off in the Xother direction: plan a safe route instead (and keep an eye on the weather Xforecast in case of a heavy crosswind; then it can be dangerous to change Xtake-off and landing parameters.) X XBut I share the curiosity for Level II tactics.... X______________________________________________________________________ XWillem-Jan 'Engine' Renger X _-_ _-_ XRenger@frw.ruu.nl <0> <0> X ^ X O X X "He who sees first, lives longest" X_______________________________________________________________________ X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Wilson Chiu XSubject: TFX & Fleet Defender? X XHi there, X XAny latest info on TFX or Fleet Defender? I thought TFX should have Xbeen released about now, and I hear that Fleet Defender is still a little Xway from completion. X X>From what I've heard, TFX seems to be a great game. X XWils X X--------------------------------------------------------------------- XWilson S.C. Chiu wils@uk.ac.soton X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X Vision, Speech & Signal Processing X Elecronics & Computer Sci. X Univ. of Southampton X Southampton SO9 5NH X--------------------------------------------------------------------- X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Mark Kuebeler XSubject: Are ya good at flight sims? X X X SVGA AIR WARRIOR - H2H OPPONENTS WANTED X XThe following is a list of Air Warriors on GEnie who are interested in Xfinding local H2H opponents for SVGA Air Warrior. Most of them do not Xhave direct Internet access, but can send and receive Internet mail Xthrough GEnie. X XEven if you're only interested in finding out more about Air Warrior, a Xplayer in your local area is well worth talking to! X X GEnie Mail XArea Code City/State (Internet Mail) AW Handle X---------------------------------------------------------------------- X 201 West Caldwell, NJ K.IRITSKY Bebop X (k.iritsky@genie.geis.com) X X 205 Mobile, AL D.BALMOS Pyro X (d.balmos@genie.geis.com) X X 216 Cleveland, OH J.KERR1 Night Train X (j.kerr1@genie.geis.com) X X 216 Cleveland, OH J.OISHI Jade X (j.oishi@genie.geis.com) X X 401 Barrington, RI P.WILLIAMS4 Jazzman X (a825199@pan.mc.ti.com) X X 404 Rosewell, GA K.HACKER DeadDuck X (k.hacker@genie.geis.com) X X 409 College Station, TX M.KUEBELER Cookie X (mkk9316@tamsun.tamu.edu) X X 410 Randallstown, MD R.BUCHANAN14 Bogieman X (r.buchanan14@genie.geis.com) X X 410 Randallstown, MD M.FLETCHER6 Broadsword X (m.fletcher6@genie.geis.com) X X 503 Portland, OR JBEADLES Mudcat X (jeff@neon.rain.com) X X 504 Baton Rouge, LA B.GRESENS Outlaw X (b.gresens@genie.geis.com) X X 513 Dayton, OH B.CARROLL3 BlackJack X (b.carrol3@genie.geis.com) X X 808 Honolulu, HI R.SNYDER20 Habu X (n921w4@pnet16.cts.com) X X 808 Kauai, HI G.HALE MadDuck X (g.hale@genie.geis.com) X X 813 Tampa, FL G.HEMNESS Baby New Year X (g.hemness@genie.geis.com) X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: RE: CTRL-R/CTRL-E Problem, and Other Stuff X X-------- XHI! X XJoel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) wrote in V1 , I75: X X>: I wonder whether there is a TSR to remap keys, I would like to use X>: CTRL ESC instead of CTRL E X X>If you have a WCS II, you could do this. The WCS II comes with some handy X>keymapping software. X XToo bad, I don't have a WCS II, but it would be interesting to if Xworks with TORNADO. Any other program (public domain, and small!) Xavailable? Otherwise I'll have to learn about TSR, keyboard Xinterrupts, scancodes etc and write one on my own, because I really Xdon't like ejecting this way. X X> By the way, I successfully completed a Level One Campaign yesterday. X XCongratulations! X X>I've now started a Level Two Campaign. Does anyone have any suggestions on X>how to handle this? I'm trying to do what I mentioned previously, although X>with a twist. My six Tornados go out and nuke the assigned site, then X>separate and nuke individual, low-risk civilian sites. We then rendez-vous X>and fly back to base. X XBomb low-risks civilian sites??? Hey, the blue forces are supposed Xto be the good guys, aren't they :-) X XI tried a different strategy: Forget about the computer generated Xflight plans! XFeel free to do whatever you like: Assign only two Tornados to Xattack the given target site, or even don't attack it at all. XI often organized the flightplan into three independent flights of two XTornados. I did this after I felt that 6 Tornados attacking one Xsite are more easily located and attacked by an enemy CAP X(if there is one near the target area) than 3 groups of 2 Tornados Xeach operating in different areas of the war zone. X XAnd I (almost) never bombed civilian sites!! Still I managed to win Xwithin 3 or 4 days. X XSo long, XHeinz-Bernd X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: Are ya good at flight sims? X X> Even if you're only interested in finding out more about Air Warrior, a X> player in your local area is well worth talking to! X XHe he. Just like a drug pusher peddling his wares. Try it, you'll like Xit. It makes you feel good. X XI agree with Mark. Having someone local to just show you what it's Xlike is worth the visit. It's an experience you have to see to Xbelieve, though it's still not the same as actually getting your hands Xon the stick and trying to kill someone while watching 4 other Xdirections for one of the other 10 or more planes in the area doing the Xsame thing to you. Then there's the thrill of diving down on an Xunsuspecting opponent hoping he doesn't see you before you close into Xguns range and waste his sorry tail, or trying to escape a furball and Xrun for home with little to no fuel and ammo, or buddies yelling for Xhelp or screaming in delight over the radio after their victory. X XJim "Red Beard" Knutson | n | XGenie: J.KNUTSON ----(*)==(:)==(*)---- X#5111, 666th FS Internet Daemons Check Six! Xknutson@mcc.com X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 76 ]] END-of-issue076 echo x - issue077 sed 's/^X//' >issue077 << 'END-of-issue077' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I77 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 77 X Tue Nov 23 22:18:21 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Suggested Improvements to Tornado darrin vallis XSubject: Suggested Improvements to Tornado X XDear Folks at D.I. X X I purchased Tornado several months ago, and by now think it is the best Xground attack flight sim on the market. Since loading the version 1.0c from Xinternet's hitech-sim@onion.rain.com, I can say it has only been improved, Xespecially the SAM model upgrade. (it is north american version 1.0c) X X There are a few things which take away from the game's 'feel' and actual Xfunctionality. I hope you can include them in the next release. X X1) There is *NO* modelling of air turbulence. At altitudes of 200ft AGL, the X ride of a Tornado is sometimes enough to shake your kidneys loose! A simple X random turbulence routine would really add to the feel of flying this plane. X Right now, it's just too smooth in flight. X X2) PLEASE include support in the code for an analog throttle. This is a must! X It worked somewhat in version 1.0, but there was no calibration routine. The X version 1.0c upgrade does not recognize a throttle at all. X X3) Selecting the weapons package is currently a clumsy task. Most times I fly X without autopilot in order to dodge SAMs etc, and actually just to enjoy the X game. When you are in a 6g turn, 10 seconds from the target, there is no way X to check exactly what weapons are armed! Switching to the back seat gets you X very dead, very fast. Even to fire ALARMS at targets of opportunity while X inbound on the primary target, you either guess what's armed or go to the X back seat again. X Solution: Let the pilot's MFD show the back seat weapons screen, along X with all it's other functions (radar, nav, etc.) This would not involve X major changes to the code. X X 4) The Tornado is essentially a strategic or tatcical strike aircraft. X It excels at this role. Few aircraft can equal it. Why then is the X communications model based on a head to head mode? I know of quite a X few Tornado players who don't *want* to fly the Tornado as an ADV X interceptor. They like the sim for it's outstanding strike missions. X Please consider this for the next major upgrade: Retain the comms X capability, but *not* head to head. Instead, let one computer run as X the pilot's screen and the other computer run as the back-seater. This X would add a whole new dimension to a great flight sim. It would be an X *outstanding* two player game, with no interruptions for either player. X Currently, I play this sim 90% of the time with another person as pilot X and myself as weapons/navigation officer. With only one screen it is a X constant struggle switching between two positions in the heat of battle. X Just the fact that F15-III Strike Eagle includes this feature has made me X consider buying it, even though the mission planning, terrain modelling, X enemy intelligence and overall 'feel' are reportedly far inferior to X your product. X The whole point is that Panavia's Tornado was conceived as two seat X multi-role attack aircraft. Including this two computer comms mode in X an upgrade would definitely bring the simulation closer to what Tornado X really is. X X Thank you for your time. Please consider having one of your personnel X subscribe to the internet mailing list hitech-sim@onion.rain.com. There is X a wealth of feedback there every day on Tornado, and other flight sims as X well. X X XDarrin Vallis Xvallis@hawking.nes.dnd.ca X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) XSubject: Level 2 Tactics, etc. X XWillem-Han Renger writes: X X: Another trick: don't take off in the direction the Mission Planner X: suggests as default: most of the time it leads the way (unnecessarily!!) X: over enemy AA or SAM's which can easily be avoided by taking off in the X: other direction: plan a safe route instead (and keep an eye on the weather X: forecast in case of a heavy crosswind; then it can be dangerous to change X: take-off and landing parameters.) X X XHere's an alternative to the above: I always take off into the wind, Xaccording to the Mission Planner, but I alter the waypoints to avoid the AA's Xand SAM's which I want to avoid. I add whatever waypoints I think are Xnecessary and change the parameters (altitude, weaponry, etc.) whenever Xnecessary. X XRemember, the Mission Planner only provides a skeleton plan. It's up to the Xpilot to plan the mission in depth. X---------------------------------------------------------------------------- X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein writes (in reference to the subject RE: CTRL-R/CTRL-E XProblem, and Other Stuff): X X: Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca (Joel Murray) wrote in V1 , I75: X: X: Bomb low-risks civilian sites??? Hey, the blue forces are supposed X: to be the good guys, aren't they :-) X XHey, all's fair in love and war! :-) X X: I tried a different strategy: Forget about the computer generated X: flight plans! X: Feel free to do whatever you like: Assign only two Tornados to X: attack the given target site, or even don't attack it at all. X: I often organized the flightplan into three independent flights of two X: Tornados. I did this after I felt that 6 Tornados attacking one X: site are more easily located and attacked by an enemy CAP X: (if there is one near the target area) than 3 groups of 2 Tornados X: each operating in different areas of the war zone. X: X: And I (almost) never bombed civilian sites!! Still I managed to win X: within 3 or 4 days. X XAfter playing a Level 2 Campaign (into its 3rd day), I always greatly alter Xthe flight plans. I initially take the assigned target but I alter the Xapproaches of my fellow Tornado pilots to the targets. That is, we never all Xattack in the same direction. After the attack, I assign different target to Xeach of the 3 or 5 other Tornados. X XI haven't had too many problems with enemy CAP: I just alter the flight plan Xto avoid CAP's as much as possible. If not possible, I take my chances, and Xif I do get detected, I accelerate to 602 knots, set the ride level to 300 or X400 feet, and run away. So far, the strategy seems to have worked for me. X XBy the way, as I mentioned above, I'm into the 3rd day of my campaign. I've Xhit the Orange forces and their civilians (!) so hard their morale is down to X0. I wonder how much longer they can hold out.... X XHeh, heh, heh, I am looking forward to a Command campaign soon! :-) X-- X X Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh? X Joel_Murray@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117 X XLigneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous Xstructure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: RE: CTRL-R/CTRL-E Problem X XHi! X XHaving repeatedly ejected out of my TORNADO Xby hitting CTRL-E instead of CTRL-R, I decided to write a Xsmall memory resident program to remap the ejection Xkey. X XWhat a mess! You can't imagine how many bugs fit into Xa single 300 bytes long asm. program. All those interrupt Xhandlers, segment registers, etc... X XFinally I managed to write two programs, XTKB and TKB_WTTC that will assign the cockpit functions of the XE key to the Scroll-Lock key. X XThere are, however, several problems involved: X XTKB will do the job if you don't want to use the popular XTTC (TORNADO time compression) utility. X XIf you want to run TTC, you must load TTC first and then load XTKB_WTTC. X XThe major problem is that TKB was only tested on my configuration, Xand I'm doubtful it will work with other versions of TORNADO than Xversion 1.0b (that's the latest european version). X XTo find out if it works on other peoples computers and XTORNADO versions, I would like to invite you to beta-test this Xprogram. Send mail to X X eggenste@boole.informatik.uni-dortmund.de X Xto obtain a copy of this tiny program, complete with documentation X:-) and source code for the curious. XI also invite people who have more experience in writing TSRs to Xsuggest improvements. X XI think it would be best to include an optional E->Scroll LOCK Xfeature into the brilliant TTC program written by XKenneth "ICEMAN" Larsen, what do you think, Kenneth? X X XBecause I have only little (0) experience in writing Xmemory resident programs, I'd rather not make TKM public in its Xcurrent beta-test version. By keeping track of the people who use Xit, I make sure I can apologize to everyone personally later. X Xso long X XHeinz-Bernd X X X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 77 ]] END-of-issue077 echo x - issue078 sed 's/^X//' >issue078 << 'END-of-issue078' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I78 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 78 X Thu Nov 25 11:52:19 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Suggested Improvements to Torna Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Re: suggested improvements to Torna "W.Renger" X bomb field at Nellis farcher@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU (Eric Archer X Re: bomb field at Nellis knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Suggested Improvements to Tornado X XDarrin Vallis writes: X X>1) There is *NO* modelling of air turbulence. At altitudes of 200ft AGL, the X> ride of a Tornado is sometimes enough to shake your kidneys loose! A simple X> random turbulence routine would really add to the feel of flying this plane. X> Right now, it's just too smooth in flight. X XNice idea! I'll mention this to DI next time I bump into them. X X>2) PLEASE include support in the code for an analog throttle. This is a must! X> It worked somewhat in version 1.0, but there was no calibration routine. The X> version 1.0c upgrade does not recognize a throttle at all. X XI've already mentioned this to DI. They said they'd look into it... Xmaybe the next patch will have something. X X>3) Selecting the weapons package is currently a clumsy task. X> Solution: Let the pilot's MFD show the back seat weapons screen, along X> with all it's other functions (radar, nav, etc.) This would not involve X> major changes to the code. X XI'll ask about this too... X X> 4) The Tornado is essentially a strategic or tatcical strike aircraft. X> It excels at this role. Few aircraft can equal it. Why then is the X> communications model based on a head to head mode? I know of quite a X> few Tornado players who don't *want* to fly the Tornado as an ADV X> interceptor. They like the sim for it's outstanding strike missions. X> Please consider this for the next major upgrade: Retain the comms X> capability, but *not* head to head. X> Instead, let one computer run as X> the pilot's screen and the other computer run as the back-seater. X>... X XThis is something DI said they looked into in a *lot* of detail when I Xasked them about. Basically they said they'd come to the conclusion Xthat although it *sounded* nice but worked out a real bore for the Xback-seater when implemented. X XThe basic problem was that the game engine doesn't simulate Xnearly enough of what a backseater would deal with in real life. X X- Correcting for drift in the inertial nav. by picking out known X landmarks on radar. Without a much more sophisticated ground radar model X this would be pointlessly easy/trivial. X X- Ground target acquistion / management of air-to-air radar and related X avionics. Same problem as above. Without a really fancy radar/ avionics X model there are no buttons to twiddle. X X- Weapons system management (bomb ripple, laser des., etc). Again not enough X world detail to make this meaningfully difficult and mostly once X per mission' stuff. X X- Navigation / plotting threats as they become know / fuel management. X X Dull and pretty irrelevant without boring hour-long round-trips X and simulated AWACS/ground control transmissions. X X- 2nd pair of eyes in ACM X X Implies some kind of pad-lock view and much much better X enemy interceptor AI'' and smart wing-men too if there's to be X anything meaningful to watch. X X>... X> The whole point is that Panavia's Tornado was conceived as two seat X> multi-role attack aircraft. Including this two computer comms mode in X> an upgrade would definitely bring the simulation closer to what Tornado X> really is. X XIn short this stuff definately won't happen in the current Tornado. On Xthe other hand Tornado-II (time-scale: 2 years or so) might very well Xhave enough refinements to make it worth doing. They're definately very Xkeen to do multi-pilot co-operative flying modes. X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "W.Renger" XSubject: Re: suggested improvements to Tornado X XDarrin vallis (among other things) wrote: X>Subject: Suggested Improvements to Tornado X X[ Included stuff deleted -Jeff ] X X(This is only part of the stuff Darrin wrote, edited by myself, please Xdon't flame me for this..) X XI'd like to add a few remarks on possible improvements. I wonder if others Xshare these thoughts with me. X XI would enjoy more action before taking-off and after landing the plane. XFor example, taxiing to the proper runway from a hangar, asking for Xtower clearance (tower reply?), and some of the same routine after a Xflight. I recall many situations in Combat Pilot (on my atari ST) when the Xtension of the flight ebbed away standing still in the hangar, with Xfeelings of excitement up to that moment. These options could perhaps Xbe chosen in the Preferences menu to serve both the 'quickstart' type Xpilots and the reality freaks. X XSome form of communication with the control tower or with other aircraft Xwould be greatly appreciated, just to give you the feeling your not all by Xyourself, but flying in a team of six tornado's. Whether this should be Xtext on screen or spoken text I can't say (it all has to fit in a computer Xafter all..) X XW.J.Renger@frw.ruu.nl (Willem-Jan, not Willem-Han!) X X------------------------------- X XFrom: farcher@sdcc3.UCSD.EDU (Eric Archer) XSubject: bomb field at Nellis X X[ You'll probably have better luck getting an answer from someone on the X Falcon3 mailing list, but it's worth a shot here. --Jeff] X X I'm hoping that someone out there can help me. I want to practice Xbomb runs in Falcon and MiG-29, and I'd like to use the bombing range Xin Red Flag. My problem is that I can't seem to find it, and I've deleted Xthe .RFM missions that came with Falcon and MiG-29 that use it. I think Xthere are two or three, and if I remember correctly, they are somewhere in Xthe northwest, but I don't know exactly where. X X If someone still has these missions, could you either e-mail me the Xcoordinates of the ranges, or send me the missions themselves. (I'm Xusing Falcon 3.02 and MiG-29 1.01.1) Thanks!! X X...eric X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@mcc.com (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Re: bomb field at Nellis X XTo find the target ranges, go to the map, put the cursor over Xthe target (zero) icon and zoom. Do this continually until you get Xclose enough to see it. Zoom back out. Put a waypoint there. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@mcc.com --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!milano!knutson + XWk: (512) 338-3362 Check Six! X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 78 ]] END-of-issue078 echo x - issue079 sed 's/^X//' >issue079 << 'END-of-issue079' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I79 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 79 X Mon Nov 29 09:17:38 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Flight sim oldies. Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) X Thrustmaster Questions darrin vallis X Re: Tornado and loft delivery Joerg Stenger XSubject: Flight sim oldies. X XHi! X XWhenever I see a dicount rate, old flight sim, I can't resist to buy Xit. X XIt's stunning to see the technological development of sims in the Xpast few years. X XThe oldest in my small collection is "JET" by subLogic, which Xsimulates the F-16 and F-18 (late 80s). Is this the Xfather of combat flight simulators? X XI would like to learn about other important "historical" flight sims Xfor the PC. X XP.S. Today I bought "Flight of the Intruder" by SH (re-distributed Xby Digital Integration), for less than 20 deutschmarks. XIt came with a > 200 page manual that seems to contain Xa lot of interesting stuff. And if you have a PC AT 80286 > 12 MHz, Xyou can even use a soundcard :-). X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Keith Pyle XSubject: Tornado and loft delivery X XI've only recently started playing Tornado and have completed almost Xall of the Simulation, Training, and WZ1 Combat Mission missions. The Xone area that consistently gives me problems is loft delivery. Yes, XI've read the manual more than once - several times in fact. I think I Xhave the mechanics of the operation, but my success rate is probably Xonly 25-30%. Typically, the bombs overshoot the target by what appears Xto be a few hundred feet. X XI've looked at the archives and don't really see anything that addresses Xthis problem. I'm running v1.0C. X XHere's what I've been doing: (1) start the run into the target at 550 Xon autopilot with a ride height of 200 ft., (2) fire an ALARM in Xindirect mode as soon as in range of the waypoint if there is SAM or XAAA coverage, (3) arm the bomb package and continue on autopilot until XI'm nearly to the pull up point, then disengage the autopilot, (4) at Xthe pull up point, pull back hard until the aircraft datum indicator is Xgetting close to the apex marker, then mostly unload the stick to slow Xthe change in angle of ascent, (5) hold down the commit button and Xcompletely unload the stick as the apex marker begins to enter the Xdatum indicator and the countdown clock nears the release point, and X(6) when the release occurs, get out Dodge! X XI would appreciate any suggestions on modifying my procedure or hints Xon dealing with this problem. Since the release is automatic, there Xdoesn't seem to be a way of tweaking the release time if you expect Xthis problem to occur. Also, does the computation of the release point Xinclude a compensation for wind? X XOne thing I've seen that isn't in the manual: when you have the energy Xand angle to release the bombs, a solid circle appears around the apex Xmarker if you aren't holding down the commit button (yes, I've been Xexperimenting). X XA final question: are there any good books on Tornado as there are for XFalcon? X XThanks. X X- -- XKeith Pyle XSystems/Network Engineering XMotorola Somerset PowerPC Design Center Xkeith@ibmoto.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: darrin vallis XSubject: Thrustmaster Questions X XHello everyone: X X Would some informed 'voice-from-the-net' be able to answer a couple of Xquestions about the Thrustmaster joystick? I have never seen the answers Xhere on the list yet: X X 1) When you move the coolie hat or press a button on the TM, how is this X info sent to the computer? Is the analog joystick port somehow multi- X -plexed, or does the stick send a scan code to the keyboard port. Some X other way....? X X 2) On some games, the coolie hat is remapped to a new set of functions by X pressing some button on the stick (pinkie button for instance). Instead X of four functions you now get eight. How is this accomplished? X X 3) Does the CH Flightstick Pro implement these things in the same way? X X X Thanks for the time X X Darrin Vallis X vallis@hawking.nes.dnd.ca X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Kris Ong XSubject: Re: Thrustmaster Questions X X| X| Hello everyone: X| X| Would some informed 'voice-from-the-net' be able to answer a couple of X| questions about the Thrustmaster joystick? I have never seen the answers X| here on the list yet: X| X| 1) When you move the coolie hat or press a button on the TM, how is this X| info sent to the computer? Is the analog joystick port somehow multi- X| -plexed, or does the stick send a scan code to the keyboard port. Some X| other way....? X XLike what jeff said... they use one of the axis at certain degrees. X X| 2) On some games, the coolie hat is remapped to a new set of functions by X| pressing some button on the stick (pinkie button for instance). Instead X| of four functions you now get eight. How is this accomplished? X XI have no idea.. jeff might be right. =) X X| 3) Does the CH Flightstick Pro implement these things in the same way? X| X XNope. CH uses button combos. I don't know the exact procedure but I think Xit's something like hat right is button1 & button 2 pressed simultaneously.. XI may not be exact but you get the idea.. X XKris. X X- -- Xkrismon@quack.kfu.com An eye for an eye will make the X whole world blind. XProdigy: GRTV13B -MLK Jr. X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: Tornado and loft delivery X XOn Fri, 26 Nov 1993, Keith Pyle wrote: X X> [...]but my success rate is probably X> only 25-30%. Typically, the bombs overshoot the target by what appears X> to be a few hundred feet. X XHmm, I guess my success rate is about 50%. That's why I don't use that Xtechnique very often ;-) X> X>[...] X> Here's what I've been doing: (1) start the run into the target at 550 X> on autopilot with a ride height of 200 ft., (2) fire an ALARM in X> indirect mode as soon as in range of the waypoint if there is SAM or X> AAA coverage, X XIMO that's a waste of Your recources. The Loft-deliver is thought for Xbombing the target without getting in SAM range. The SAM radar will Xaquire you as soon as You do the zoom-climb but if You 'dig the dust' Xright after the release the radar will -or at least should ;-) -loose XYou (if You have a proper egress flight-plan). I don't think that the Xtime is long enough for the ALARM to aquire the SAM site as a target. X(I'm not sure though, do You get SAM-site-kills with that method?) X X> (3) arm the bomb package and continue on autopilot until X> I'm nearly to the pull up point, then disengage the autopilot, (4) at X> the pull up point, pull back hard until the aircraft datum indicator is X> getting close to the apex marker, then mostly unload the stick to slow X> the change in angle of ascent, (5) hold down the commit button and X> completely unload the stick as the apex marker begins to enter the X> datum indicator and the countdown clock nears the release point, and X> (6) when the release occurs, get out Dodge! X XRight "to the book" ;-) I'm doing the same only that I use the keyboard Xas the "release-button" because I have too much fear that I mistakely Xmove the stick during the final phase. After the release I press 'n' X(next wypt) and engage auto-pilot. X X> [...]Also, does the computation of the release point X> include a compensation for wind? X XI don't think so. IMO the computation itself is a small miracle, regarding Xthe distance and speed those unguided bombs fly (even with a hit-rate of X25%!). I know, it's "just a bit dynamics" but... X X> A final question: are there any good books on Tornado as there are for X> Falcon? X XGood question! Anybody out there who can answer? X X> X> Thanks. > > -- > Keith Pyle > Systems/Network Engineering > Motorola XSomerset PowerPC Design Center > keith@ibmoto.com X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: ThrustMaster X XThis seems to be first "cross-posting" to both lists so I send my $0.02 Xto both ;-) X XI think the remapping of the buttons only works if You also have the WCSII Xbut I might be wrong. Anyway, here is the connection scheme for the FCS/ XFCS Pro and the WCSII: X XKeyboard--->|-------|--->Keyboard-port at the computer X | WCSII | XFCS(Pro)--->|-------|--->Joystick-port at the computer X XThe joy-port has to be fully connected, i.e. you must be able to connect Xit to two 'normal' sticks via an Y-cable. X XWith the WCSII you have two alternatives for the hat: X 1) You use the hat as analog device, then inputs from the head are routed X through the y-axis of the 2nd stick. X Of course You can only use the digital throttle then, i.e. moving the X WCS produces a series of characters; in F3 it's a series of '+' and '-'. X X 2) You use the hat as digital device. You have to programm the appropriate X keystrokes then, eg. 'BTN HU 3' (button hat up -> Front view). X That gives You an analog throttle, i.e. the the movements of the WCS X are routed directely through the y-channel of the 2nd stick. X X(3) You also have the possibilty to set both to digital. X XWith the WCSII comes a TSR that allows You to remap all buttons during Xthe game by pressing a before defined key, e.g. F12. The TSR then remaps Xthe keystrokes to some other characters, e.g. You press 'e' on the keyboard Xbut the character output is 'r'. Of course You must have set the hat to X'digital' if You want to remap it. X XI hope that clears up things a bit ;-) X XI would like to add a few lines about the FCS/WCSII combination as input Xdevices for flight-sims. XIMO there's nothing comparable available at the moment. Without using the Xabove mentioned remap-TSR You have the ability to program 3 times 6 various Xfunctions only to the WCS-buttons; plus 3 times 3 functions if You have an XFCS; plus 3 times 4 functions if You set the hat of the FCS to digital. XI'm just writing a map-file for Tornado and I think when it's ready I won't Xneed to touch the keyboard anymore! (Of course You have to learn what button Xis what for in what rocker-position, life is hard ;-) X XA further big 'plus' for ThrustMaster is their outstanding customer support. XThey answer not only e-mail but also questions in the NewsNet (c.s.i.p.g.f-s). XI never saw a company answer to questions in a NewsGroup and even registered Xusers seem to have problems to get support from e.g. SH ( what's the last Xstatus, Scott? (yes, You in WV ;-)) X XNo, I'm not working for TM, I'm just a very confident customer, who wished Xthat more companies would have such a support. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 79 ]] END-of-issue079 echo x - issue080 sed 's/^X//' >issue080 << 'END-of-issue080' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I80 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 80 X Fri Dec 3 00:07:58 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado bits and pieces Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X Flight sim oldies jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X Re: Suggested Improvements to Torna Keith Pyle X Re: Tornado and loft delivery bbrown@gandalf.ca (Bruce Brown) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Tornado bits and pieces X X XLatest bits and pieces from DI X XFor those of you wondering why wingmen's JP233 strikes never seem to Xhit... X X>The drone JP233 hits do not register as "other Tornados hits" because there X>are too many crater positions to store. However, the damage done IS accounted X>for in the war model in command / campaign. X XWhats going to be in the Desert Strom add-on... X X> The key features of the Desert Storm add-on are:- X> X>- New flying area with 18 new missions (plus command and campaign) X>- Many new ground objects (oilfields, pipelines etc.) in fact most ground X>objects have been changed X>- new aircraft and military vehicles ( + digitised pics ) X>- 8 new airfields X>- 60 miles of fortified defences X>- improved ground force modelling X>- improved counter air effectiveness X XIt looks like the Desert Storm add-on revision of Tornado will probably Xbe the last (bar bug-fixes). To quote: ``we've reached the stage Xwhere we need to move on to the next project now ..'' X XI should be uploading the euro 1.0c revsion over the next week (once Xagain many thanks to Kevin at DI for volunteering mail me the patches). XFinally, in recognition of services above and beyond the call etc Xetc.... a free plug on the hitech-sim :-) X XIf you're looking for an Xmas stocking filler DI have just the thing! A Xbaby chopper sim based on the Tornado rendering engine! Built for the XRoyal Navy for use when recruiting: land an EH101 on the back of a Xfrigate in all weathers, seas etc etc. Retailing for seven pounds or Xless at a computer store near you. X XJust the thing for the Tornado loony in your life... or, alternatively, Xjust the thing to distract your young cousins who're hell-bent on X``improving'' Command level Tornado campaign when they visit you this XChristmas. X XIt is entirely possible that a member of British Royal family may have Xplayed this game before standing around saying ``Jolly Good'' a lot Xat some Navy get-together. X X X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca XSubject: Flight sim oldies X X X The oldest "combat" flight sim for a personal computer that I know of Xis subLogic's Flight Simulator (ie Flight Sim I), which, at least on an XApple ][, featured dropping bombs on things. I can't remember clearly Xif you had to put it into "war mode" and also faced enemy fighters; this Xmay not have happened until their Flight Sim II came out, which certainly X(on a C-64) had a "WWI" area where you could drop bombs and "dogfight" Xusing the teeny FS I world as an arena. Jet, when it came out, was way Xahead of both of these. 8) X XNASA and the aircraft industry was doing computerized flight simulation Xin the 1960's; I think some of it involved cockpits with video (usually Xin the case I know of generated by flying a TV camera over a terrain board - XI recall this in use for moon lander landing practice....) X XJames Sterrett Xjjsterre@acs.ucalgary.ca X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Keith Pyle XSubject: Re: Suggested Improvements to Tornado X XIn prior issues of the digest, there has been some discussion of suggestions Xfor Tornado. Here are some of my comments after finishing my first level X1 campaign: X X1) I agree that the head to head option in v1.0c is fairly worthless. XI, too, would like to see cooperative flying with both two aircraft and Xpilot WSO capabilities. I understand that DI thinks the present back Xseat role is too limited, but then, I've got a ten year old who hangs Xover my shoulder wishing he could get in the game. The pilot role is a Xbit beyond him right now, but he could handle the back seat. So, don't Xdiscount the idea of enabling the front/back seat modem play right away X- think what DI could do for encouraging family togetherness - "Hey Xson, let's go blow up some command bunkers!" "Yeah, and we can nuke Xthat industrial site on the way back!" X X2) I would like to see expanded information on mission results for Xother aircraft in your flight. In fact, it would be nice for it to be Xbroken down just as for your own aircraft. For instance, in a level 2 Xcampaign, something like this would be nice instead of the "Other XTornado Hits": X XAircraft B: 1 HAS X 1 Strela X RWR damaged by AAA X Repair time 0:20 XAircraft C: Missing in action, last known position xxxxx,yyyyy XAircraft D: 1 Bunker X Missing in action, last known position xxxxx,yyyyy XAircraft E: 1 Military building X Right engine needs replacing X Diverted to Allied 2 X Repair time 1:00 X XWhile this clearly isn't the type of mission result you would want to Xsee, it would tell you a lot about what happened and would be more Xconsistent with what debriefings might provide. X XI do think it would be appropriate to retain the "Other Tornado Hits" for Xaircraft other than those in your flight. X X3) In a similar sense, it would be interesting to see additional Xinformation at the theatre level assesments. For instance, X X- estimated accuracy of intelligence (this would go down if we haven't Xknocked out their comm centers, if the weather has hindered remote Xsensing, etc.) X X- some bits of intelligence info, which might be correct depending on Xthe above point, such as "Orange forces are expected to shift SAM coverage Xaway from Enemy 1 to Enemy 2" (Would this be a trap to lure me into Xattacking Enemy 1 or is there something important going on at Enemy 2?), Xor "Destroyed hardened ammo dump at xxxxx,yyyyy believed to have held XSAMs for defense of Enemy 3" (Should I attack Enemy 3 now?) X X- summary of losses for both sides, perhaps with estimates of resupply X X-- XKeith Pyle XSystems/Network Engineering XMotorola Somerset PowerPC Design Center Xkeith@ibmoto.com X X------------------------------- X XFrom: bbrown@gandalf.ca (Bruce Brown) XSubject: Re: Tornado and loft delivery X X X I too have had a low success rate on loft delivery, about 35-40 %. X X My technique, though is the cowardly one... X - Select loft delivery for targets that are near hills, and have X heavy protection from SAMs. X - Set the flight plan to approach the site from the blind side of X the hill. This might take considerable warping of an existing X flight plan. X - Set the turning-point to target to give you at least 60 seconds X to target (TTG > 60). This is in case you want some more fun X with indirect ALARMs. X - Just after turning at the turning-point to target, launch an X ALARM, and switch to loft bombs. X - Approach the hill at a speed that gives you a pull-up point X fairly close to the hill ( this may require a few runs. After X you have done it a few times, it becomes very easy ). X - At the pull up point, follow the instructions in the manual X for delivery of the bombs. X - After release, make sure you are high enough to get painted X by the SAM radar, switch on ECM, roll over and turn-dive in X the direction of the next waypoint. X - If you are fast enough, the SAM radar disappears for a few X seconds from your RWR, as you drop behind the hill. You will X be repainted after a few seconds as you pass the perimeter of X the hill, but you should be vectoring away at full throttle X before the SAM is launched. X - Hit 'n', 'F7' and prepare to use evasive tactics in case of a X SAM launch. X FunFunFun. X - If the flightplan does NOT afford the protection of a hill, X CHOOSE ANOTHER DELIVERY method. (I'm a coward, I use retarded X bombs almost exclusively in poor weather, or laser-guided X bombs, in good weather.) X X Now, if I could only change views to follow the ALARM as it X loses support from the 'chute... X XOBquestion: Is there a way while in flight to see/follow any weapon X except the LAST weapon fired/launched??? If it is in the manual, X just give me a page number. If not, how about it, DI? X X BSquared X Xbbrown@gandalf.ca | The hurrier I go the behinder I get. X130 Colonnade Rd. S., | XNepean, Ontario +-------------------------------------- XCANADA K2E7M4 | Tel.: (613)723-6500 | Fax: (613)226-1717 X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 80 ]] END-of-issue080 echo x - issue081 sed 's/^X//' >issue081 << 'END-of-issue081' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I81 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 81 X Sun Dec 5 11:39:28 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado 1.0c bug "Juan A. Hermoso" XSubject: Tornado 1.0c bug X XHello, X X I have been playing Tornado since the time it was first released and I was Xvery glad it never locked up the computer neither showed any weird behaviour. XBut after upgrading to version 1.0c (american) I am getting random locks up Xevery now and then (mainly when playing CAP missions) and, the most annoying Xthing of all, I am unable to finish the level two campaign in zone 1 because Xwhenever I accomplish the day 3 at 00:53 mission and try to save the following Xmission plan the program halts and I find myself back in Dos. X X I have tried to change memory settings,stop using the Soundblaster and Xeven writing to SH people by e-mail, but none of this things helped (I didn't Xget any reply at all from SH :-(. X X So if anyone have got a similar problem and has solved it, please let me Xknow what's going on! X X Thanks in advance. X X XJuan A. Hermoso Xcernvm.cern.ch X X------------------------------- X XFrom: bbrown@gandalf.ca (Bruce Brown) XSubject: Re: Suggested Improvements to Tornado X X X I like Keith Pyle 's suggestions, and would like to go a little X further. I would like to be able to jump from plane to plane, X i.e.lead the group which is flying iron-hand, clearing out SAM sites X and AAA on the ingress route, then jumping the lead aircraft in the X group that will bomb the main target and secondary target, then jump X back to the iron-hand flight to clear SMAS and AAA on the egress X route. X XAND, if I B*E*G real hard, do you think that DI would listen to my X dream of a string of programs focusing on mud-movers? X Call it the 'Electronic Battlefield Interdiction' series, X or some-such marketing name. X example one: X - focus on the Italian campaign, with F6F, P47 and P51 X aircraft. Real scenarios of that campaign pushing the X German army back up to the Alps. This is a perfect X application of the Interdiction role, in a WW-II X setting. Include in the release a copy of the WW-II X documentary, 'Thunderbolt', which is an interesting X view of the interdiciton role in Italy. Sort of shows X the game players how-to-do-it (lot's of good gun X camera footage). This tape is a $7.00 item in local X stores. X example two: X - Korean war, interdiction, including a documentary X similar to the above. (Sorry, I am not familiar with X planes or documentaries for this era). X example three: X - Vietnam war. I know it's been done before, but to X tell you the truth, I think DI has proven that they X can do the terrain-graphics better than anyone else. X There are lot's of good quality documentaries for this X one. I have 2 featuring Randy Cunningham, either X of which would be quite acceptable. Maybe focus on X A-6 Intruder or the Thud, or F-4. X X - We are getting a Desert Storm add-on, which would X complete the series (sort of pushing the other X suggested scenarios into the role of 'pre-quels' X ( sorry for the ugly word). I don't suppose X that the Desert Storm package will include a video X tape of all that excellent news footage and other X video coverage. X X Sorry about the ranting, but I am just getting used to AOE, X and I find it hard to stomach the fact that a propeller X driven aircraft taking-off from a runway has choppier motion X and worse landscaping than Tornado has at 700 knots while X flying at 200 feet above the mud. Could you imagine the X Air Warrior planes in a Tornado landscape?? Awesome for X those wannabe flyers among us who have a fear of X heights . X X Bsquared. X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 81 ]] END-of-issue081 echo x - issue082 sed 's/^X//' >issue082 << 'END-of-issue082' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I82 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 82 X Thu Dec 9 06:25:11 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X TORNADO: Playing "Weather God" Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: TORNADO: Playing "Weather God" X XHi! XSome Tornadoholics have complained that the mission planner Xis not saving weather conditions like wind direction and Xvisibility correctly when exiting the mission planner and Xclicking the SAVE button in (command?) campaigns. XThat is, when you return to the mission planner to Xcomplete the mission, visibility and/or Xwind direction often will have changed, which often requires Xtedious changes to the flightplan/payload configuration. X XWas this corrected in version 1.0c? Anyway, it's not corrected Xin the european version 1.0b. X XI tried the following fix, which allows you to play X'weather god' in Tornadoland: X XBefore running TORNADO, append the two lines X X:Visibility X X Xto the end of the *.mis text file describing your next mission, using Xany text editor. X X can be 0 (clear), 1 (overcast), 2 (light fog) or 3 (thick fog). X XMission files for War Zone N are stored in the subdir. amp\map, Xcommand campaign mission files are named COMMxx.MIS, where x depends Xon the campaign chosen from the COMMAND menu (COMM11.MIS for the first). X XUnfortunately, you can't influence wind direction the same way. X XWind direction seems to be stored in the binary files COMMxx.DTA. XThe location of the two bytes defining the wind direction Xis not fixed but depends on the size of other records stored in the X*.DTA file (eg. flightplans), but it should be possible to write a Xlittle program that does the parsing. Unlike Tornado's log-files, Xthe dta-files are not protected by a checksum or similar mechanism, Xso it is possible to change the wind direction by manipulating the Xdta file, after a simple linear conversion from the familiar 360 degree Xformat to Tornados 9 bit wind direction format (send me a message if Xyou are interested in details). X XWARNING:Before you modify *.MIS or *.DTA files, please make a backup of X all modified files. X Anyway, making backups of *.MIS and *.DAT files is a good idea to X avoid file corruption destroying your ongoing campaigns. I included X the necessary copy commands in my tornado.bat batch file. X Xso long XHeinz-Bernd X X X X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: DI preferences query X X XA request from DI: do you have strong opinions about small dense vs. Xlarge sparse maps in flight simulators. (e.g. 200 x 200 vs 800 x 800 miles). XIf so, they'd like like to know to get a feeling for what the simulator Xbuying public prefers. X X Andrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Desert Storm Demo Disk X X XDear all, X XA little Xmas present from DI: a demo disk previewing the desert storm Xadd-in. Basically: just like the old Tornado demo except you Xget to see (some of?) the new Desert landscape and objects. X X XI've uploaded to pub/hitech-sim/incoming - jeff'll let you know where it Xhas come to find a permanent home. X X[ It's in /pub/hitech-sim/programs/tornado --Jeff ] X X Andrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Mark Kuebeler XSubject: SVGA AW Cockpit Art - Spad XIII X X XMy quick & dirty SVGA AW cockpit art for the Spad XIII is now Xavailable on cactus.org: X X /pub/genie/airwar/Art_contrib/spadcook.zip X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 82 ]] END-of-issue082 echo x - issue083 sed 's/^X//' >issue083 << 'END-of-issue083' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I83 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 83 X Mon Dec 13 06:22:43 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: DI request gsobala@tube.demon.co.uk (George So X TFX: Review Joerg Stenger X> From: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk X> Subject: DI preferences query X> X> X> A request from DI: do you have strong opinions about small dense vs. X> large sparse maps in flight simulators. (e.g. 200 x 200 vs 800 x 800 miles). X> If so, they'd like like to know to get a feeling for what the simulator X> buying public prefers. X> X> Andrew X> X XNo problem on this one. I like large dense maps. ;-) X XSeriously - I want the best compromise possible. X X---- X XGeorge Sobala X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: TFX: Review X XHi all, X XAfter 14 logged 'flight hours' I want to give you a review of TFX. X XI have to admit that I have some prejudices about flight-sims. In my Xopinion Falcon3 (from now on F3) and Tornado are the No. 1 on the flight- Xsim market; so I compare every new flight-sim with these two. Please hold Xthat in mind when you go on reading ;-) X XAs a sidenote I should quote and translate the first sentence from the Xintroduction of the german manual: 'TFX is a computer game, but it is also Xa flight-simulator.'. X XIn an attempt to be at least a bit objective, I'll give you an overview, Xwhat TFX offers and then add my personal opinion. X X XFirst the formalia: XMy system: 486DX33 (no-name) X 4 MB Ram X ET4000 Graphic card with 1MB video memory X (3dbench gives me 20.0 fps) X SoundBlaster 1.5 X ThrustMaster FCS & WCSII XTFX version: German (I haven't discovered any version number, neither X on the box, nor on the title screen) X XYou get with the box the 8 disks, a QRC, an installtion card and a manual - Xno maps as paperware like in Tornado or F3. X XTFX supports Thrustmasters FCS, WCSII (there is an .adv-file included) Xand rudder-pedals. X XYou can choose out of 5 theatres: Somalia, Columbia, Lybia, Yugoslavia X(Bosnia) and somewhere in the South Atlantic. X XDepending on the situation you fly one of the following aircrafts: X - EFA (Eurofighter 2000), X - F-117 A X - F-22. XAdditional in the game the following ACs and ground units are contained: X friendly ACs: Boing E3 Sentry (AWACS) X Boing CH 47D Chinhook (Chopper) X Lockheed C130 Hercules X hostile ACs: F-16 Fighting Falcon X Mig-21 Fishbed X MiG-29 Fulcrum X ground threats: SA-6, SA-7, Stinger, T-72, ZSU-24-4. X XYou can choose out of a huge amount of weapons: X AA missiles: various IR/radar missiles with ranges from 15km to 200km X AG: MK 82, various GBUs, AGM 65E (Maverik), AGM 84 (Harpoon) X Anti Airfield: JP 233, Durandal, AGM 109 X Anti Radiation: AGM 88, AGM 122A. X XIn TFX you can fly carrier based operations and you have mid-air-refulling. X XWhen you enter TFX you can choose between 'Arcade', 'Training', 'Simulator', X'Tour of duty', 'flash points' and 'UN Commander'. XI have been in Arcade, Simulator and Training so far; I also took a quick Xlook into the Commader section. Tour of duty and flash points are only Xavailable if you completed your training. X XArcade is similar to IA in F3, simulator is comparable with Tornado's one. XIn Training you have to complete 10 missions and I'm at mission 8 now. You Xcan't alter the missions' objectives, wayponits or theatres. You also can't Xleave the Training section, once you have entered. The only possibility to Xdo that is to choose a new pilot. X XThe cockpit is the same in all three aircrafts. You have 3 MFDs, a threat Xpaneel, some secondary displays and the HUD that has three different modes: Xair to air, air to ground and navigation. X XTFX has no modem capabilities and you have no wingmen. X XSo far the facts; all below are my own opinions. X XIn general I would say that TFX is full of nice little details but missing Xa good general concept. XIt contains all our wishes for Falcon 4 - like carrier-operations and mid-air Xrefulling- but it is far away from the strategic and overall impressions XI got from F3 and Torndo. X XSome of these details are: X - Awacs gives you direction, heading and height of the enemies X - when you are in bad weather lightening gives you a short flash in the X cockpit. X - the shadow on your instruments alters with your position to the sun X - If you have the G-effects set to 'realistic' you hear a very heavy X breathing when you black-/red-out. X XNow to the back-side. XOn the box and in the manual is written that TFX needs 4MB of ram; if you Xhaven't that it uses a 4MB swapfile. XI have 4MB but TFX still want's to have that swap-file. If I disable it the Xgame doesn't start and gives me a 'not enogh memory'. X XLike in Tornado you can choose the language in the configuration (french, Xgerman, english, etc.). I chose german but until now I haven't seen a single Xgerman line! All briefings are held in english. (Not that it would be Xessential for me but if I have the possibility to choose, I expect that it Xwould have some effect!) X XThe config program suggested that I use 'low' detail, and a 'simple' flight- Xmodel; 3dbench gives me 20.0 fps and I'm running Tornado and F3 smoothly at Xthe highest detail-level. In my opinion the graphics are comparable to XTornado's, even at the highest detail (so why that swap-flile? - Tornado Xdoesn't need one!) X XThe only way to use rudders is to have a RCS. There is no possibility to Xcontrol rudders just with the keyboard. X XI haven't managed to shoot my gun empty. It seems to have unlimeted bullets. XThe number of the remaining weapons isn't displayed on the HUD. X XIf you alter the setting in the 'Realism menue' (G-effects, wind, Xtemperature, etc.) the changes aren't stored permanetly, i.e. if you re-enter Xthe game, you have to change them again every time. XAdditional this menue is only available if you sit in the cockpit! X XTFX offers no padlock-view and I must admit that my SA is very poor in XA2A combat (althogh I have 22 logged air-kills). If you want to take a Xquick view e.g. to the right, your view first leaves the normal cockpit- Xview and then swings around as if you are turning your head. Some may say X'nice, like in reality' but this swinging costs time and time is precious Xin combat! X XThe radar in TFX covers 360 degrees and the only thing you can change is Xthe range of it (I love F3's HFR radar). X XIf your fuel gets low, a large 'Bingo' is spread over the HUD. The problem Xis that there is now way to turn it off. It's so big that it covers other Xinformation and especially on air-to-ground runs you can hardly see your Xtargets then. X XThe german manual is the poorest one I have ever seen. I will quote and Xtranslate again from the introduction section: X'[...] that's why this manual is a compact guide to the most important Xaspects of TFX. [...] but you will discover the most exciting aspects of XTFX in hours of gameplay by yourself'. X'compact'- ha! I have discovered 2 MFD modes that aren't mentioned in the Xmanual. There are no tactical advices. The section that deals with the Xmission planner only contains the explanation of the functions (which are Xvery limited) in a way like 'if you press button A, this and that will Xhappen'. Even from a 'compact' manual I expect at least a full coverage of Xall instruments! XIt's 'light-years' away from the excelent manual of Tornado. X XAs a summary I would like to say, that if you are expecting standards like Xin F3 or Tornado, don't get TFX, save your bucks for SH's F/A-18 or the XDesert Storm scenario for Tornado. XHowever, if you like those arcadish games, that deal with aircrafts and Xif you have a 486DX 2 VLB with 8MB, try TFX. X XAgain, I point out that all the above are my own opinion of the game. If Xyou have the chance to take a look on the game at your local stores, do Xit and decide by yourself if you like it. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@prg.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Euro 1.0c patch uploaded... X X XI've just uploaded the patch to bring the European release of Tornado Xup to revision 1.0c. The files are called X Xeuro-torn-1.0c.zip Xeuro-torn-1.0c.txt X XJeff will presumably move the from the incoming directory Xinto the patches directory /pub/hitech-sim/patches. X X[ Yup, done --Jeff ] X XThe major change over the 1.0b revision is the inclusion of the Xdefinitively debugged soundblaster driver. X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 83 ]] END-of-issue083 echo x - issue084 sed 's/^X//' >issue084 << 'END-of-issue084' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I84 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 84 X Sun Dec 19 22:39:17 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado Euro patch 1.0c Steve Keynton X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Steve Keynton XSubject: Tornado Euro patch 1.0c X XI tried to apply this patch today and when I ran update.exe I got the Xmessage X'5) Error: Renaming New Amp'. I got the very same message when I tried to Xuse the 1.0b patch and Tornado refused to work, I eventually gave up with Xit. Has anyone else seen this and got it to work? X XTa, X XSteve Keynton srk1@ucs.cam.ac.uk Tel: 0223 334682 XUniversity of Cambridge Fax: 0223 334679 XComputing Service XPembroke Street XCambridge XCB2 3QG .. and they that weave networks, shall be confounded (Isaiah 19:9) X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 84 ]] END-of-issue084 echo x - issue085 sed 's/^X//' >issue085 << 'END-of-issue085' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I85 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 85 X Tue Dec 21 06:43:44 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado's dsdemo HIETT@caer.uky.edu X Re: Tornado Euro patch 1.0c Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) , X XQ?: I have downloaded dsdemo.zip from onion.rain.com and cactus.org Xas well. And I'm havin' trouble. It unzips fine...it desires DOS5 Xso I restarted with actual DOS 5.0..then I noticed it wanted things Xin a sub-dir..so I made one and moved them. But then all shoulda' Xworked....drat, no execution. X XThis, from the readme. looks like a fun and playable demo of things Xto come. Has anyone got it to work yet? X Xcheck tires ! X XJohn K. Hiett X Xhiett@caer.uky.edu XINN = 89726 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Re: Tornado Euro patch 1.0c X XSteve Keynton wrote: X X>I tried to apply this patch today and when I ran update.exe I got the X>message X>'5) Error: Renaming New Amp'. I got the very same message when I tried to X>use the 1.0b patch and Tornado refused to work, I eventually gave up with X>it. Has anyone else seen this and got it to work? X XI think I ran into the same problem, until I noticed that you have Xto tell pkunzip (or unzip) to unpack the files of the ZIP archive Xinto the appropriate subdirectories. I think this is done with the X-D or -d switsch, but better check the readme-file of the patch or Xthe documentation of your unzip program. X XThe improvements of 1.0b over 1.0 are really worth it, especially Xthe warning you hear when a missile is close. Haven't tried 1.0c yet. X X XHave fun, XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 85 ]] END-of-issue085 echo x - issue086 sed 's/^X//' >issue086 << 'END-of-issue086' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I86 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 86 X Wed Dec 22 14:45:21 PST 1993 X Compilation copyright (C) 1993 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Read High Tech Sim. rogers@sol.instrumental.com (Bob Ro X Re: dsdemo /europatch 1.0c "W.Renger" X Re: Tornado's dsdemo Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) From the outside, a SIMNET M1 Abrams tank simulator is clearly not a Xtank. It looks like an oddly humped gray fiberglass shower-stall. The Xsimulator is, in fact, built by Jacuzzi from the same materials as a Xwhirlpool bath. Its interior, however, is designed to psycho-logically Xreplicate the basic tank experience, and it does. X XInside, the simulator is the proper shape and size for a tank's crew Xchamber. It makes all the proper sounds: the loud engine whine, the Xominous rumble of treads, the multi-ton coffee-grinder racket as the Xturret slews, the concussive thud of the main gun firing. It has the Xinstruments of a tank, though many of those controls are nonfunctional Xand only painted-on. There are no actual 40-pound high-explosive shells Xinside simulators, though the loader, by design, must still go through Xthe physical motions of cramming them into the cannon, with all the Xproper timing, proper footwork, and the proper clanks and thuds. X XA real M1 Abrams battle tank is a nightmarish vehicle. It weighs 70 Xtons. It's 26 feet long and 12 feet wide. It carries a 120-millimeter Xcannon that fires rounds that travel a mile-per-second: high-explosive Xshells, or armor-piercing uranium slugs. The M1 tank can climb obstacles Xthree feet high with no trouble, cross ditches eight feet wide with Xease, and roar down roads at 42 mph. It is an extremely lethal and Xfrightening machine that can kill anything it can see. X XIt is also a horrible place in which to die. The Abrams holds four men. XThree of them (the tank commander, the gunner, and the loader) ride in Xthe crew chamber which is about the size of a large bedroom closet. The Xtank commander sits on a swivel-seat with his knees at the upper back of Xthe gunner, who is crammed into a tiny ergonomic nook. The loader heaves Xshells into the butt of the 120-millimeter cannon, which juts like a Xdinosaur's rump into the turret cavity. The fourth man, the driver, lies Xon his back in a padded niche much the size and shape of a coffin. He Xsteers the tank with a pivoting pair of black rubber handles from a Xmetal post over his belly. He is not inside the turret with the other Xmen; instead, he is squirreled away into the bowels of the machine and Xcommunicates by headset. Like the commander and the gunner, the Xdriver's view of the world comes through "vision blocks," three Xrectangular blocks each the size and shape of a rear-view mirror. X XAlmost every visible surface within the chamber is covered with readout Xscreens, switches, sensors, gauges, and maintenance monitors. The area Xaround the tank commander's tall black stool has a weirdly shaped black Xjoystick, a targeting scope, and two flat screens with buttons bearing Xcryptic acronyms. These big square buttons are designed to be pressed by Xhands encased in chemical-warfare gauntlets. They're like a lethal Xparody of the child-sized buttons on a My First Sony. X XTanks are, of course, very well-armored vehicles, but there is very Xlittle on earth that can resist a 120-millimeter uranium slug traveling Xat a mile-per-second. Anything hit by this projectile instantly buckles Xand splatters. Modern tank-to-tank warfare is extremely lethal and the Xexchange of direct fire generally lasts only seconds. X XThose seconds are precious, so time spent inside a simulator is not a Xpicnic. Simulators are not toys. They are "fun" in some sense, but only Xabout as much fun as an actual no-kidding tank. You can drive these Xsimulators across cyberspace landscapes, coordinate their tactics, Xadvance and retreat, aim their cannon, fire and be fired upon. You can Xsmash into obstacles, bog down in mud, fall off cliff edges, and Xexperience various kinds of simulated mechanical and engine trouble. You Xcan panic, you can screw up, you can make a fool of yourself in front of Xyour comrades and your commander. You can directly affect your real-life Xmilitary career through what you do in simulators. And you can be killed Xinside simulators - virtually speaking. X XThe One-Twelve Cav deployed to their virtual tanks, opened the thick Xplastic doors on their hefty refrigerator-style hinges, took their posts Xat the black plastic seats, and were sealed inside. The drivers were Xalso formally encased in their own separate plastic sarcophagi. X XThey started their virtual engines. They began exchanging virtual radio Xtraffic. They examined their virtual navigation, and squinted at the Xdesert-colored polygons in their vision-blocks. From the Ethernet lines Xdangling from metal frames overhead, SIMNET packets began to flow to and Xfrom the gloss-black Computer Image Generators, and the SIMNET recording Xangel, the big network machine they called "Radcliff," started to Xmonitor the battle. X XIn another area of the simulator barn, the wily Threat commander brooded Xover his color Macintosh. Capt. Baker, a US Marine tactical instructor Xon loan to Fort Knox, was taking on the entire American force single- Xhandedly. The Yankee opposition were sealed inside their simulators, Xgazing nervously at the pixelated desert and jockeying for position. But XBaker could see the entire landscape at a glance. His on-screen map Xshowed red roads, yellow badlands, the milling icons of the blue XFriendlies, and the red lozenges of his own approaching Threat task Xforce, rumbling forward west of Baseline Purple. X XCapt. Baker followed Soviet tactical doctrine scrupulously. He gave his Xunmanned, computer-generated tanks and armored vehicles their Xinstructions with deft points-drags-and-clicks of his Macintosh mouse. X XHis strategy was to spot or create a weakness in the Yankee defenses, Xpour as much of his armor through the chink as possible, then roll at Xblitzkrieg speed to a target deep behind enemy lines: "Objective Kiev." X XCapt. Baker coolly sent three groups of digital scouts to certain death. X XIn the north, Bravo Platoon was the first to spot the approaching enemy Xscouts. Three Bravo tanks lurched suddenly from ambush and blasted the Xmechanized transports into smoking digital wreckage. The dying Xtransports took a posthumous vengeance, though, by calling in an Xartillery bombardment on the Yankee position. Bravo Platoon saw red and Xyellow impacts spike their hillside landscape, and a vicious crump of Xhigh explosives burst from the Perceptronics audio simulators. X XA second enemy probe tried the center of the American line. Alpha XPlatoon called in a hasty artillery strike of their own against the Xenemy reconnaissance. Unfortunately, the map coordinates were badly Xgarbled in the growing excitement. Lethal "friendly fire" now whumped Xand blasted around Alpha Platoon's own scouts. One scout was killed by Xan enemy transport; the other shot dead by friendly tanks as it fled Xinto the trigger-happy muzzles of its own backup units. X XBy now the radio traffic was going wild. Back at the SIMNET system Xoperator's omniscient "Stealth Station," every howl and yelp was Xspooling onto a cheap K-Mart boombox for later analysis by trainers. X XUnder the stress of battle, the American chain of command was Xdisintegrating, and the engagement was becoming a wild scrap. X XBut one Alpha tank survived. He had found a slope of ground in a sharp Xdeclivity, a sniper's paradise. Inside the simulator, the tank commander Xof Alpha Unit 24 began to lacerate the enemy column, rolling back behind Xthe safety of the virtual ridge, reloading his cannon, then surging up Xagain to swiftly nail another victim with his laser target reticule. It Xis a terrible thing to snipe with a laser-guided 120-mm cannon. Alpha X24 was methodically tearing the enemy column apart. Within some 30 Xseconds four enemy vehicles were reduced to burning hulks. X XThe robotic enemy column seemed stunned by Alpha 24's lethal jack-in- Xthe-box tactic. They milled around in confusion, unable to get a clear Xshot. Then the American artillery kicked in, bracketing the column in Xlethal fire. With their position absolutely untenable, the column Xcharged the sniping tank. Alpha 24 killed two more tanks before being Xoutflanked and forced to retreat. X XBravo Platoon was standing firm in the north, but it had been outfoxed. XNo one was coming their way. Instead, two more enemy columns suddenly Xappeared in the far south, in Charlie Platoon's turf. Seen through the XThreat commander's Macintosh map, the jittering red icons resembled Xangry ants. X XCharlie Platoon as a whole was caught unawares. Despite their wire- Xguided TOW missiles, Charlie Platoon's Bradley Fighting Vehicles were no Xmatch for the Threat heavy armor. Charlie Platoon was swiftly Xoverwhelmed, howling through the radio network for backup that was too Xslow, and too far away. X XCharlie Platoon's survivors called in air-support as they struggled to Xreach the relative safety of Baseline Amber. In answer, two automatic XApache attack helicopters emerged from the blue nothingness of SIMNET's Xcyberspace sky. They fired air-to-surface missiles and swiftly roasted a Xpair of enemy tanks; but the other T-72 tanks potted both the choppers Xon the wing. The Apaches fell in crumpled digital heaps of flaming Xpolygons. X XAs the engagement proceeded, dead men began to show up in the CATTC Xvideo classroom. Inside the simulators, their vision blocks had gone Xsuddenly blank with the onset of virtual death. Here in CATTC's virtual XValhalla, however, a large Electrohome video display unit showed a Xcomprehensive overhead map of the entire battlefield. Group by group, Xthe dead tank crews filed into the classroom and gazed upon the Xbattlefield from a heavenly perspective. X XSlouching in their seats and perching their forage caps on their knees, Xthey began to talk. They weren't talking about pixels, polygons, baud- Xrates, Ethernet lines, or network architecture. If they'd felt any gosh- Xwow respect for these high-tech aspects of their experience, those Xperceptions had clearly vanished early on. They were talking exclusively Xabout fields of fire, and fall-back positions, and radio traffic and Xindirect artillery strikes. They weren't discussing "virtual reality" or Xanything akin to it. These soldiers were talking war. X X"Get them, sir," a deceased tanker muttered vengefully as he watched XAlpha 24's heroic stand in the fake Mojave Hills. Another tanker, from Xthe Alpha scout unit, griped bitterly about his death by friendly fire: X"fratricide." Dying at the hands of his own platoon had been especially Xcruel. It was clear that the real-life lesson of unit coordination had Xsunk in well - at least for this poor guy. X X"It's only SIMNET," another tanker told him at last. "You're not Xbleeding." X XThey weren't bleeding. That was undeniable. On the contrary, they'd Xjust been killed in combat, yet also had the amazing luxury to learn by Xthis experience. The CATTC trainers called off the battle in time for Xlunch; the result was now a foregone conclusion. As Capt. Baker Xexplained to his virtual enemies and real-life students, "There'll be Xhot borscht and vodka at Objective Kiev tonight." The dead soldiers, and Xthe few pleased survivors, had shakes, fries and burgers from the local XBurger King. X X When they returned from their lunch, Maj. Rogers replayed the battle Xfor them, hitting the high points with detailed graphics from the big Xmachine called Radcliff. Any event can be scrutinized, from any angle of Xvision, at any moment in time that the trainers desired. X X XVirtual Reality as a Strategic Asset X************************************* XSIMNET today is a clunky and rapidly aging mid-1980s technology; its Xgiant, $100,000 image generators are so large that they bear red Xadhesive labels: "WARNING: RISK OF PERSONAL INJURY FROM RACK TIPPING XFORWARD." SIMNET still thrives in everyday use at Fort Knox, Fort XRucker, Fort Denning and a number of other sites, sometimes linked Xtogether through long-distance lines, more often not. But better stuff Xis coming: faster, cheaper, more sophisticated, and far better- Xconnected. X XThe people at the Institute for Defense Analyses know all this. The XInstitute is a large, brown, campus-like building set in a pleasant Xwooded lot outside the Beltway of Washington, D.C. Its tall brick walls Xare festooned with white security telecameras. White shuttle-vans with Xthe IDA logo - an infinity-sign in a triangle with the IDA acronym - Xpull up periodically, disgorging small scholarly groups of tweed- Xjacketed military-academic spooks. X XI visited the Institute last fall. Groups of Air Force bluesuiters Xambled periodically into the "Stealth Room." "Stealth technology" cloaks Xobservers in digital invisibility, so that they can travel to any point Xinside a simulated battle. A huge triptych of full-color computer Xscreens showed the simulated activity of a certain weapons system I was Xforbidden to identify publicly. The tarpaulin-shrouded chambers within Xthe Institute were draped with wrist-thick clusters of black cabling Xleading to Sun workstations, networked Macintoshes, and a variety of Xprototype simulators. Everything hummed. X XCol. Jack A. Thorpe, USAF, Ph.D., spends a lot of time in the XInstitute. Col. Thorpe is the "Father of Distributed Simulation" and is XAmerica's foremost advocate of virtual reality as a strategic asset. X XThe Colonel wore a civilian pinstriped suit, an understated maroon tie, Xand polished black wingtips. Col. (or Doctor) Thorpe is a cognitive Xpsychologist specializing in training techniques; he is tall and lean Xand bespectacled, with a straight nose, dark hair, and hollow temples, Xand he possesses the vigorous air of a man with a vision and clear ideas Xof how to get there. He is somewhere near his early forties. X XCol. Thorpe's highly unusual expertise makes his position in the Xmilitary hierarchy somewhat anomalous. He is a career Air Force officer Xwho nevertheless pioneered virtual reality networks for the US Army. He Xis also the special assistant for simulations at DARPA. He clearly has a Xlot of pull at the Institute for Defense Analyses, his institutional Xhome away from home, where DARPA sponsors the IDA Advanced Distributed XSimulation Laboratory. X XCol. Thorpe also has a number of friends among the computer-networking Xexperts at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, and more Xcolleagues yet at the Defense Mapping Agency, and yet more in the XTopographic Engineering Center, and plenty of eager listeners from all Xover the defense-contracting industry. X XAnd yet Col. Thorpe's primary role in today's USmilitary is as "Leader Xof Thrust Six" for the Director of Defense Research and Engineering. X XDr. Victor Reis, Col. Thorpe's immediate superior, is Director of XDefense Research and Engineering. Dr. Reis has a seven-point plan for Xdistributing $3 billion worth of defense research in fiscal year 1993. XThe plan involves fairly standard post-Cold War matters such as global Xsurveillance, air superiority, precision strikes, and advanced land Xcombat. But the sixth point in the Reis plan is "Synthetic XEnvironments." X XCol. Thorpe is the premier Defense Department evangelist for synthetic Xenvironments. His interest in these matters goes back to the late '70s, Xwhen he was in the Air Force Office of Scientific Research. In those Xdays, full-scale Air Force jet simulators cost $40 million each. The Xsimulators - odd devices that perch on hydraulic stilts and pitch and Xtoss their wannabe-ace occupants like broncos - clearly worked well in Xflight-training, but they were clumsy and they cost far too much, and Xworst of all, they were not connected. X XCol. Thorpe is a connectivity visionary first and foremost. X XHis reasoning is simple but profound. An army is not an armed mob of Xheroic individualists. An army is a connected, coordinated, disciplined Xkilling force, working systematically in close cooperation to a desired Xend. In any stand-up fight, an army will destroy a mob, even an armed Xand heroic mob, with very little trouble. X XThere are two basic problems with isolated simulators. They don't Xconnect to other soldiers, and they don't connect to an enemy. They Xmight train individual pilots how to fly very well, but they can't train Xsquadrons how to fight. They can teach the skill of handling an Xaircraft, but they can't teach combat with your own comrades at hand, Xagainst an intelligent enemy who can see you and react to what you do. XSimilarly, a single tank simulator might train a single crew to some Xbrilliant pitch of mechanical efficiency, but it can't build platoons, Xcompanies, battalions, or regiments of armor that can work together, Xconfront enemies, and conquer the battlefield. Armies win wars, not lone Xheroes. In real wars, Rambos die quick. X XOn a higher level of organization, the same logic of coordination and Xnetworking applies across the individual armed forces. Single branches Xof the American military establishment can no longer play the lone-wolf Xgame. Interservice rivalry (though still very real) is officially out of Xfashion in the post-Cold War world of rapid deployment. Maximum speed, Xmaximum impact, and minimum American casualties all demand that the Xservices be fully coordinated, that all assets be brought into play in a Xsmooth and utterly crushing synchrony. Navy ships support land Xoffensives, Air Force strikes support mud-slogging Marines. And space- Xbased satellite intelligence, satellite communications, and satellite Xnavigation support everybody. X XThat is the core of modern American strategic military doctrine, and Xthat is what Col. Thorpe's new project, the Distributed Simulation XInternet, is meant to accomplish for the military in the realm of Xcyberspace. X XDARPA is an old hand at computer networking. The original ARPANET of X1969 grew up to become today's globe-spanning civilian-based Internet. XSIMNET was another DARPA war-child, conceived in 1983 and first online Xin May 1986. DARPA invented SIMNET just as it invented the Internet, but XDARPA spun SIMNET off to the US Army for day-to-day operations. X XDARPA, by its nature, sponsors the cutting edge; the bleeding edge. The XDistributed Simulation Internet, projected for the turn of the century, Xis to be a creature of another order entirely from SIMNET. Ten thousand Xlinked simulators! Entire literal armies online. Global, real-time, Xbroadband, fiber-optic, satellite-assisted, military simulation Xnetworking. Complete coordination, using one common network protocol, Xacross all the armed services. Tank crews will see virtual air support Xflitting by. Jet jockeys will watch Marines defend perimeters on the Xpixelated landscape far below. Navy destroyers will steam offshore Xreadying virtual cruise missiles... and the omniscient eye of trainers Xwill watch it all. X XAnd not just connected, not just simulated. Seamless. "Seamless Xsimulation" is probably the weirdest conceptual notion in the arsenal of Xmilitary virtuality. The seams between reality and virtuality will be Xrepeatedly and deliberately blurred. Ontology be damned - this is war! X XCol. Thorpe emphasizes this concept heavily. And seamless simulation is Xnot a blue-sky notion. It's clearly within reach. X XMost of the means of human perception in modern vehicles of war are Xalready electronically mediated. In Desert Storm, both air pilots and Xtank crews spent much of their time in combat watching infrared Xtargeting scopes. Much the same goes for Patriot missile crews, Aegis Xcruisers, AWACS radar personnel, and so on. War has become a phenomenon Xthat America witnesses through screens. X XAnd it is a simple matter to wire those screens to present any image Xdesired. Real tanks can engage simulator crews on real terrain which is Xalso simultaneously virtual. Fake threats can show up on real radar Xscreens, and real threats on fake screens. While the crews in real Xmachines can no longer tell live from Memorex, the simulators themselves Xwill move closer to the "scratch and sniff" level of realism. X XGranted, simulators still won't fire real shells. "They know how to load Xshells," Col. Thorpe points out. "That's not what we're trying to teach Xthem." What he's trying to teach them, in a word, is networking. The Xwired Army, the wired Navy, the wired Air Force and wired Marines. Wired Xsatellites. Wired simulators. All coordinated. All teaching tactical Xteamwork. X XA wired Armed Forces will be composed entirely of veterans - highly Xtrained veterans of military cyberspace. An army of high-tech masters Xwho may never have fired a real shot in real anger, but have Xnevertheless rampaged across entire virtual continents, crushing all Xresistance with fluid teamwork and utterly focused, karate-like strikes. XThis is the concept of virtual reality as a strategic asset. It's the Xreasoning behind SIMNET, the "Mother of All Computer Games." It's modern XNintendo training for modern Nintendo war. X X X XThe War We Won X************** XThe walls inside the Institute for Defense Analyses are hung with XKuwaiti topography. In some entirely virtual, yet final and terrible Xsense, the USmilitary now owns Kuwait. The Pentagon has a virtual Kuwait Xon a hard disk - SAKI, the Saudi Arabia-Kuwait-Iraq database. It has the Xcountry mapped meter by meter, pixel by pixel, in 3-D, with weather Xoptional. You can climb into one of Col. Thorpe's tank simulators and Xyou can drive across that cyberspace doppleganger voodoo Kuwait Xexchanging gunfire with the polygonal ghosts of Iraqi T-72 tanks. X XThere was a war in Kuwait recently. They don't call it "Desert Shield- XDesert Storm" at IDA or DARPA. They certainly don't call it the X"Persian Gulf War" - that would only irritate the Arab coalition allies Xwho insist on calling that tormented body of water the "Arabian Gulf." XNo - they like to call this event "the war in Southwest Asia." X XThe US military hasn't forgotten Southeast Asia. To hear them talk, you Xwould think that they had discussed very little else for the 16 long Xyears between Saigon and Kuwait City. In Southeast Asia the Pentagon Xsent Americans into tunnels below the earth to fight peasant guerrillas Xhand-to-hand with knives and pistols. They sent soldiers sweeping Xthrough rice paddies in hopes of attracting gunfire from some Viet Cong Xgroup large enough to be spotted from helicopters. As the situation Xbecame more hopeless, they sent in more American flesh to be ambushed Xand pierced with punji sticks. The United States lost a major war in XSoutheast Asia. X XHowever, the US recently won a major war in Southwest Asia. With some Xhandy but basically political and cosmetic help from its Coalition Xallies, the US destroyed the fourth-largest land army on the planet in Xfour days at a cost of only 148 American dead. Geopolitically, this war Xmay have been less significant than Vietnam (with almost everybody in Xthe civilized world versus a clear megalomaniac, victory of some sort Xwas probably not much in doubt.) Strategically and tactically however, XDesert Storm was one of the most lopsided and significant military Xvictories since Agincourt. And the American military is quite aware of Xthis. X X"Southwest Asia" may have vanished into the blipverse of cable Xtelevision for much of the American populace, but the US military has a Xvery long institutional memory. They will not forget Southwest Asia, and Xall the tasty things that Southwest Asia implies, for a long time to Xcome. X XCol. Thorpe and his colleagues at DARPA, IDA, and the Army Office of XMilitary History have created a special Southwest Asian memento of their Xvery own - with the able help of their standard cyberspace civilian Xcontractors: Bolt Beranek & Newman and Illusion Engineering. The memento Xis called "The Reconstruction of the Battle of 73 Easting." X XThis battle took place at a map line called 73 Easting in the desert of Xsouthern Iraq. On 26 February 1991, the Eagle, Ghost, and Iron Troops of Xthe US 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment attacked the Tawakalna Division of Xthe Iraqi Republican Guard. These were untested UStank troops, without Xany previous combat experience, blundering forward in a sandstorm to Xconfront entrenched Soviet-made heavy tanks manned by elite veterans of Xan eight-year war. Thanks to the sandstorm, the Americans had no air Xsupport either; this was a straight-on tank-versus-tank scrap in the Xdesert, right out of the Rommel and Patton strategic notebook. X XThe Americans annihilated the Iraqis in 22 minutes. X XThe Battle of 73 Easting has become the single most accurately recorded Xcombat engagement in human history. Army historians and simulation Xmodelers thoroughly interviewed the American participants, and paced the Xbattlefield meter by meter. They came up with a fully interactive, Xnetwork-capable digital replica of the events at 73 Easting, right down Xto the last TOW missile and .50-caliber pockmark. Military historians Xand armchair strategists can now fly over the virtual battlefield in the X"stealth vehicle," the so-called "SIMNET flying carpet," viewing the 3-D Xvirtual landscape from any angle during any moment of the battle. They Xcan even change the parameters - give the Iraqis infrared targeting Xscopes, for instance, which they lacked at the time, and which made them Xsitting ducks for high-tech American M1s charging out of blowing sand. XThe whole triumphal blitzkrieg can be pondered over repeatedly (gloated Xover even), in perfect scratch-free digital fidelity. It's the spirit of XSouthwest Asia in a digital nutshell. In terms of American military Xmorale, it's like a '90s CD remix of some '60s oldie, rescued from Xwarping vinyl and remade closer to the heart's desire. X XCol. Thorpe and his colleagues first demo'd "73 Easting" in late 1991 at Xthe Interservice/Industry Training Systems and Education Conference X(I/ITSEC) #13, the premier convention for the military training, Xsimulation, and VR industry. The virtual battle was the hit of the show, Xand it went on to tour the Senate Armed Services Committee, where it Xmuch impressed Sam Nunn and John Glenn. X X"The Reconstruction of the Battle of 73 Easting" is an enormously Xinteresting interactive multimedia creation. It is fast and exhilarating Xand full of weird beauty. But even its sleek, polygonal, bloodless Xvirtuality is a terrifying thing to witness and to comprehend. It is Xintense and horrific violence at headlong speed, a savage event of Xgrotesque explosive precision and terrible mechanized impacts. The flesh Xof real young men was there inside those flam- ing tank-shaped polygons, Xand that flesh was burning. X XThat is what one knows - but it's not what one sees. What one really Xsees in "73 Easting" is something new and very strange: a complete and Xutter triumph of chilling, analytic, cybernetic rationality over Xchaotic, real-life, human desperation. X XBattles have always been unspeakable events, unknowable and mystical. XBesides the names of the dead, what we get from past historical battles Xare confused anecdotes, maybe a snapshot or two, impressions pulled from Xa deadly maelstrom that by its very nature could not be documented Xaccurately. But DARPA's "Battle of 73 Easting" shows that day is past Xindeed. The omniscient eye of computer surveillance can now dwell on the Xextremes of battle like a CAT scan detailing a tumor in a human skull. XThis is virtual reality as a new way of knowledge: a new and terrible Xkind of transcendent military power. X X X XA Virtual Military/Industrial Complex? X************************************** XWhat is it that Col. Thorpe and his colleagues really want? Well, of Xcourse, they want the unquestioned global military pre-eminence of the XAmerican superpower. Of course, they want to fulfill their patriotic Xduty in the service of the United States and its national interests. XThey want to win honor and glory in the defense of the American Xrepublic. Those are givens. Col. Thorpe and his colleagues already work Xto those ends every day. X XWhat they really want is their own industrial base. X XThey want the deliberate extension of the American military-industrial Xcomplex into the virtual world. They want a wired, digitized, military- Xpost-industrial complex, reformed and recreated to suit their own terms Xand their own institutional interests. X XThey want a pool of contractors and a hefty cadre of trained civilian Xtalent that they can draw from at need. They want professional XSimulation Battle Masters. Simulation system operators. Simulation site Xmanagers. Logisticians. Software maintenance people. Digital Xcartographers. CAD-CAM designers. Graphic designers. X XAnd it wouldn't break their hearts if the American entertainment Xindustry picked up on their interactive simulation network technology, Xor if some smart civilian started adapting these open-architecture, Xvirtual-reality network protocols that the military just developed. The Xcable TV industry, say. Or telephone companies running Distributed XSimulation on fiber-to-the-curb. Or maybe some far-sighted commercial Xcomputer-networking service. It's what the military likes to call the X"purple dragon" angle. Distributed Simulation technology doesn't have to Xstop at tanks and aircraft, you see. Why not simulate something swell Xand nifty for civilian Joe and Jane Sixpack and the kids? Why not purple Xdragons? X XWe're talking serious bucks here. It's not the most serious money in a Xsuperpower's massive military budget, granted - at least not yet, it Xisn't - but it's very damned serious money by the standards of your Xaverage Silicon Valley multimedia start-up. The defense simulation Xmarket is about $2.5 billion a year. That's Hollywood-serious and then Xsome. Over the next 10 years the Pentagon plans to drop about $370 Xbillion on electronics R&D. Some of that money will fall to simulation. XMaybe a lot of it, if the field really takes off. X XThere are some very heavy operators in the simulation market - and they Xwere all at the 14th I/ITSEC in San Antonio, Texas last November. X XThe gig was sponsored by the National Security Industrial Association - Xa group that basically is the military-industrial complex. I/ITSEC was Xgraced by the corporate presence of General Electric, General Dynamics, XMcDonnell Douglas, Rockwell, Hughes, Martin Marietta, and Bolt Beranek & XNewman. And yes, they were also favored by IBM, Lockheed, Motorola, XSilicon Graphics, Loral, Grumman, and Evans & Sutherland. And plenty Xmore: a whole cloud of hangers-on, suppliers, dealers, niche marketeers, Xand brand-new startups. X XAll these nice-suited people were in handsome display booths in a very Xlarge carpeted hall within hollering distance of the Alamo. The place Xwas alive with screens, top-heavy with humming megabytage. General XDynamics ran their new tank simulator live, right on the display floor. XBolt Beranek & Newman ran a hot new image generator that made mid-1980s XSIMNET graphics look like Hanna-Barbera. X XThey were running demos at every side, and handing out promotional Xvideos, and glossy display brochures, and every species of carnivorous Xmega-corporate public relations. They boasted of clinching major sales Xin foreign markets, and of their glowing write-ups in specialized Xindustry journals such as Military Simulation & Training ($73/year, XBritain) and Defense Electronics ($39/year, Englewood, Colo.) and XNational Defense (American Defense Preparedness Assn., $35/year, XArlington, Va.). Strange magazines, these. Very strange. X XThe attendees attended the keynote speeches, and the banquet speeches, Xand the luncheon speeches. And they attended the presentations, and the Xpaper sessions, and the six tracks of formal programming. And they Xindustriously leafed through their blockbuster, 950-page I/ITSEC #14 XProceedings. This enormous red-and-white volume, officially "approved Xfor public release" by the Department of Defense, was crammed-to- Xbursting with scholarly articles such as "Computer-Supported Embedded XTraining Systems for the Strike/Fighter Aircraft of Tomorrow," and X"Hypermedia: a Solution for Selected Training and Prototyping XApplications." X XAnd even "Virtual Training Devices: Illusion or Reality?" Not much Xdebate there. Simulators are, of course, both illusion and reality. XThey're not entirely real, but they function just fine. And they pay Xlike gangbusters. X XThese people weren't there for their health. They were there for a Xsimple, basic reason. Call it cyberpork. Cyberpork put the slash in X"Interservice/Industry." It put that handy hyphen into "military- Xindustrial." Industry wasn't lonely at I/ITSEC. Their patrons were there Xin spades. Military brass - heavy brass, shiny brass. TRADOC, the XTraining and Doctrine Command. STRICOM, the Simulation Training and XInstrumentation Command. Air Force Training Command. Naval Training XSystems Center. Naval Air Systems Command. People in crisp uniforms and Xpolished shoes, from weapons divisions, and materiel commands, and Xprogram offices, and from forts and bases and academies and institutes, Xall across the US. X XSuppose that you were an ambitious and visionary leader of the post-Cold XWar '90s military establishment, like, say, Col. Jack Thorpe. Or perhaps XCol. Ed Fitzsimmons of the Defense Modeling and Simulation Office, or XLt. Col. James Shiflett from the Information Science and Technology XOffice, or Col. William Hubbard from Army Battle Labs. What are you Xsupposed to do with all these people at I/ITSEC? On the face of it, your Xsituation doesn't look all that promising. The 40-year Cold War Xmilitary-industrial gravy train has clearly gone off the rails. There's Xgonna be - there's bound to be - some "downsizing" and "restructuring" Xand "conversion" and "transition," and all those other euphemisms for Xextreme and wrenching economic pain to your own suppliers, and your own Xpeople, and your own colleagues. Not to mention the potential threat to Xyour own career. X XYour answer, of course - you being the kind of guy you are - is to seize Xthis magnificent opportunity. Wire everyone up! Global, real-time, Xbroadband, networked vendors and suppliers! They're hurting now. They're Xworried. They'll go for anything that looks like survival, that looks Xlike a hot new market. Seize the day. No more of this time-wasting, Xmoney-squandering, inter-vendor rivalry with their incompatible Xstandards. One standard now. The Distributed Simulation Internet XStandard. X XThe Distributed Simulation Internet doesn't even exist yet. It may never Xexist. That's not a problem. What it does have is its own protocol. The XDSI Protocol will link simulation machines from manufacturers across the Xfield and across the planet. X XThis virtuality standard emerged from Orlando, Fla., in the early '90s, Xfrom the potent nexus of Orlando's Institute for Simulation & Training, XOrlando's University of Central Florida, Orlando's US Army STRICOM, XOrlando's Naval Training Systems Center, and the Orlando-based, 400- Xstrong Standards for the Interoperability of Defense Simulations working Xgroups. (One mustn't rule out the possible cultural influence of XDisneyworld, either.) X XThey demo'd the new standard on a network link-up at I/ITSEC #14, live. XThey went for the opportunity. They had to rip up some of the Ethernet Xwiring that they'd laid before the show, because it had so many crimp- Xfailures from the tramping legions of wingtip-shod vendor feet. It got Xhairy for a while there. But they got the demo to run. X XOf course a system crashed. Somebody's system always crashes at any Xmultimedia demo. It's like a force of nature. In the case of the DIS XInteroperability Demo, it was the Mac Quadra 900 running the slide show. XThe sucker iced when its screensaver kicked in, and the sweaty-palmed Xtechies from IDA had to re-boot live. They winged it, and got the slides Xup. It looked okay. Most people didn't notice. X XThe protocol worked just fine. They had a big digitized section of the Xterrain from Fort Hunter-Liggett in California, running live on-screen, Xcunningly combined with an actual long-distance link to an actual wired Xtank in actual Fort Hunter-Liggett. X X"Seamless simulation," live onstage. X XThe demo was far from real virtual war. There was some ritual gunfire Xhere or there, but this wasn't real combat training. This was a fashion Xshow in seam-free camouflage haute-couture. X XEverybody took a formal runway-model turn, up on the big virtual stage. XWith live narration at the mike: "The bogeys are generated by Bolt XBeranek & Newman." General Dynamics Land Systems Division modeled the Xvirtual M1A2 Battle Tank. From their own show-booth, General Electric Xthoughtfully supplied an Abrams tank and an F-16. Hughes proudly Xdisplayed a robot spy-drone. McDonnell Douglas had a surface-to-air Xmissile, and Lockheed demo'd a virtual Patriot battery. Twenty-four Xcompanies - twenty-five, if you count the guys who supplied the video Xprojectors. All of them packed snugly in the DARPA virtual corral. X XThey had the brass lined-up right at the front, in a row of folding Xchairs. A rear admiral here, a couple of lieutenant generals there; a Xfull brace of Cold War veterans, braid and chest ribbons and hats. The Xbrass watched the three monster screens with squint-eyed, show-me Xskepticism. X XAnd the brass weren't blown-away, either. The network looked pretty Xgood, and it ran without crashing, but they weren't stunned or amazed. XThe brass didn't leave San Antonio raving that they'd just seen the Xfuture and it worked. They clearly didn't know quite what to make of Xwhat they had just seen. One got the impression that they figured this Xvirtual-network stuff might turn into something useful someday. Cute Xgimmick. Clever. Worth a look, I guess. Learn something new every day. XGlad we came down here to I/ITSEC. Lemme know when we can use this to Xinvade Normandy. X XThe brass were on public exhibit themselves, actually. Whether they knew Xit or not, they were legitimizers, stalking horses, Trojan Horses. XGenerals and admirals from a very long-lasting but swiftly vanished era. XCompared to their tech-crazed subordinates - the Southwest Asian, baby- Xboomer, carnivorous cyber-colonels, majors, and captains who are now Xactually running the digitized New World Order American military - the XCold War guys looked like a line of stuffed ducks. X X XToday Kuwait, Tommorow the World X******************************** XThere was some interesting stuff backstage at I/ITSEC. There was a big Xrope-handled canvas bag full of the tools of the virtual trade: hex Xcrimpers, nut drivers, metric wrenches, soldering wire, cable strippers. XThere were big ugly powerful rock'n'roll amps stenciled PROPERTY OF US XGOVT INSTITUTE FOR DEFENSE ANALYSES, and big color display monitors Xshimmed up on cardboard, and there were powerstrips and orange extension Xcords and some loose Mac floppies. And there was a handscrawled brag on Xa backstage chalkboard, written by the techies from Orlando: "DIS XInteroperability Demonstration. Today's feature: DIS. Tomorrow: the Xholodeck!" X XThe natural question arises: Is this some kind of wacky egghead DARPA Xmedia hype, or is this a genuine military technology? Can governments Xreally exercise national military power - kick ass, kill people - merely Xby using some big amps and some color monitors and some keyboards, and a Xbunch of other namby-pamby sci-fi "holodeck" stuff? X XThe answer is yes. X XYes, this technology is lethal. Yes, it is a real strategic asset. XMilitary virtual reality is not a toy or a joke. There is a lot of Xvaporware in "virtual reality," but this technology definitely will help Xpeople kill each other. Virtual reality happens to be very fashionable Xat the moment, with some ritzy pop-cultural overtones, but that is Xaccidental. Whether or not VR becomes a major new medium of commercial Xentertainment, or some vital new mode of artistic expression, it still Xwill be of enormous use to the military. Thriving civilian VR will Xprobably make military VR expand even faster; giving the virtual Xbattlefield better and glossier set designs. X XThere was a demo at I/ITSEC called "Project 2851." This is a new Xstandard for digital terrains, a standard for all American armed forces. XIt will let them share terrain databases on any number of different Xmachines. X XBut there is another aspect to Project 2851. Project 2851 is about the Xvirtual reproduction and archiving of the entire planet. Simulator Xtechnology has reached a point today in which satellite photographs can Xbe transformed automatically into 3-D virtual landscapes. These Xlandscapes can be stored in databases, then used as highly accurate Xtraining grounds for tanks, aircraft, helicopters, SEALS, Delta Force Xcommandos. X XWhat does this mean? It means that soon there will be no such thing as X"unknown territory" for the United States military. In the future - Xsoon, very soon - the United States military will know the entire planet Xjust like the back of its hand. It will know other countries better than Xthose countries know themselves. X XDuring the Battle of 73 Easting, an American tank regiment came roaring Xout of an Iraqi desert that the Iraqis themselves could not navigate. XThe Iraqis couldn't enter their own desert, because they would have died Xthere. But the Americans had satellite navigation units, so the XAmericans knew where they were on our planet's surface right down to the Xyard. X XThe Stealth pilots who blew downtown Baghdad into hell-and-gone had Xalready flown those urban landscapes before they ever put their butts Xin the cockpit seat. They knew every ridge, every skyline, every road - Xthey'd already seen them on console screens. X XDuring Desert Storm, some Iraqi soldiers actually surrendered to Xunmanned flying drones. These aircraft are disembodied eyes, disembodied Xscreens, network peripherals basically, with a man behind them somewhere Xmany miles away. And that man has another screen in front of him, and a Xkeyboard at hand, and a wire from that keyboard that can snake through a Xnetwork and open a Vent of Hell. X XThis is what it all means. Say you are in an army attempting to resist Xthe United States. You have big tanks around you, and ferocious Xartillery, and a gun in your hands. And you are on the march. X XThen high-explosive metal begins to rain upon you from a clear sky. XEverything around you that emits heat, everything around you with an Xengine in it, begins to spontaneously and violently explode. You do not Xsee the eyes that see you. You cannot know where the explosives are Xcoming from: sky-colored Stealths invisible to radar, offshore naval Xbatteries miles away, whip-fast and whip-smart subsonic cruise missiles, Xor rapid-fire rocket batteries on low-flying attack helicopters just Xbelow your horizon. It doesn't matter which of these weapons is Xdestroying your army - you don't know, and you won't be told, either. XYou will just watch your army explode. X XEventually, it will dawn on you that the only reason you, yourself, are Xstill alive, still standing there unpierced and unlacerated, is because Xyou are being deliberately spared. That is when you will decide to Xsurrender. And you will surrender. After you give up, you might come Xwithin actual physical sight of an American soldier. X XEventually you will be allowed to go home. To your home town. Where the Xligaments of your nation's infrastructure have been severed with Xterrible precision. You will have no bridges, no telephones, no power Xplants, no street lights, no traffic lights, no working runways, no Xcomputer networks, and no defense ministry, of course. You have aroused Xthe wrath of the United States. You will be taking ferries in the dark Xfor a long time. X XThis is not the future that I'm describing. Basically, this is the Xpresent - this is what actually happened to the world's fourth largest Xarmy, in Southwest Asia. Will the US Government continue to expand the Xcourse that led us in that direction? After all, we've won the Cold War Xand our domestic economy's hurting rather badly. Will the new Clinton XAdministration follow the DARPA lead? Continue pouring money into the Xgold-plated rathole of ultra-high-tech military-technological advance? X XYou might judge the likelihood of that by Bill Clinton's statements on Xthe campaign trail. "While we will need a smaller military in the post- XCold War world, we must retain our superior technology, high-quality Xpersonnel, and strong industrial base." That's what he told National XDefense magazine, anyhow. X XClinton and Gore may have little reason for fondness for the Army that Xbrought us Vietnam, but they've got plenty in common with their Xgenerational contemporaries, the cybercolonels. They are calling for a X"civilian DARPA," but you can bet good money that they won't lose their Xfondness for the military one. Defense Simulation Internet? The White XHouse is now in the hands of rabid fiber-optic enthusiasts. X XThe virtual iron is hot. Want to see a real vision of the virtual Xfuture? It's a future in which large sections of the American military- Xindustrial complex have migrated entirely into cyberspace. This is the Xreal DARPA Virtual Reality Vision Thing, the plans they allude to with Xquiet determination just after the big multimedia displays. "Simulate Xbefore you build." They want to make that a basic military principle. X XNot just simulated weapons. Entire simulated defense plants. Factories Xthat exist only in digital form, designed and prepared to build weapons Xthat don't even exist yet either, and have never existed, and may become Xobsolete and be replaced by better ones, before a nail is ever hammered. XNevertheless, these nonexistent weapons will have entire battalions of Xreal people who are expert in their use, people who helped design them Xand improve them hands-on, in the fields of virtual war. X X"Simulate before you build" is a daring ax-stroke at the very tap-root Xof the Cold War-era military-industrial complex. It is a potential coup Xthat could deliver the whole multi-billion-dollar shebang - lock, stock, Xand barrel - into the hands of the virtuality elite. If it shrinks the Xmilitary by 50 percent or so, so what? Instead of the 1 percent or so of Xthe Pentagon budget that they currently control, the simulation Xcybercolonels will own everything, the whole untidy, hopelessly Xbureaucratic, crying-for-improvement mess. No military object will see Xphysical existence until it is proven, under their own institutional Xaegis, on the battlefields of cyberspace. They'll be able to shove the Xungainly Cold War camel through the cold glass eye of the cyberspace Xneedle. And God only knows what kind of sleek, morphing beast will Xemerge from the other side. X XDoes this sound farfetched? Why? If something as delicate and precise as Xvirtual surgery is possible (and it is), then why not virtual military Xmanufacturing? Sure might solve a lot of pollution problems. And Xmilitary storage problems. All kinds of problems, when you come to think Xabout it. X XLet's have a speculative look at the 21st-century USA. Amber waves of Xgrain and all that. Peaceful place; scarcely resembles a military Xsuperpower at all. Hardly any missile silos, hardly any tanks, hardly Xany concertina wire. Until the Americans need it. Then the whole Xmassive, lethal superpower infrastructure comes unfolding out of 21st- Xcentury cyberspace like some impossible fluid origami trick. The Reserve Xguys from the bowling leagues suddenly reveal themselves to be digitally Xassisted Top Gun veterans from a hundred weekend cyberspace campaigns. XAnd they go to some godforsaken place that doesn't possess Virtual XReality As A Strategic Asset, and they bracket that army in their Xrangefinder screens, and then they cut it off, and then they kill it. XBlood and burning flesh splashes the far side of the glass. But it can't Xget through the screen. X XMaybe you can believe that idea and all that it implies - "simulate Xbefore you build." Or maybe you might wax a little more cynical. Maybe Xwhat we're presented here, under the slick rhetoric of the Paperless XOffice, is yet another staggering stack of old-fashioned Pentagon Xpaperwork - a brand new way to make megabuck hammers and toilet seats to Xan entire new set of ridiculous, endless bureaucratic specs. Only this Xtime, after all the studies and form-filling, you end up with absolutely Xno tangible product at all! X XMaybe it's just a bizarre Silicon Valley power-play. Every other major XAmerican industry has got a sucker deep in the military-industrial Xjuice. Maybe it's time for the virtual reality, CAD-CAM, multimedia Xcrowd to hunker down with the older industries and have some long, life- Xgiving sips from the taxpayer's bloodstream. Maybe the whole scheme is Xjust updated hype - for that same old fat-cat, imperialistic, Xhypertrophied, overfed, gold-plated military bureaucracy... . X XCould be. It could go either way, maybe both ways at once - make your Xown decision. One thing's for sure though. The US military today is the Xmost potent and lethal gold-plated military bureaucracy of all time. X XYou can't fault DARPA for lack of vision. Vision they've definitely got. XThere's one matter, though, which they don't discuss much. That's the Xpossibility of a virtuality arms race. X XIf military virtuality really works, everyone's gonna want it. X XNow imagine two armies, two strategically assisted, cyberspace-trained, Xpost-industrial, panoptic ninja armies, going head-to-head. What on Xearth would that look like? A "conventional" war, a "non-nuclear" war, Xbut a true War in the Age of Intelligent Machines, analyzed by Xnanoseconds to the last square micron. X XWho would survive? And what would be left of them? X X X Xcopyright © 1993 Wired magazine X X X X X- -- XBob Rogers Internet: rogers@instrumental.com XInstrumental, Inc. GEnie: R.C.ROGERS XMinneapolis, MN Phone: 612-920-6188 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "W.Renger" XSubject: Re: dsdemo /europatch 1.0c X XRE: about the dsdemo: X> X>This, from the readme. looks like a fun and playable demo of things X>to come. Has anyone got it to work yet? X> X>John K. Hiett X XYes, I did! As the readme tells you there are several options you can Xchoose in the demo; you can fly a (nice desert-pink) tornado or Explore Xthe landscape with the mouse. Both work nice and the landscape is great; Xlots of new features (I encountered a villa with swimming pool inside its Xwalls(!) probably a rich oil baron...), chemical plants, nuclear plants, Xcities etc. XLots of sanddunes also, which are great fun, because they're sometimes so Xsteep the autopilot gives up ( the famous pull up with warning flash) XBut... there should be a mission option included also and this doesn't Xwork with me! It mentions something about not finding a sub directory. I Xhaven't solved the problem yet... Anyway, if you try to run the demo, make Xsure you don't have too much TSR's active etc. etc. Common routine with Xmost games nowadays. X XRE:about the euro-demo patch X X>The improvements of 1.0b over 1.0 are really worth it, especially X>the warning you hear when a missile is close. Haven't tried 1.0c yet. X> X> X>Have fun, X>Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein X XHeinz-Bernd is right: you should unzip using the -d switch: the patch needs Xto replace files in the different subdir's in Tornado. XI tried the patch already and my girlfriend is complaining harder than Xever :-) finally I got my PAS 16 soundcard to work properly because the c- Xpatch includes a soundcard bug fix!!! Nice explosions, engines sounding Xlike engines, it's more real than ever. X XLast but not least: I bought a nice book with insides on the Tornado, Xgreat photographs, including detailed HUD symbology etc. etc. Its part of a Xserie of Salamander books on Modern Combat Aircraft. (no, I'm not related Xto them in any way :-) )If anyone is interested I can give more details X(ISBN etc.) It costs about 15 $... X XSo long, keep moving dust... X______________________________________________________________________ XWillem-Jan 'Engine' Renger X _-_ _-_ XRenger@frw.ruu.nl <0> <0> X ^ X O X X "He who sees first, lives longest" X_______________________________________________________________________ X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Re: Tornado's dsdemo X XJohn K. Hiett wrote: X X>Q?: I have downloaded dsdemo.zip from onion.rain.com and cactus.org X>as well. And I'm havin' trouble. It unzips fine...it desires DOS5 X>so I restarted with actual DOS 5.0..then I noticed it wanted things X>in a sub-dir..so I made one and moved them. But then all shoulda' X>worked....drat, no execution. X XLooks like the same problem someone had with the euro-patches: XYou have to use the -d option of pkunzip to tell the unzipper to Xrestore the directory structure of the archive, the the proper Xsubdir's will be generated automatically. X XUnlike the demo for the original release, the DS-demo includes a X*mission *you can fly (that is, you can drop bombs and you are shot Xat). X XExplore mode is perhaps the most interesting feature of dsdemo. XSome of the buildings there are almost to beautiful to throw bombs Xon! X XI had only one problem with the demo: In mission mode, the joystick Xcallibration didn't work right. Switching to high sensitivity Xjoystick control (SHIFT Y (on anglo-american keyb.)), helped a bit. X X XI wonder when they will release 'the real thing'. XCheck six, Santa Claus approaching! XMerry Christmas and a happy new year! X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@cactus.org (Jim Knutson) XSubject: falcon3 and flight_sim wais libraries are back. X XI've finally been able to install the falcon3 and flight_sim Xwais libraries on cactus.org. The port number has changed Xto 210 and I now support boolean searches ("and" and "not") Xand literal searches ("literal text in quotes"). X XDon't know if the directory of servers stuff on quake.think.com Xhas been updated yet, but it should be soon if it hasn't already Xbeen. X XJim X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 86 ]] END-of-issue086 echo x - issue087 sed 's/^X//' >issue087 << 'END-of-issue087' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I87 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 87 X Sat Jan 1 02:56:27 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X T-Master Calibration Kestrel XSubject: T-Master Calibration X XI am having trouble calibrating my FCS Mk. I properly for Tornado. I have the Xlatest U.S. version 1.0C. The joystick works fine for flight but the coolie hat Xdoesn't work for the views. When I calibrate the joystick, I get the same Xcoordinate values for all the coolie hat positions except for up. X XIf anyone could help me with this, I'd really appreciate it. Please email the Xresponse if possible (prt40684@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu). Thanks in advance. X XPaul X:) X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: knutson@cactus.org (Jim Knutson) XSubject: WAIS library access X XI just received confirmation from the directory of servers that my WAIS Xlibrary sources have now been updated. If you were having problems Xbefore (past month or so), you should try again. In addition to the Xfalcon3 and flight_sim libraries, I've created an IHHD library for Xthose interested in doing doing head-to-head over the Internet. The XIHHD library is not limited to flight sims. X XI've also expanded the flight_sim library somewhat. Apparently, I Xwasn't indexing my entire collection of information. This has been Xfixed, so now there's probably more than you ever wanted to know. XEventually, I will try to organize this stuff into a more presentable Xfashion using gopher. This will end up being similar to an online and Xcurrent version of "The USENET Guide to Falcon 3.0", but with expanded Xinformation (covering most flight sims). X XI had originally planned on allowing boolean expression searches Xusing freeWAIS, but ran into search problems with it, so there will Xbe no boolean search expressions until a more robust freeWAIS is Xavailable. X XFor those who are without Internet access, but would still like to use Xthe service, there is a WAIS mail server. Send email to Xwaismail@quake.think.com with the text 'help' as the message body for Xmore information. X XNow for the mandatory blurb on WAIS. WAIS is the Wide Area Information XService. It's like an online library where you select the library you Xwant to get info from and then search for titles that contain specified Xkeywords. The titles returned to you are shown in "relevance" or most Xsignificant order. You can then choose which articles you want to Xread. X XTo use this service, you can use the email interface as explained Xabove, or use a local wais client such as swais, xwais, or waisq. XLastly, you can telnet to quake.think.com, login as wais and use their Xswais client to lookup the information. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@cactus.org --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!peyote!knutson + X Check Six! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jay.lee@msbbs.mn.org (Jay Lee) XSubject: Tornado WCS configurations X X X I finally got around to picking up TM's WCS Mk II to supplement my Xvirtual aircraft, and, while I still confuse myself pretty regularly can't Ximagine going back to a 'board. X X I've configured for F3 in what I find optimum for my conditions (I Xdon't use HFR, still a SAM wimp, so I didn't need most of the radar controls, Xbut I digress..) X X I've put a little thought into what I'll want for my Tornado Xconfiguration (IDS), and decided some input from those who have had time to Xexperiment, and (hopefully) found a good configuration. I'd appreciate any Xmail; both suggestions and copies of your config files would be most helpful. X XKeep Flying Speed! X j X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 87 ]] END-of-issue087 echo x - issue088 sed 's/^X//' >issue088 << 'END-of-issue088' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I88 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 88 X Sun Jan 2 09:45:23 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Tornado WCS configurations Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk X Re: Tornado WCS configurations Jeff Beadles X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: Tornado WCS configurations X X XJay, X Xhere's my WCS-II configuration for Tornado (Digital throttle, analog hat). X XFCS XGAME 1 XBTN UB k ; XBTN MB ENT XBTN LB CTLD r CTLU CTLD ENT CTLU XBTN HU HOME HOME XBTN HR SHIFTD END SHIFTU XBTN HD PGUP PGUP XBTN HL SHIFTD PGDN SHIFTU XBTN HM | XWCS XBTN 1 f XBTN 2 c XBTN 3 e XBTN 4 r XBTN 5 ALTD r ALTU XBTN 6 ALTD RCTL ALTU XRKR UP w XRKR MD | XRKR DN s XTHR 60 19 = - _ + = - X XNote that this is essentially `defensive' WCS-II programming to allow Xfor the problem that the WCS sends too fast and so causes stuff to be Xdropped. Hence the use of _ and + to ``recalibrate'' the throttle Xaround the afterburner detent. If th WCS could be set up to Xsend without risk of losing strokes I'd definately but ESC on one Xof the buttons and try to find some better way of using the rocker Xswitch. Note also that I have two foot switches for joystick B's Xbuttons so that airbrakes and maneuvre flaps don't need hand buttons. X XDoes anyone know if Thrustmaster have released the new controller ROMs (and Xdocs) which allow the rate at which keystrokes are sent to be regulated to Xensure none are missed? X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Jeff Beadles XSubject: Re: Tornado WCS configurations X X X X>Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk wrote: X>Does anyone know if Thrustmaster have released the new controller ROMs (and X>docs) which allow the rate at which keystrokes are sent to be regulated to X>ensure none are missed? X XI've heard that the rom's are done, and they're just waiting on the Xmanuals to get back from the printers. It should be any day now, if Xthis is so. X XEagerly awaiting, X -Jeff X- -- XJeff Beadles jeff@neon.rain.com X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 88 ]] END-of-issue088 echo x - issue089 sed 's/^X//' >issue089 << 'END-of-issue089' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I89 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 89 X Fri Jan 7 08:12:00 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Art of the Kill commercial knutson@cactus.org (Jim Knutson) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: knutson@cactus.org (Jim Knutson) XSubject: Art of the Kill commercial X XI was shocked just now. While watching tonight's Wings episode there Xwas a commercial for Art of the Kill. They were using actual footage Xof HUD camera shots in dogfights followed by a Falcon ACMI display of a Xdogfight. There were some shots sprinkled in of Pete Bonanni with his Xstick models as well. Boy, talk about appealing to a select audience. XAnyway, good choice for advertising on SH's part. Made me want to go Xand buy it, but then again I already have it. Funny thing was that I Xat first I thought it was a commercial for Air Combat USA or Air XWarriors. X XJim Knutson | | Xknutson@cactus.org --=oOo=-- Xcs.utexas.edu!peyote!knutson + X Check Six! X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 89 ]] END-of-issue089 echo x - issue090 sed 's/^X//' >issue090 << 'END-of-issue090' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I90 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 90 X Mon Jan 10 06:37:56 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Art of the Kill in the UK? Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Art of the Kill in the UK? X X XHas anyone seen this thing here in the UK? Do Microprose even Xdistribute it here in PAL format? I'd buy it from the US but Xof course it wouldn't play on the videos here... X X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 90 ]] END-of-issue090 echo x - issue091 sed 's/^X//' >issue091 << 'END-of-issue091' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I91 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 91 X Wed Jan 12 23:33:53 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X FS5...the real benchmark HIETT@caer.uky.edu X SimNet lmbain@netcom.com (Larry Bain) X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: HIETT@caer.uky.edu XSubject: FS5...the real benchmark X XHello all, X I have been flying the MS FS5 with Mallard scenery Xof San Fransisco. Although I love this "look & feel" I have Xnever seen any software eat a computer up like this one. FS5 has XCPU cycles for breakfast. I am running a 486-33, Speedstar24X (ISA), X8 meg ram, etc. I realize this was a marginal machine for FS5. XSo, I tried it on a Micron 486-66(DX2) , Diam. Viper, 16 meg, etc. and Xit just wasn't much better. X XMy question is this: Has anyone flown FS5...with all details on (VGA or SVGA) Xon a faster machine like a Pentium or dual Pentium and had great results? XI would like to know if anything can run this software "smoothly" when the Xdetails and other items are maxed-out. X XI figure that it was written on some workstation and ported down to the XPC (X86 platform). OK Bill Gates..what machine are you using!? Oh, that's Xright Bill is married now, he doesn't have time to fly. ;-) X XJohn "Sirpo" Hiett Xhiett@caer.uky.edu XINN=89726 X Xcheck tires! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: lmbain@netcom.com (Larry Bain) XSubject: SimNet X Xt X[ an exract from c.s.i.pc.games.flight-sims -larry] X X Xgary cooper (cooper@access.digex.net) wrote: X> amateur@world.std.com (Stephen L Stclair) writes: X> >I saw a reference to SimNet recently--what is it and how can I get on? X> > X> X> the only simnet I know of is the military one - joining the Army X> would be a good way. :> X X X XIn addition to the simnet used by the U.S. Military for training there is a XPC BBS based SimNet for PC Simulator/Games enthusiasts. BBS nodes of Xthe PC SimNet carry message bases and file areas for many of the popular XFlight-Sims and Flight Sim accessories (i.e. Joysticks etc). All of the Xnodes within the PC SimNet fan out their message bases and files to each Xother so all users are in contact through the 'net'. X XCurrently small, the PC SimNet is growing rapidly. Below are some of Xthe BBS nodes that I'm aware of. PC SimNet provides an alternative for sim enthusiasts who don't have internet access. Local BBS nodes are also Xexcellent forums for supporting local flight sim clubs as has been Xdemonstrated by many of the xxx TFW clubs (510th, 714th, 817th, etc). XPC SimNet has had sporadic connectivity with the USENET but the reliability Xhasn't been very good until just recently. Hopefully, those problems are Xall in the past. X XIf you have a local/favorite BBS that may be a good candidate for becoming Xa SimNet node, have the SysOp contact the Trade Center SysOp (below). I Xdon't believe that there are any fees or licenses involved in becoming Xa SimNet node. (I have nothing to do with SimNet other than as a happy Xuser of the node on the Fast Tracks BBS). X XSimNet BBS Nodes that I'm aware of: X X Trade Center 1 San Mateo CA (415) 340-0197 Gabe Turk 14.4/v32b X Trade Center 2 San Mateo CA (415) 340-7261 Gabe Turk 14.4/v32b X The Fast Tracks Sunnyvale CA (408) 739-5781 Jedi 14.4/v32b X The Informer Daly City CA (415) 468-6713 John Custer 14.4/v32b X Check Six Orange Co CA (714) 362-8299 Ghost 14.4/v32b X Beta Los Osos CA (805) 528-6829 Steve Parker 14.4/v32b X The Twilight ZoneEdwards CA (805) 258-0413 Robert Ayers 16.8/Dual X Powerline BBS Valdosta GA (912) 249-9585 Robert Whitt 14.4/v32b X Modem CONNECTion Atlanta GA (404) 952-8981 Pat Coloney 14.4/v32b X Cyber Space BBS Milwaukie OR (503) 654-4645 Scott Johnson 14.4/v32b X Afterburner BBS Ft Worth TX (817) 292-4193 Jeff Herman 14.4/v32b X The Contrails Euless TX (817) 355-9242 Joe Richter 14.4/v32b X The Fox Den N Britain CT (203) 223-5217 Clyde Fox 14.4/v32b X Reverse Polarity Plantsville CT(203) 620-0001 Bill Arlofski 14.4/v32b X The Spacedock Newington CT (203) 666-4999 Jim Bills 16.8/Dual X X X============================================================================= X XL M Bain "It is not a problem of whether machines think, XMt. View, Calif. but whether men do." Xlmbain@netcom.com B. F. Skinner X X X X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 91 ]] END-of-issue091 echo x - issue094 sed 's/^X//' >issue094 << 'END-of-issue094' XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 94 X Sat Jan 29 09:32:35 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Tornado Desert Storm mission di mounie@jura.enet.dec.com X Re: DI future plans and suchlike Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk X Flight Simulator Toolkit Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk X Harpoon II Midn Peter Vincent Brahan I have received a few days ago the new Tornado: Desert Storm mission disk X>(It is not yet available in stores in France. I'm working (as a pastime) in X> a french simulation magazine (Micro-Simulateur) and I receive the box from X> the editor X X I do not know if there are many French-speaking people reading this X list, which is great by the way, but as you say 'I'm working' I guess X it means that the magazine Micro-Simulateur is still alive ! X It has been a long time know that I phone to the editor and he told me X that they stop the publication but might be reborn sometime. So X apparently it is coming back ! That would be great as it was the most X professional and totally dedicated to flight-sim of the games magazine. X X Thierry (...from France 8^) X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Re: DI future plans and suchlike X X X X>Also, when I bought Tornado Spectrum Holobyte seemed to be involved one way X>or another. I don't know what their relationship is, but if they are X>cooperating, why can't the people at D.I. teach them how to write X>proper joystick routines???? People flying Falcon will know what I mean.. XBasically, there is no relationship between DI and SH. SH are purely Xthe US distributors nothing more. The two companies, although on very Xfriendly ``programmers chatting'' terms, do *not* share any software Xtechnology. Indeed, according to the DI programmers the internal Xphilosophies of the Falcon 3D engine and the Tornado one are quite different. X X>Finally, does anyone know what the future releases will be from D.I. X>I'm quite charmed by their products, XI'm sure they'll be glad to hear it! X X>so I was wandering if their will be X>new products based on the Tornado 3D engine. X XAs I understand new games based on the Tornado engine are not Xcontemplated at present. There *is* a little helicopter mini-sim Xthat awas recently released (EH101 Merlin) that DI developed from an Xearly version of the Tornado engine for the Royal Navy. Its out Xfor around 7 pounds (11 bucks) here in the UK. X X>SH don't want to bring out X>the A-10 Warthog because their 3D engine cannot cope with the amount of X>ground detail used for a mud-mover. But what about the Tornado engine? I X>see no restrictions in this respect because of the high-quality ground X>detail in Tornado? Or should there be a bussiness oriented problem due to X>an arrangement between the two? X XBasically, the reason is that the current Tornado implementation is very Xhighly tuned. Pulling out the ``generic'' bits and changing stuff like Xthe weapons systems and avionics simulation would be very labour Xintensive. The actual Tornado simulator code (not the mission planner Xetc) game was pretty much all written by one guy (Kevin Bezant). Only Xthe sound drivers and some of the `design' work on stuff like flight Xmodels were done by other people. X XAlso, you would be amazed at how labour intensive it is to get stuff Xlike flight and avionics/weapons models, scenery, cockpit graphics and Xso on up to a decent level as in Tornado. It is a very sizeable fraction Xof the total cost of building a simulator. Since a lot of these things Xwould be easier (aka less expensive) to get right in a more modern game Xengine using a 32bit DOS extender I think they felt a second major game Xfrom the Tornado engine would not be cost-effective. Also, there is Xalso a signficant factor of what they would *like* to do. Games Xprogramming is basically not a get-rich-quick kind of activity, Xbasically doing *fun* programming is part of what people are in the Xbusiness for. X XAs I understand it serious full-time development work on the Tornado Xfollow-on is just about to start (now that Desert Storm is done and the XAmiga version is completed). The immediate goal is (I believe) a fairly Xgeneric sim engine based around an advanced 32 bit version of the Tornado X3D engine. The overall aim (still subject to a 1000 influences of Xmarket conditions , etc) is to eventually release both a Tornado and an XF16 simulator based on the same engine. The actual choice of aircraft Xan even authenticity/gameplay balance will probably be settled only when Xdevelopment is a good way progressed. X X XAndrew X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk XSubject: Flight Simulator Toolkit X X X> X>Has anybody tried Domark's FSTK? The latest GameBytes has a review plus X>a very interesting interview with somebody from the British company that X>developed it. XGlad to hear you like 'em: 'twas I who did them! :-) X X>I've seen a few comments on the net, but they seem to be X>from people who expected a differenct product than what they got; FSTK X>seems to me to be like a compiler: you have to add a considerable amount X>of you own work to the tool before you get something out of it. X XI think you've hit the nail on the head there. The product *is* very Xmuch a compiler. There are two `demo' simulations thrown in `for Xfree' and lots of `clipart' and a decent bit of `clip sound'. X X>I'd especially like to see some of the FSTK-generated sims: if anybody's X>created one, could you upload it somewhere? X XSilly that no-one ever thought of this. I'll contact SIMIS and see if a Xdemo `FST sim' could be constructed. One problem I suspect is that XSIMIS have deliberately kept the file-formats used by the game engine Xhighly readable/edittable. I.e. handing out demo games would be pretty Xmuch the same as handing out half of the toolkit. That said, maybe Xa slightly hacked version of the engine that checks the files being read Xmight be possible. I'll ask. X X In the interim here's my impressions of the kind of quality of im you Xcould build: X X- Graphically `respectable'. No shading or texturing, but pretty much Xeverything else is done well and the ability to drive SVGA is very very Xnice. X X- Flight models. Pretty sophisticated aerodynamically. I am sure you Xcould easily do something much better than Falcon's COMPLEX or HI-FI. XI was *impressed*. The only notewrothy limitation (I felt) was Xthere's no support for parameters to simulate variable geometry. X X- Combat: we're definately not talking Falcon-3 or Tornado here. XFairly basic. X X- Civil (maps and nav): also pretty impressive. You can have very Xbig, respectably detailed worlds, and a basic selection of Radio Nav Xbeacons etc are modelled. X X XIn short: if you want to build pure combat sims of a fairly authentic Xflavour the package is a bit limited. If you're interested in actual Xflying, playing with how different aeroplanes fly, flying around Xscenery, or ``just fun'' shoot-em up combat the package is pretty Ximpressive. X X XAndrew X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Midn Peter Vincent Brahan XSubject: Harpoon II X X XDoes anyone know when Harpoon II is going to come out? Also, have you Xheard of any reviews? X X--Pete X X LONG LIVE DDG 51! X X------------------------------- X XFrom: AJONES@EVAX12.ENG.FSU.EDU XSubject: Missing Issues? X X I was catching up on past issues of the newsletter here when I Xrealized that there were no issues number 61-67, and I haven't been able to Xfind any on the archives at onion.rain.com or at cactus.org. Anybody want Xto explain this one? TNX... X X[ Looks like I missed adding them to the archives. Anyone wanna upload them X to onion.rain.com:/pub/hitech-sim/incoming? --Jeff] X X AJ X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 94 ]] END-of-issue094 echo x - issue095 sed 's/^X//' >issue095 << 'END-of-issue095' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I95 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 95 X Tue Feb 1 07:22:49 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Micro-Simulateur magazine bonnet@cr2a.fr (Christophe Bonnet) X Tornado: pilot log files encrypted Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) ... as you say 'I'm working' I guess X> it means that the magazine Micro-Simulateur is still alive ! X> It has been a long time know that I phone to the editor and he told me X> that they stop the publication but might be reborn sometime. So X> apparently it is coming back ! That would be great as it was the most X> professional and totally dedicated to flight-sim of the games magazine. X X(OK, I will make a small advertisement here, Jeff, feel free to remove it Xif you find it too much commercial...) X XYou're right Thierry. Micro-Simulateur is back ! X(For all of you who are not French, Micro-Simulateur is a magazine Xspecifically dedicated to personnal computers simulation software). The Xfirst issue of the new publication must be out before end of February. The Xfirst issue includes articles on Tornado, Tornado Desert Storm, TFX, FS5, X.... I am currently writing papers on SH Mig29 & F18, winnings tactics and Xplanning with SH EBS series and Tracon II compared to professionnal French XAir Traffic Control simulators (I'm currently working on some of those X'real' simulators for the French Air Traffic Control (DGAC/CENA, XDGAC/STNA))... X XChristophe "Rafale" Bonnet X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Tornado: pilot log files encrypted X XHi! X XThe programmer who wrote Tornado's pilot log file interface Xmust be a cryptography fan, because (s)he wants to give us a hard Xtime to manipulate TORNADOs log files. X XHas anybody else tried to break the code? Although I see no Xapplication for it except perhaps promoting pilots (why? use Mr. XdeFault), resurrecting and cloning pilots (you can use backups Xinstead), it's still a nice challenge. X XThe 258 bytes log files basically contain 256 bytes of pilot data Xplus 2 bytes "signature" (the 257th byte is the sum modulo 256 of Xthe preceeding 256 bytes, I'm not sure I already know what the X258th byte is about, maybe a seperate checksum over parts of the Xplaintext). X XThe pilot's data is encoded by first changing the order of bits Xacross the file (first all bits#0, then all bits #2 ...) Xand then XORing the result to a sequence of 256 pseudo-random bytes. X XBecause a different sequence of bytes is used for different log files X(0.log, 1.log ...), you cannot clone a pilot by just copying (say) X1.log to 2.log. However, it's quite easy to extract the different Xsequences for (say) the files (0.log ... 9.log). X XThe question remains: Why was this data encoded in the first place? X XHave fun, XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Help! CIX - who has access? X XHello, X XI read the following article in csipgf-s and I seem to remember that Xsomeone here on the list has CIX-access. If you have CIX-access, could Xyou please drop me a mail? I talked to Jeff and it's ok if you would Xupload the files to onion:/pub/hitech-sim/incomming. X XThanks in advance, X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger Xstenger@zeus.uni-duisburg.de X X--- Begin included article --- X>[...] X>Anyway, I asked a friend who has a CIX account to have a rummage for X>information on DID/TFX.. here's what he said.. X> X>--------------------------------------------------------- X> X>Brian, X> X>There is a cix 'did' conf, devoted to constructive :-) discussion of X>did products. (BTW, cix conferences are not heirarchical X>only two level, the conf itself, then a number of subtopics, one of X>which is inevitably 'files'). X> X>Here's the flist: X> X>AG/ABGV Jan 19 18:46 94 X>Filename Size Description X>=============== ======== ================================================== X> X> X>tfxwcs.zip 780 wcs version 1 configuration file (thanks jdally) X>tfxtips.txt 2155 tips on TFX training missions X>tfxtips2.txt 3177 general tip on TFX X> X>these patches change an installed version of TFX to use the X>Rational Systems 1.95 dos extender, this will fix random crashes X>which disappear when running under a windows dos box X>tfxpat_1.zip 297533 TFX disk version patch X>tfxcd_1.zip 213770 CD version of patch X> X>I get the impression that TFX is not quite perfect, but did seem X>anxious to appease everyone, dropping hints abount further free X>upgrades with possibilities of H2H options, serial/network modes, X>revamped Marauders... (whatever that means), but have no plans X>to distribute more widely than cix community. X> X>-------------------------------------------------------------------- X> X>I think some pressure should be placed on them to distribute the X>patches more widely than CIX.. X> X>Brian X>-- X> X>-- X>Brian Syme, Systems Office, EMail: gxlr07@udcf.gla.ac.uk X>Glasgow University Library. Phone: UK 041-339-8855 x6724 X X--- End included article --- X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 95 ]] END-of-issue095 echo x - issue096 sed 's/^X//' >issue096 << 'END-of-issue096' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I96 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 96 X Wed Feb 2 17:20:14 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Flight Simulator Toolkit slb512@trainserv.fastc.wpafb.af.mil X Re: FST (Flight Simulator Kit) Joerg Stenger From: Andrew.Stevens@comlab.oxford.ac.uk X> Subject: Flight Simulator Toolkit X> X> - Flight models. Pretty sophisticated aerodynamically. I am sure you X> could easily do something much better than Falcon's COMPLEX or HI-FI. X> I was *impressed*. The only notewrothy limitation (I felt) was X> there's no support for parameters to simulate variable geometry. X XThis is the area of FST I'm most interested in, and would like to get a little Xmore detail about it if I could. Does the program tell you what the stability Xand control power characteristics of the aircraft are based on what you draw Xup as the aircraft planform and control surface positions, sizes, and Xdeflection limits? Or, do you tell it what the answers are, so I can make a Xtruck fly? If the former, do the stability characteristics and control power Xvary with AOA and Mach number. Thanks. X X------ XStuart XInternet: slb512%server3@fastc-issu.wpafb.af.mil | When sending messages, X slb512@trainserv.fastc.wpafb.af.mil | please send to both of these XGEnie: S.BUTTS2, Mister Ed, Plane #6333 XCI$: 71553,356 X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: FST (Flight Simulator Kit) X X>more detail about it if I could. Does the program tell you what the Xstability X>and control power characteristics of the aircraft are based on what you draw X>up as the aircraft planform and control surface positions, sizes, and X>deflection limits? Or, do you tell it what the answers are, so I can make a X>truck fly? If the former, do the stability characteristics and control power X>vary with AOA and Mach number. Thanks. X XIn FST there is a strong speration between the 'shape' and the flight- Xmodel. I.e. you can create an object that has the *look* of a truck but Xbehaves like a Cessna. You have two different 'editors' for the shape Xof an object (like planes, buildings, AAA) and it's behavior; e.g. an Xobject of the class plane has a shape and a flight-model, an object of Xthe class building can have supply abilities. XIn the flight-model editor you have influence on practically everything: X- does the gear retract? X- Drag of the gear, airbrake and the airfraime X- pitch and roll inertia X- Stall Angle X- control power X- is it a biplabe? X- wing-factors like dihedral, incidence and efficiency X- etc. X XAn object of the class plane has furthermore a cockpit, which can be edited Xseperately. XYou put all the objects together in the world-editor where you also design Xthe landscape. XIf you can afford the time I can highly recommend this tool (althogh it Xneeds Wind*ws (Argh!)). XThe documentation is slightly poor, IMO - but I seem to be the only one, Xwho loves to read 200+ pages of good documentation ;-). XI bought the tool last friday and althogh I don't have _that_ much time I Xalready managed to create my first primitive flight-sim. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: HIETT@caer.uky.edu XSubject: Chuck Yeager (ultra) ? X XHail Pilots ! X XI read on a recent GUS (Gravis Ultra Sound FAQ) that their exists Xa "NEW IMPROVED" Chuck Yeager's Air COmbat (CYAC). Is this true? XDOes anyone know anything about this? X XI still like the look/feel/ and gameplay of CYAC over almost anything. XOf the 15 flight-sim/games I keep on my machine this one still shines. XThe new MAC version is very nice too and not a port. X XBrent Iverson, what a programmer. X XI have seen nothing in Computer Gaming World (CGW) or anywhere else. XSo any news would be appreciated. X Xcheck shoes ! X X-=John "Sirpo" Hiett=- X Xhiett@caer.uky.edu XCI$:72724,204 XINN:89726 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: mounie@jura.enet.dec.com XSubject: RE:Micro-Simulateur magazine X XHello Christophe, X X Yeaaaahh ! Great. I was bound to Intercept, that I really likes to X but seing that Micro-Simulateur back is good. X X Tell to the editor that he will get my subsciption...at least one 8^) X X Keep it going. X Thierry X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Tornado: pilot log files encrypted X XHI! XJust for the record, a small correction of my previous post on this Xsubject: X X> (the 257th byte is the sum modulo 256 of X>the preceeding 256 bytes, I'm not sure I already know what the X>258th byte is about, X XThe 257th and 258th bytes of a log file are the 16 bit checksum of Xthe previous 256 bytes, where these characters are added as *signed* Xchar. X XHeinz-Bernd Eggenstein X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 96 ]] END-of-issue096 echo x - issue097 sed 's/^X//' >issue097 << 'END-of-issue097' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I97 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 97 X Fri Feb 4 06:26:07 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado spengler@math.uni-frankfurt.de X Re: Flight Simulator Toolkit slb512@trainserv.fastc.wpafb.af.mil X X------------------------------------------------------------ XFrom: spengler@math.uni-frankfurt.de XSubject: Tornado X X XHello Tornado Freaks, X Xhas anyone else noticed this: I upgraded my Tornado Xto European Version 1.0c and now my joystick won't work Xcorrectly. I can recalibrate it, but when I fly it Xdoesn't sense when I want to climb. I can only go down !!! X XHelp is very, very aprreciated.... X X XAndreas X X------------------------------- X XFrom: slb512@trainserv.fastc.wpafb.af.mil (stuart butts/taai/75033) XSubject: Re: Flight Simulator Toolkit X X> From: Joerg Stenger X> Subject: Re: FST (Flight Simulator Kit) X> X> In FST there is a strong speration between the 'shape' and the flight- X> model. I.e. you can create an object that has the *look* of a truck but X> behaves like a Cessna. You have two different 'editors' for the shape X> of an object (like planes, buildings, AAA) and it's behavior; e.g. an X> object of the class plane has a shape and a flight-model, an object of X> the class building can have supply abilities. X XIMHO, that sucks. If you're gonna make this a "Flight Simulator", the shape of Xthe aircraft should have a profound effect on its flight characteristics. This Xsounds like "Fantasy Simulator". I don't want to go through the effort of Xdesigning a particular aircraft shape, just to have the program them tell me, X"Okay, do what you want wrt flight dynamics, this could be a brick for all I Xcare". X X> I bought the tool last friday and althogh I don't have _that_ much time I X> already managed to create my first primitive flight-sim. X XI think I'll pass on this one. Thanks very much for the rundown Joerg. X X------ XStuart XInternet: slb512%server3@fastc-issu.wpafb.af.mil | When sending messages, X slb512@trainserv.fastc.wpafb.af.mil | please send to both of these XGEnie: S.BUTTS2, Mister Ed, Plane #6333 XCI$: 71553,356 X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 97 ]] END-of-issue097 echo x - issue098 sed 's/^X//' >issue098 << 'END-of-issue098' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I98 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 98 X Mon Feb 7 06:45:19 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Re: Flight Simulator Toolkit Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: Flight Simulator Toolkit X XStuart wrote: X X> IMHO, that sucks. If you're gonna make this a "Flight Simulator", the shape of X> the aircraft should have a profound effect on its flight characteristics. This X> sounds like "Fantasy Simulator". I don't want to go through the effort of X> designing a particular aircraft shape, just to have the program them tell me, X> "Okay, do what you want wrt flight dynamics, this could be a brick for all I X> care". X XWithout having the intention of starting a thread I have to disagree with you. XOf course you are right in the relationship of shape and flight charactaris- Xtics of *real* ACs. XBut what is more essential for a good flight-*sim*? The shape of the AC you Xare flying or the flight-model? XI prefer to have an exact flight-model because I 'sit' *in* the plane Xand don't look at it from the outside while I'm flying. XFor me it's more important that the reactions of the plane to my stick- Xmovements are modelled correctly. XOf course it would be nice if the shape would fit to the flight-model. But XI'm afraid, that I'd to study rather aircraft- than mechanical engeneering for Xdesigning somthing that can actually leave the ground (although I'm fighting Xright now with Bernoulli and Stokes ;-). X X> I think I'll pass on this one. Thanks very much for the rundown Joerg. X XI can imagine, that someone who's profession has something to do with Xaircraft-design might be disappointed by FST. Also if someone expects Xto be able to create something like Tornado or Falcon3 he will have a bad Xsurprise. XIf you want to design something like MS-FS, FST could be the right tool for Xthis. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X XPS: Maybe a discussion about our points of view wouldn't be too bad X (it would bring some life back to this list ;-). X So what about a few opinions from the rest of the world? X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: slb512@trainserv.fastc.wpafb.af.mil (stuart butts/taai/75033) XSubject: Re: Flight Simulator Toolkit X X> From: Joerg Stenger X> X> Without having the intention of starting a thread I have to disagree with you. X> Of course you are right in the relationship of shape and flight charactaris- X> tics of *real* ACs. X> But what is more essential for a good flight-*sim*? The shape of the AC you X> are flying or the flight-model? X> I prefer to have an exact flight-model because I 'sit' *in* the plane X> and don't look at it from the outside while I'm flying. X> For me it's more important that the reactions of the plane to my stick- X> movements are modelled correctly. X XThat's my whole point though. They have already limited you to what they think Xa flight dynamics model entails, irregardless of the aircraft's physical Xattributes. They do not calculate the aerodynamic stability and control Xderivatives based on the aircraft's configuration. In the real world, you don't Xhave an accurate flight model until you get these right. They don't even appear Xto mention these, they just assume some lower order equaivalent system. And Xbesides that, what you listed as being available for the flight model is a Xlittle weak in my opinion even for a lower order systems model. X X> Of course it would be nice if the shape would fit to the flight-model. But X> I'm afraid, that I'd to study rather aircraft- than mechanical engeneering for X> designing somthing that can actually leave the ground (although I'm fighting X> right now with Bernoulli and Stokes ;-). X XThat's not mechanical engineering that tells you how to sweep the wing to get Xthe right cruise performace, how big must the vertical tail be to keep it Xdirectionally stable at Mach 2, etc., that's aero eng. something they left out Xof this product apparently. X X> I can imagine, that someone who's profession has something to do with X> aircraft-design might be disappointed by FST. X XExactly. :) X XI'm glad you enjoy it, I hate seeing people get stuff they don't like, and its Xfor that reason that I thank you very much for filling us in, 'cause I'm sure XI wouldn't like FST. :) X X------ XStuart XInternet: slb512%server3@fastc-issu.wpafb.af.mil | When sending messages, X slb512@trainserv.fastc.wpafb.af.mil | please send to both of these XGEnie: S.BUTTS2, Mister Ed, Plane #6333 XCI$: 71553,356 X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: jay.lee@msbbs.mn.org (Jay Lee) XSubject: FST X X X A couple of questions about the Flight Sim Toolkit: You can place X'objects' on the 'ground' (buildings, whatnot), do you have the option of Xsculpting the terrain? Can you 'build' mountains, 'dig' canyons, rivers, etc? X X Will the sims generated run stand-alone without the full FST software? XIf so, would someone upload an example of a created sim? X X Jay X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: FST X XJay Lee asked X X> A couple of questions about the Flight Sim Toolkit: X> [can] You can place 'objects' on the 'ground' (buildings, whatnot), XYes. X X> do you have the option of culpting the terrain? X> Can you 'build' mountains, 'dig' canyons, rivers, etc? XYes, too ;-) X X Andrew Stevens already wrote an excellent preview in GameBytes #16 about XFST; you can also find there an interview with Simis (the company that Xwrote FST). X X My intention is to give a view behind the program. I admit that the Xfollowing will be a bit theoretical but you might recognize the abilities XFST gives you. X X The idea behind FST is very simple: you have a 'world' and in this world Xyou have objects that have certain properties; the properties an object Xcan have are determined by the class the object belongs to. I (coding a lot Xin C++) recognized immediately the object-orientated concept behind that. X X If I had to write a class-hirachy for FST I would do it the following way X(I won't use C++-syntax): X Xclass Base: contains the coordinates and orientation of an object Xclass Shape: contains the shape of an object Xclass FlightModel: contains the flight-model of an object X XThese are the base classes you need to design a flight-simulator. X X So now to your first question: you want to place a building into the Xlandscape. All you have to do is to generate an object that have the Xproperties of class Base and class Shape, i.e. it has the world-coordinates Xyou give to it and the shape of e.g. a Tower - simple, isn't it? X X Well, FST gives you a very comfortable interface to do that. You don't Xneed to know anything about OOP (object-oriented programming), you just Xopen the world editor and click to the point on the map where you want Xto place an object. Then you click on the 'properties'-button and give Xthe object the properties of a fixed ground-building (which is a special Xclass that contains the classes Base and Shape); then you choose the Xshape of that object. If you want, you can also choose which shape that Xobject has if it is destroyed and what is it's 'resitance'-factor, i.e. Xit's ability to resist to attacks. X X If you decide to place an object of the class plane into the world you Xcan choose between two types of planes: civil and military; military is an Xunder-class of civil because it contains all properties of the class civil Xplus additional ones like weapons. X X As I wrote in a previous post an object of the class plane has Xcoordinates, a shape, a flight-model and a cockpit. XA possible class-hirachy for a military plane might look like this: X Xclass FlightModel: contains Base (the flight model influences the X coordinats) Xclass Plane: contains FlightModel, Shape and Cockpit Xclass MilitaryPlane: contains Plane and Weapon X XYou can go deeper and deeper in the class hirachy; for example: X Xclass CockpitShape: contains the background of the cockpit, i.e. what you X see of the cockpit without gauges, as a bitmap in PXC- X format Xclass GaugeBase: contains what is displayed in a gauge (e.g. speed, climb- X rate, etc.) Xclass GaugeShape: contains the coordinates of the gauge in the cockpit and X the shape of the gauge (e.g. has it analouge or digital X readout, is it a lamp, etc.) Xclass Gauge: contains GaugeBase and GaugeShape Xclass Cockpit: contains CockpitShape and Gauge X XOk, enough of my little excursion to OOP ;-) X X When you run FST you get (more or less) comfortable editors to build Xyour own world. X In the shape-editor, a kind of CAD-program, you design the shape of any Xobject; with FST you get a wide variety of pre-designed shapes (planes, Xbuildings, ships, trucks, etc). X In the cockpit-editor you place all gauges to their place; the background Xis a pcx-file so you can edit it with every program that can handle the Xpcx-format. X In the flight-model editor you design the behavior of a flying object; Xfive pre-made flight models from a Camel to a F-16 are included. X X And finally there is the world-editor where you put all together. Here Xyou design the landscape and put the objects to their places. X In the 'landscape-mode' you can rise or lower the terrain; the program Xwill even fractalize areas if you want this (answer to question 2). X In the 'object-mode' you can also assign 'paths' to objects, e.g. design Xa CAP-slope for a hostile AC or the route a tank will take. X X For the record, there is also a color-editor where you determin what color Xis assigned to a certain hight. X X>Will the sims generated run stand-alone without the full FST software? X X Almost. The results of the editors are saved as pure text-files in a X'project' directory. If you want to run a generated sim you have to start Xan executable (fly.exe) which reads all the data-files and links them to Xthe sim. X X>If so, would someone upload an example of a created sim? X X I would like to, but I'm afraid that the fly.exe is copyrighted by XSimis :-( XIf I remeber correctly Andrew wanted to ask Simis, if you are allowed to Xspread your creations. To my disappointment Simis, like most of the UK- Xsoftware companies are not present on the Internet, only on that CIX X(as far as I know it's something like C$ but limeted to the UK). X X As a disclaimer: I don't have any relations to Simis and I don't know Xif they coded FST exactely the way I describe above - that's the way *I* Xwould do it ;-) X XSorry for the lenght of this post but I hope that it is not too boring. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: George Sobala XSubject: Tornado CD X XI see Tornado is now also being offered on CDROM. What does this have Xthat the floppy-based version doesn't? Anyone had any experience? XPresumably (meaning I wish it did, but pigs don't fly) it doesn't Xinclude Desert Storm? X- -- XGeorge Sobala X X------------------------------- X XFrom: fukumori@muraoka.info.waseda.ac.jp XSubject: Tornado DS is out! X XI saw the desert storm add-on for Tornado today. I was in hurry, so I Xdidn't have enough time to check if it will work with Euro/NA/both Xversions. The price was 5000 Yen(about $45). Maybe I should look for Xshops I could buy cheaper... X XHideo Fukumori XWaseda University, Tokyo X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "VOEGTLI@UBECLU.UNIBE.CH" XSubject: Tornado questions X X X X X XHi folks X Xi'm new on this mail list, i'm new on network too, and i'm not speaking english Xwell - so please forgive me breaking unwritten rules of this list or Xmistreating the english language ! X XBut .... all this does not stop me playing TORNADO for almost any minute i'm Xnot busy with counting Krypton-Atoms.I'm very happy that i found the adress of Xthis server in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim. Once logged in, i read almost Xevery mail in volume001, getting a lot of very useful hints, helps and Xloughs... X XBut .... that doesn't prevent me from dying several times a day (thank god it's Xjust a sim !). This forces me to post here the following questions : X X1.) Has anyone of you written down his strategy for some missions in WZ1 or WZ X? i would like to compare them with the ones i made, hoping to realise what Xstrategy leads in which environment to what kind of success or damage... X X2.) Why do nearly always get killed if a Bogeye jumps on my neck ? Even with Xthe 1.0c-Patch i didn't get much chance to outlive the rest of the mission. XWhen i'm lucky enough to shake loose one, two or three missiles then i get shot Xdown by the guns of the Bogeye. X X3.) What's really new in the DS-Demo ??? I just tryed the demo a few days ago, Xfinding that all looks alike, exept the colors (and no trees...). X XThanks in advance for all reactions (and hints on how to post further mails Xcorrect...). X XWatch your six, nine, three, twelf and so one... X X X================================================================== X | Sometimes i think the surest sign that X /o\ intelligent life exist elsewhere in the X_____(_+_)_____ universe, is that none of it has tried X oo oo to contact us... Calvin & Hobbes X Xvoegtli@ubeclu.unibe.ch University of Bern (Switzerland) X=================================================================== X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: Tornado CD X XOn Sat, 5 Feb 1994, George Sobala wrote: X> I see Tornado is now also being offered on CDROM. What does this have X> that the floppy-based version doesn't? Anyone had any experience? X> Presumably (meaning I wish it did, but pigs don't fly) it doesn't X> include Desert Storm? X> -- X> George Sobala X XHmm, my dealer spoke of having orderd the CD-rom but it hasn't arrived Xuntil now. XHe said it would include DS but couldn't tell me the price. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X XPS: If you donate me a CD-rom drive I'm willing to test it for you ;-) X X X X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Re: Tornado DS is out! X XOn Sun, 6 Feb 1994 fukumori@muraoka.info.waseda.ac.jp wrote: X X> I saw the desert storm add-on for Tornado today. I was in hurry, so I X> didn't have enough time to check if it will work with Euro/NA/both X> versions. The price was 5000 Yen(about $45). Maybe I should look for X> shops I could buy cheaper... X XHmm, the european version has been released about 2 weeks ago. I bought it Xfor DM 49,- (about US$ 28). It's a fair price for an additional scenario, XIMHO. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 98 ]] END-of-issue098 echo x - issue099 sed 's/^X//' >issue099 << 'END-of-issue099' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I99 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 99 X Tue Feb 8 06:44:11 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Chuck Yeager's Air Combat Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein (LS2) XSubject: Chuck Yeager's Air Combat X XFollowing much praise of CYAC I read in newsgroups, I Xfinally bought it recently (for DM 20), and I realy LOVE it. X XOK, the graphics are outdated by now, but on the other hand it Xruns extremely smooth on a 486. The manual is great, the views Xare just sensational, and even the flight models for the 6 aircrafts Xyou can fly don't insult someone like me who has used more modern Xsims like TORNADO and Falcon but isn't an expert in aerodynamics. X XWith it's focus on shooting enemies down with guns in dogfights, Xit's a nice contrast to "fire and forget" oriented sims. X XThe only two things that I really do hate about CYAC: X X1) The copy-protection (you have to look up data in the X documentation when starting the sim) X2) If you have 2 joysticks connected, CYAC will always pick the X second (which happens to be my cheapo Quickshot, my first is a CH X Flightst.) X XAny fixes for these problems, especially the second? X XAre there any CYAC mission recorder tapes available anywhere, Xshowing nice dogfights? X XHave fun, XHeinz-Bernd X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Williams, Pete" XSubject: RE: Chuck Yeager's Air Combat X X XHeinz-Bernd writes about CYAC: X X>With it's focus on shooting enemies down with guns in dogfights, X>it's a nice contrast to "fire and forget" oriented sims. X X>The only two things that I really do hate about CYAC: X X>1) The copy-protection (you have to look up data in the X> documentation when starting the sim) X X I think I saw that someone had a workaround for this; but I just ended up Xmaking a chart with the pertinent data and posting it next to the XPC....you're right; it's a pain to keep looking the stuff up. X X X>2) If you have 2 joysticks connected, CYAC will always pick the X> second (which happens to be my cheapo Quickshot, my first is a CH X> Flightst.) X X Well, even worse that that, when I added my RCS pedals and my CH FS-Pro, XCYAC refused even to LOOK at my joystick. It wanted me to disconnect the Xpedals. I finally took the game off my hard drive - it was one of my Xall time favorites. A great game; wish they had come up with a follow Xup....smooth as silk, and fun too. Some of the missions were cast Xiron-bitches, like the one that has you taking off as a whole bunch of 109's Xand 190's come over. I attribute a lot of my fast start in AirWarrior to the Xstuff I did in CYAC (although it drives some AW guys crazy to hear me say it X(you listening, Bob?). X X If you liked CYAC, you'd probably *really* enjoy SVGA AirWarrior on XGEnie; too bad there's not an AW host on the continent... X X XPete Williams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: harrington@belfst.enet.dec.com XSubject: RE: TORNADO CD X XA special edition of Tornado is available on CD, with DESERT STORM included, plus upgrade to release 1.0D. XIf you talk to thhe folks at DI, real nice like, they will 'upgrade' existing users. For a concesionary price, and the return of your original floppies, they will send you Tornado and Desert Storm on CD-ROM (cost less than shop upgrade). XThis gives you the full Tornado & DS, plus a few other fixes etc. XFor me, it took less than 3 days for the whole lot. X XPersonaly, I like the DS add-on. It gives you two new enemy fighters to mix with, some new ground targets, sceenery, and tougher ROE. XI would have liked a bigger theatre, but it seems that this kuwaity theatre is the same size as the other zones, and I never complained about their size. ;-) X XAny one know where I can get my hands on some TM kit?? X XRegards, XJohn 'Evapor8' Harrington X617 Sqn FUAF (Free Ulster Air Force) X;-) X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 99 ]] END-of-issue099 echo x - issue100 sed 's/^X//' >issue100 << 'END-of-issue100' XTo: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XFrom: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReply-To: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XSender: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XReturn-Path: devnull@onion.rain.com (Hitech Simulation Mailing list) XErrors-To: postmaster@onion.rain.com XPrecedence: bulk XBcc: hitech-sim-out XSubject: Hitech Simulation Digest V1 : I100 X X XHitech Simulation Digest Volume 1 : Issue 100 X Wed Feb 9 06:35:15 PST 1994 X Compilation copyright (C) 1994 Jeff Beadles X Send submissions to "hitech-sim@onion.rain.com" X Send add/drop requests to "majordomo@onion.rain.com" X Archives are available via ftp from onion.rain.com [147.28.0.161] X X Today's Topics: X Tornado CDROM updating "Juan A. Hermoso" XSubject: Tornado CDROM updating X XHi, X XDoes somebody know if SH offers the possibility of upgrading existing Xcopies of Tornado to the new CDROM edition? X XIn fact, I asked this same question to SH by e-mail one month ago, but Xas of today I haven't got any answer to my question. X XIf SH does not upgrade Tornado, would it be possible to get the upgrade Xdirectly from DI even if you have the american version? X XHope someone has a positive answer to this, otherwise I will have to start Xwaiting a few months before buying any games in order to get the CDROM Xversion instead of the diskette version :-( X XJuan A. Hermoso Xherj@cernvm.cern.ch X X------------------------------- X XFrom: HIETT@caer.uky.edu XSubject: CYAC, etc. X XHail CYAC pilots ! 8-) X X-as previously mentioned the CYAC (Chuck Yeager...) password at Xstartup just drives me crazy too...my book is shot from thumbing it! XIf some one can help us tired pilots with pooreyesight on this one XI sure would be gratefull. Any ideas would help. Gosh seems like Xtoo many answers to spreadsheet...not like WCI which seems to have about Xa dozen commonly asked questions. At least in LHX (by Brent Iverson too) Xyou could memorize half of them. Brent are you reading this!? Help us out. X X-And again, I saw on the FS mailer that there is a "new" CYAC coming Xout , however I have absolutely nothing else anywhere to confirm this. XI did see the new Mac ver, which is not a port. ANd it may be the only good Xflight sim for the Mac. Beats FS4, Falcon, Aces and RB hands down. ANd XI like them all on the PC. X X-Regarding your JS#2 problem in CYAC. DId you call EA for help? WHat about Xa kludge: put a JS switch on your "Y" cable and just shut off the ofending XJS when in CYAC. X XSomething like a goofy JS problem wouldn't get me to delete CYAC and even Xtho' GEnie AW is cool on-line the home ver stinks in comparison to CYAC. X X XFUN: try the Korean mission...ground attack....Chuck says:"I didn't Xknow those Migs were there !?" of course by now youv'e flamed 'em in your XMustang X Xcheck hat ! X X-= john "sirpo" hiett =- X Xhiett@caer.uky.edu XCI$: 72724,204 XINN: 89726 X X------------------------------- X XFrom: JIMMY@v8.LJ.SD.RAY.COM XSubject: Aviator on Sun wkstation X XHas anybody on the list played Aviator on the SunOS 4.1.x ? It's made Xby Artificial Horizon Inc, $49.95/hostid. It allows multiplane dogfight Xon the ethernet. From the screen shot I got, its texture mapped terrain Xis very nice. Anybody has AHI's info email addr? X--Jimmy Chan X X X------------------------------- X XFrom: "Williams, Pete" XSubject: RE: CYAC, etc. X X X X>-as previously mentioned the CYAC (Chuck Yeager...) password at X>startup just drives me crazy too...my book is shot from thumbing it! X>If some one can help us tired pilots with pooreyesight on this one X>I sure would be gratefull. Any ideas would help. Gosh seems like X>too many answers to spreadsheet... X X Nah, it's not that bad. 18 planes by 7 columns; took me about 20 minutes Xto punch it in - saved about 20 hours thumbing the manual. I'd post it, but Xcopyrights and all..... X X X XPete Williams X X------------------------------- X XFrom: harrington@belfst.enet.dec.com XSubject: TORNADO CD UPGRADE etc. X X XIn response to a couple of people, who asked me for the contact at Di who provided me with the CD-ROM upgrade, here are some details. X XCost to registered users : 14.95 UK pounds XContact: X Miss R.L. Tillotson X Digital Integration Ltd X Watchmore Trade Centre X Watchmore road, X Camberley Surrey X England X GU15 3AJ X XTEL: UK 44-276-684959 XTEL: UK 0276-684959 X ROTW 44-276-684959 XFAX: UK 0276-21541 X ROTW 44-276-21541 X XIn sumary, Tornado is available in the UK on CD-ROM as a stand alone product, and a 'special-edition' with DS included. X XHope this helps. X XRegards, X XJohn 'Evapor8' Harrington X X617 Sqn FUAF X X------------------------------- X XFrom: Joerg Stenger XSubject: Rumors from CES X XHi, X XAs far as I remember some tank-fanatics are on this list. I found in Xa german game-magazin a review of the CES in Las Vegas, in which was Xreported that MicroProse will release a game called 'Across the Rhine'. XIt will be about tank-battles between the Americans and the Germans Xat the end of WWII. It probably won't be released in Germany. X XJoerg "Dancer" Stenger X X X X X------------------------------- X X X[[ End of digest Volume 1 : Issue 100 ]] END-of-issue100 exit